Current Events > Two veteran dart players quit in protest after trans player wins womens contest.

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UnfairRepresent
04/01/24 4:47:29 PM
#1:


Dutch darts authorities Monday confirmed the resignation of two veteran women players after they refused to compete with a transgender woman in the country's national team.

A TRANS darts player has won a women-only contest just days after claiming a title against men. Noa-Lynn van Leuven, 27, triumphed on Saturday in the PDC Womens Series, eight days after beating male rivals in a mixed event, where she scooped the 2,500 pot.

The double win has enraged 18-time Grand Slam tennis champ Martina Navratilova, who said: No male bodies in womens sports please not even in darts.

Martina, who dominated womens tennis in the Seventies and Eighties and won Wimbledon nine times, fumed on X: Again women get the short end of the stick. And it stinks.

Two of Van Leuvens Dutch compatriots have quit their national team in protest after Saturdays win in Wigan, Gtr Manchester.

World number 12 Anca Zijlstra announced she was stepping away with pain in my heart.

And Aileen de Graaf, who is world number two, joined her hours later in vowing to no longer represent the Netherlands.

Zijlstra, 50, posted on Facebook: That moment when youre embarrassed to come out for the Dutch team, because a biological man is playing on the womens team, its time to go.

I have tried to accept this but I cant approve or validate this. I think that in sports there should be an equal and fair playing field. I hope with all my heart and for all women in sports that people come to their senses.

De Graaf, 33, commented: If someone doesnt feel good in the body they were born in, I encourage everyone to change that and be happy. I just dont think its right for a biological man to throw for the women or vice-versa. Its either mixed or not.

Van Leuvens womens triumph included victories over English world number one Beau Greaves and Irelands Katie Sheldon, in the final, to take the 2,000 winners pot.

The Dutch star also beat Fallon Sherrock, who became the first woman to win a PDC World Championships match in 2019.

Van Leuven joined the Womens Series in 2022, a year after transitioning. She believes anger from other players, including long-time English star Deta Hedman, is leading to attempts to get her banned.

World number six Van Leuven said previously: It sucks, but I try not to let it get too much into my head. It is very hard. It has been tough for the last two years.

There are a few trans players, but I guess Im the only one who can throw really good darts, so they want to get rid of me.

Transgender darts players must meet stringent testosterone levels for at least 12 months and cannot change gender identity for at least four years.

PDC boss Matt Porter said last year: Noa-Lynn has qualified by right. She is there on a level footing with every competitor in this sport.

Full Article: https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/26895326/trans-darts-won-womens-event-title-against-men/

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/5/5cf1e746.jpg

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/7/76a8573f.jpg

Feels kinda sus to me to say "You're allowed to play but you're not allowed to win"

If they were against the ruling that she was allowed to play, they should have quit 2 years ago. This just feels like sour grapes.

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ironman2009
04/01/24 4:48:17 PM
#2:


In b4 500

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ClayGuida
04/01/24 4:49:51 PM
#3:


These people are stupid.

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UnfairRepresent
04/01/24 4:51:49 PM
#4:


ironman2009 posted...
In b4 500
I'd be surprised if this hits 70 TBH

No one cares about darts

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HashtagSEP
04/01/24 4:51:50 PM
#5:


Well, you know. Can't have a potential physical advantage in... Darts.

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SaikyoStyle
04/01/24 4:52:00 PM
#6:


Sounds like a skill issue bros.

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Fluttershy
04/01/24 4:52:18 PM
#7:


like it makes a difference throwing fucking darts get outta town

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DipDipDiver
04/01/24 4:52:22 PM
#8:


I get it in sports where physicality gives a clear advantage, but with darts it's literally the one who throws darts the best is the one who fucking wins

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#9
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MabusIncarnate
04/01/24 4:54:34 PM
#10:


Lmao yeah there is SUCH a physical difference in genders for fucking darts.

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MegaTech
04/01/24 4:55:34 PM
#11:


ClayGuida posted...
These people are stupid.


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WizardPowers
04/01/24 4:57:57 PM
#12:


MabusIncarnate posted...
Lmao yeah there is SUCH a physical difference in genders for fucking darts.

I mean we do separate the genders for chess and video games which require no physicality at all

Seems like people in charge and a lot of the public think women are inherently worse at all games, physicality or no

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Enclave
04/01/24 4:58:56 PM
#13:


Oh no, anyways.

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Cemith
04/01/24 4:59:51 PM
#14:


Transphobes gonna phobe

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UnfairRepresent
04/01/24 5:02:37 PM
#15:


WizardPowers posted...
I mean we do separate the genders for chess and video games which require no physicality at all

Seems like people in charge and a lot of the public think women are inherently worse at all games, physicality or no
I mean you say that as if it's arbitrary but the fact is the standards of mens darts, video games and chess is signifcantly higher than the womens.

Up to you if you want to debate the reasons why, but having womens divisions and leagues makes sense. How many Beat'em'up or DOTA tournaments were won by women? How many even had women in the top 20 players?

I don't think "Why do the women even have their own contests!?" is a good takeaway here

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Smackems
04/01/24 5:20:01 PM
#16:


UnfairRepresent posted...
I'd be surprised if this hits 70 TBH

No one cares about darts
Barely anyone here cares about any sport at all

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PaperSplash
04/01/24 5:24:51 PM
#17:


Darts?! Come on...

UnfairRepresent posted...
I mean you say that as if it's arbitrary but the fact is the standards of mens darts, video games and chess is signifcantly higher than the womens.

Up to you if you want to debate the reasons why, but having womens divisions and leagues makes sense. How many Beat'em'up or DOTA tournaments were won by women? How many even had women in the top 20 players?

I don't think "Why do the women even have their own contests!?" is a good takeaway here
I can't speak for women themselves as I'm not one but in terms of initial takeaway I'd have to agree with WizardPowers that it sends the message that women are inherently worse.
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bobspacethespacecow
04/01/24 5:25:14 PM
#18:


brother it's darts

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BtCV
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TheDeadMoon
04/01/24 5:31:24 PM
#19:


WizardPowers posted...
I mean we do separate the genders for chess and video games which require no physicality at all

Seems like people in charge and a lot of the public think women are inherently worse at all games, physicality or no

At least for chess, there is no men's league, its open to all. There is only women's only leagues to try to attract more women to the game.

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LSGW_Zephyra
04/01/24 5:35:37 PM
#20:


WizardPowers posted...
I mean we do separate the genders for chess and video games which require no physicality at all

Because men dominate those sports by sheer numerical superiority, you wouldn't see as many top tier women competitors otherwise so it helps to even the playing field a bit and draw more women in. But it's not like women don't compete with men in those fields from time to time


Seems like people in charge and a lot of the public think women are inherently worse at all games, physicality or no

Depressing but true. It's just sexism

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LSGW_Zephyra
04/01/24 5:36:40 PM
#21:


UnfairRepresent posted...
I mean you say that as if it's arbitrary but the fact is the standards of mens darts, video games and chess is signifcantly higher than the womens.

Up to you if you want to debate the reasons why, but having womens divisions and leagues makes sense. How many Beat'em'up or DOTA tournaments were won by women? How many even had women in the top 20 players?

I don't think "Why do the women even have their own contests!?" is a good takeaway here

We know the answer though. It's cultural.

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Enclave
04/01/24 5:37:02 PM
#22:


There's a lot of guys who think that women just can't compete in chess, it's ridiculous really.

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Torgo
04/01/24 5:38:24 PM
#23:


UnfairRepresent posted...
I mean you say that as if it's arbitrary but the fact is the standards of mens darts, video games and chess is signifcantly higher than the womens.

Is that because men's brains are superior, or because men have been socialized and marketed to take up these kinds of hobbies and women are not - so therefore the pool of competitors among men is much, much larger and likely to be have a larger number of skilled competitors?

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bobspacethespacecow
04/01/24 5:38:45 PM
#24:


there are darts and billiards games in every shitty bar across the world and they're all coed

I've had my ass handed to me by "real women" in chess, darts, and billiards in several bars, and I promise you that sexual physicality has nothing to do with it

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BtCV
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ironman2009
04/01/24 5:40:56 PM
#25:


Magnus Carlsen is clapping anybody's cheeks.

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Jiek_Fafn
04/01/24 5:48:02 PM
#26:


https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/b/bf5c4dcf.jpg
I would've suspected more, but still too many

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Rosstin316
04/01/24 5:49:12 PM
#27:


I can at least understand wanting to ban transgender women from physical athletic womens sports, but fucking DARTS? What possible physical advantage do they have?

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#29
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ironman2009
04/01/24 5:52:28 PM
#30:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


she did beat him. 9/10 games magnus wins or they draw.

eh, maybe 8/10


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Anteaterking
04/01/24 5:57:02 PM
#31:


Torgo posted...
Is that because men's brains are superior, or because men have been socialized and marketed to take up these kinds of hobbies and women are not - so therefore the pool of competitors among men is much, much larger and likely to be have a larger number of skilled competitors?

It also takes time. Looking at the top of these games, we're not seeing the results of gender norms in the present, we're seeing the results of gender norms ~15 years ago. So even if you thought that everything was solved and there were no problems left (which I would disagree with anyway), you still wouldn't see gender parity in chess for a decade.

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UnfairRepresent
04/01/24 5:58:27 PM
#32:


I think the users passionately trying to turn this topic into "There shouldn't be a womens league/competition!" is peak CE.

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#33
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LonelyStoner
04/01/24 6:01:38 PM
#34:


Fluttershy posted...
like it makes a difference throwing fucking darts get outta town
This lmfao

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#35
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#36
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#37
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Fenriswolf
04/01/24 6:19:29 PM
#38:


Sad to see Martina Navratilova turning out to be a TERF, especially considering that she is a lesbian herself.

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bnui_ransder
04/01/24 6:19:53 PM
#39:


It boils down to making an excuse as to why they lost

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ironman2009
04/01/24 6:30:52 PM
#40:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


she's one of my favorite players to listen to commentate on tournaments. her and anish giri bring a lot to that side of the game too.

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MrToothHasYou
04/01/24 6:36:55 PM
#41:


Maybe these dumbasses should just, I dont know, throw darts better?

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CyborgSage00x0
04/01/24 6:41:33 PM
#42:


ITT - people know know men have vastly superior hand-eye coordination and overall accuracy is basically all things compared to women. Secondary-sex characteristics are a thing.

So yes, men do have a natural advantage in darts.

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bobspacethespacecow
04/01/24 6:47:59 PM
#43:


idk man if i lost a darts game and then, rather than graciously taking the L, started whining about how the girl who beat me has physiological differences and therefore it is unfair to make us compete together, i'd be laughed out of the bar

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BtCV
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Babidi123
04/01/24 6:49:20 PM
#44:


HashtagSEP posted...
Well, you know. Can't have a potential physical advantage in... Darts.

Lmao first thing I thought of

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UnfairRepresent
04/01/24 6:56:12 PM
#45:


bobspacethespacecow posted...
idk man if i lost a darts game and then, rather than graciously taking the L, started whining about how the girl who beat me has physiological differences and therefore it is unfair to make us compete together, i'd be laughed out of the bar
wut

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Kradek
04/01/24 6:56:13 PM
#46:


UnfairRepresent posted...
I'd be surprised if this hits 70 TBH

No one cares about darts

That may be, however arguing over transpeople in sports is usually an easy 200+ thread.

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#47
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Irony
04/01/24 7:15:47 PM
#48:


Darts isn't a sport

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CommonStar
04/01/24 7:17:01 PM
#49:


Good, they should leave darts forever then.

That's just a skill issue.
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Mistere_Man
04/01/24 7:23:18 PM
#50:


MabusIncarnate posted...
Lmao yeah there is SUCH a physical difference in genders for fucking darts.

This. I mean I could see the possible idea of complaining if it was something like powerlifting, but darts?

Don't get me wrong some dart players are amazing, but I dont see how testosterone would effect hand eye coordination. I could be mistaken though.

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