Current Events > Democracy might come to an end because some dudes can't get p****

(+) Yeah! (+)

Also the super entitled women are mostly complaining online or to some annoyed manager.

But some of the super entitled men have political power, and others are murdering women because over the 'slight' of not give them what they want.

What's that? "Men get murdered too?" Oh absolutely, but as long as it's not a 10/10 that says she just wants to have sex with me despite never having met me in person, I don't have to be concerned. It is extraordinarily unlikely I'll be hurt for politely declining the advances of a woman.

How many women can claim the same experience? Probably a lot less than men.

pezzicle posted...

fault and responsibility are two different things

it might not be (entirely) your fault that you are having a hard time finding a partner but it sure as shit is your responsibility to change that if you want to

expecting someone else to just come along and take pity on you and start dating you because "youre having a hard time finding someone" is not going to happen

And if it does, you need to marry her

NoxObscuras posted...

Because most women aren't going around complaining that "I can't get laid and it's the male's fault" the way these bitter guys are. Men don't owe women anything either, but that kind of entitlement is overwhelming coming from men. That's why the advice is usually aimed towards men

I "like" it when people talk about how the 1900s was a magical era where no one got worked up or offended.

Barring cases where such media had to hold back and such, I'd think PDA from interracial or gay couples being met with arrest does count as being offended.

Umbreon posted...

Honestly though here's the thing: What's your environment like and where are you looking for a date?

Cause I only hear of the "Where have all the GOOD men gone?! Men ain't shit!" talk one place. Online and usually by women who unironically call themselves "divas" or "princesses".

Then I go outside and see a lot more level minded women. Plenty of women like that out there, stop following the Instagram girls who "can't stand drama" but can't stop being in the middle of it.

I've heard the "men ain't shit" talk since middle school. A lot of that is probably posturing (acting like you're too good for most people implies you're very valuable) but it's vastly more accepted than suggesting women owe you sex, which is probably why I've never actually heard that offline (or, again, even off 4chan). I know irl women (and everyone else) is way better behaved in general though. I rarely hear diva shit from women who are 30+ irl, tbf.

The 90s were great.

Of course I was also a kid so my memory of the 90s are "Man all these games and cartoons and school years without being shot at are great!"

Talking off the nostalgia goggles tells me "Oh right, we still treated gay people poorly didn't we?" among other things.

Umbreon posted...

"Where is that going? Not in here!"

XD

I like how she points to her mouth lol

this is why i said "go to therapy"

most men who are stuck in this way of thinking have low self esteem and are entrenched in inner shame

shockthemonkey posted...

No one is helping me out of the ditch that I just said its fine that Im in because I dont want to change anyway because I was raised in a way that makes me not as attractive as I want to be.

Values taught in your formative years often blend into who you fundamentally are.

pezzicle posted...

youre not actually saying anything. you are making a statement without providing any specific examples of how that statement is true

Modern men have been raised with more passive traits than previous generations. That highly complicates their dating prospects.

Umbreon posted...

What's that? "Men get murdered too?" Oh absolutely, but as long as it's not a 10/10 that says she just wants to have sex with me despite never having met me in person, I don't have to be concerned. It is extraordinarily unlikely I'll be hurt for politely declining the advances of a woman.

Yeah.

1. It would help if such concerns weren't made to seem like "We have it bad so that means blacks, women, gays, trans and so on aren't discriminated against (much).".

2. And if one doesn't take concern about discrimination until being on the receiving end? Again, I think people need to consider that apathy is just as concerning as actually committing such.

Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

I rarely hear diva s*** from women who are 30+ irl, tbf.

probably why rates of sex among those aged like 30+ is way higher than people under, tbh

pezzicle posted...

this is why i said "go to therapy"

most men who are stuck in this way of thinking have low self esteem and are entrenched in inner shame

Oh you meant for my low self-esteem. I thought you meant for my depression. All my therapists were pretty, that's about all I took away from my sessions sadly, I'm still depressed.

SecretBase posted...

Modern men have been raised with more passive traits than previous generations. That highly complicates their dating prospects.

again though. what does this mean. you continue to skate along the surface of what it is you are trying to say and make it my responsibility to infer what you mean

what passive traits? why do those traits complicate their dating prospects?

BloodMoon7 posted...

Oh you meant for my low self-esteem. I thought you meant for my depression. All my therapists were pretty, that's about all I took away from my sessions sadly, I'm still depressed.

go to a male therapist

BewmHedshot posted...

Also I think you're allowed to say pussy now it's not 2013

Also first letter and length is no longer considered a censor bypass.

pezzicle posted...

go to a male therapist

Men make me uncomfortable because I've had bad experiences with them starting with my father who would beat me, belittle me and spread hateful ideas to me towards basically everyone you can be hateful towards.

BloodMoon7 posted...

Men make me uncomfortable because I've had bad experiences with them starting with my father who would beat me, belittle me and spread hateful ideas to me towards basically everyone you can be hateful towards.

yup

and this is very very very likely to be the root of what your issues are RE yourself, self esteem, depression, and dating

im connecting to myself here so it certainly might not track but my relationship with my father was a massive component of my own depression. He wasn't what you were describing, but going to therapy with male therapists allowed me to start to feel comfortable expressing my emotions in front of men

this helped too

https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/I-Dont-Want-to-Talk-About-It/Terrence-Real/9780684835396

pezzicle posted...

yup

and this is very very very likely to be the root of what your issues are RE yourself, self esteem, depression, and dating

Hm maybe. I feel like I have less issues than you'd expect considering that time of my life. Even my depression isn't bad enough that I can't function.

BloodMoon7 posted...

Hm maybe. I feel like I have less issues than you'd expect considering that time of my life. Even my depression isn't bad enough that I can't function.

just so you know i edit'd my post :)

and ya...same lol

I was highly suicidal and completely functioning from about 14-26

pezzicle posted...

weird cause i already addressed how those aren't the same thing

I didn't see that post I guess. Your argument is bunk though because a lot of men don't want a relationship, just sex. I mean certainly if you're talking about a man who thinks they're owed sex, you're already making that concession. The two statements are indeed equivalent because both sides aren't getting what they want, that's the important point. Acting like it's out of line to complain about sexlessness but not a whole echelon of men failing to exist is peak clowntown

I also think one glaring detail being left out of discussions like this is a generational concern - old men focusing on having a financial advantage themselves, often times with a large incentive being to impress the youngest, most attractive women they can get (obviously not the only source of greed among rich old men in America, but a large one), so that wealth gets hoarded among that demographic rather than to a demographic can't afford homes.

So basically, if young men are voting Republican over issues with women their own age, they may want to consider who they're actually helping in this trend. Not to mention the fact they're throwing away any hope for the future of humanity away on the basis of the temporary status of their sex lives.

Sexbots are the answer.
If the Democrats promised billions of dollars in Sexbot research (take away a 3rd of spending from the military), with the eventual aim, as being 'Sexbots For All', they'd get a lot of the disenfranchised voters, votes.

coolguyjimmy posted...

Sexbots are the answer.
If the Democrats promised billions of dollars in Sexbot research (take away a 3rd of spending from the military), with the eventual aim, as being 'Sexbots For All', they'd get a lot of the disenfranchised voters, votes.

I'd declare undying loyalty if someone promised me this.

Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

I didn't see that post I guess. Your argument is bunk though because a lot of men don't want a relationship, just sex. I mean certainly if you're talking about a man who thinks they're owed sex, you're already making that concession. The two statements are indeed equivalent because both sides aren't getting what they want, that's the important point. Acting like it's out of line to complain about sexlessness but not a whole echelon of men failing to exist is peak clowntown

you seem to have lost the plot

your entire point was that women feel like they are "owed" something RE a lifestyle. I said women participate in that while men simply want sex because they exist.

most women aren't expecting a man to just give them a lifestyle without putting any effort into it

you seem to be engaging with this in some weird capitalistic exchange where men get sex for providing women money

not all relationships are a sex work exchange

@LoZguy709

So basically, if young men are voting Republican over issues with women their own age, they may want to consider who they're actually helping in this trend. Not to mention the fact they're throwing away any hope for the future of humanity away on the basis of the temporary status of their sex lives.

Yeah as I said a post ago, apathy being as bad as direct discrimination. Victim blaming in cases also where a guy charged with (attempted) rape/assault is definitely guilty without doubt.

I somethings think they are as bad as the offender. Maybe even wishing they could do such, but settle for meek support.

Even if not, yeah it doesn't really help to boast about say lack of direct sexism if you don't evem throw shade at those who do.

coolguyjimmy posted...

Sexbots are the answer.
If the Democrats promised billions of dollars in Sexbot research (take away a 3rd of spending from the military), with the eventual aim, as being 'Sexbots For All', they'd get a lot of the disenfranchised voters, votes.

I'm for the "solution to this is technology".

LoZguy709 posted...

I also think one glaring detail being left out of discussions like this is a generational concern - old men focusing on having a financial advantage themselves, often times with a large incentive being to impress the youngest, most attractive women they can get (obviously not the only source of greed among rich old men in America, but a large one), so that wealth gets hoarded among that demographic rather than to a demographic can't afford homes.

Yeah that's a great point actually, and another reason acting like men are failing is ridiculous. Older guys had a decade+ head start to establish themselves, it's not actually possible to compete with that.

Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

Yeah that's a great point actually, and another reason acting like men are failing is ridiculous. Older guys had a decade+ head start to establish themselves, it's not actually possible to compete with that.

you really seem to think that men just....buy women

Antiyonder posted...

@LoZguy709

Yeah as I said a post ago, apathy being as bad as direct discrimination. Victim blaming in cases also where a guy charged with (attempted) rape/assault is definitely guilty without doubt.

I somethings think they are as bad as the offender. Maybe even wishing they could do such, but settle for meek support.

Even if not, yeah it doesn't really help to boast about say lack of direct sexism if you don't evem throw shade at those who do.

Are you saying people that turn a blind eye toward atrocities are as bad as the people committing them? Because I definitely disagree with that, even if I believe both are problems society should address.

I can feel a little bad for men being duped by other men pushing red-pill agendas so they can fight to uphold the status quo. I may look down on them all, but one group could be better with maybe just a bit more understanding of all the factors going into generational issues instead of blaming everything on women the same age.

pezzicle posted...

again though. what does this mean. you continue to skate along the surface of what it is you are trying to say and make it my responsibility to infer what you mean

what passive traits? why do those traits complicate their dating prospects?

I'll try to list some:

Lack of gender conformity - They're taught that you should stay true to yourself regardless of society's gender expectations, and they shouldn't generalize women based prejudice either. That's fine for many people, but some men's genuine nature is so far from traditional masculinity that it's impossible for them to still attract women this way. They are passive and timid to the core, do not approach women or escalate anything with them, and because they were told "women aren't all the same" that surely there are more assertive women out there for them who prefer to take the lead in dating, when that is often just not the case.

Reluctance to sexualize - They're taught not to respect women as people and not sexually objecify them, lest they be shallow and creely. This is fine if you don't take it to the literal extreme, but some guys follow the advice to the letter and just don't flirt with women ever and only ever try to get intimately involved with friends they've spent ages getting to know as people, even though many women only develop that type of chemistry with men who spark it early.

Willingness to submit - They're taught that women just want a nice guy, instead of all those cruel guys preying upon them. That's fine for guys who are nice and have other traits that actually do attract women, but many focus all their efforts on simply being well-behaved and adhering to everything women directly request, only to find that despite this literally no women want to date them, and some are dating men who outright mistreat them instead. They were not taught that boring and submissive men are often at the back of the line regarding who women actually want to be with, even behind actual bad men who nevertheless are bold/tough/exciting/etc.

A straight guy molded in this way is now completely sexually inoperative and is going to bristle at being told he need to accomodate women even more after he already ruined his social life trying to appease them to begin with.

pezzicle posted...

your entire point was that women feel like they are "owed" something RE a lifestyle. I said women participate in that while men simply want sex because they exist.

No, that wasn't my point at all. My point was only that there's a narrative that there's a "men feeling entitled to sex" epidemic, meanwhile women wanting xyz from men is never framed the same way. That's always totally cool and reasonable.

pezzicle posted...

you really seem to think that men just....buy women

Are you denying that women find wealth attractive?

pezzicle posted...

you really seem to think that men just....buy women

It's a big part of why generations are not settling in and starting families like their parents, which totally does spill over into the dating world. Most the money in this country belongs to old ass men who have no intention of starting families anytime soon, nor would they even be able to live to support them. And while many people date for reasons other than to start a family, in past generations, that has been a huge reason why so many women ever enter into the dating world.

pezzicle posted...

not all relationships are a sex work exchange

Sort of reminds me of an old thing I remember seeing. Presented marriage as just that. Qife not putting out? Buy her fewer dresses, take her on cheaper vacations, show her who runs the house.

And if sex work exchange is all someone wants then maybe we should do something to make that more accessible.

GranAures posted...

And if sex work exchange is all someone wants then maybe we should do something to make that more accessible.

What another great way to empower old rich men in this country!

SecretBase posted...

but some men's genuine nature is so far from traditional masculinity that it's impossible for them to still attract women this way. They are passive and timid to the core, do not approach women or escalate anything with them,

passivity is a communication tactic that is learned though. it isn't innate

SecretBase posted...

but some guys follow the advice to the letter and just don't flirt with women ever and only ever try to get intimately involved with friends they've spent ages getting to know as people

sorry but this sounds like you think that some men don't flirt with women ever because they are told not to sexualize them. i'd argue it's because they have low self esteem and are terrified of rejection. that's what i've noticed

SecretBase posted...

Willingness to submit - They're taught that women just want a nice guy

being nice isn't the same as being passive and lacking boundaries

Yes, we know LoZ, you consider the entire practice dangerous and predatory. We don't need to get into it again.

That is still the easiest solution for anybody who just wants sex but not a relationship.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Did you even read the quote chain? I said older men have an advantage because of their likelihood of being more wealthy and he responded by strawmanning that into me saying men buy women. It was fucking silly and you're silly for defending it.

Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

My point was only that there's a narrative that there's a "men feeling entitled to sex" epidemic

who said it was an epidemic?

Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

meanwhile women wanting xyz from men is never framed the same way

again, i addressed this, which for some reason you seem to be ignoring.

Men who feel entitled to sex feel entitled to sex for simply existing. They feel that they should get sex from women simply because.

Women who want xyz from men in the context of a relationship. Not in the context of simply sex. What are women expressing that they are "entitled to" when it comes to sex? Consent? someone they are attracted to? It's literally the exact same expectation that men have. And if it isn't, i dont know why you or anyone would take that female seriously. Why would you spend any time engaging with a woman who has a laundry list of shit you need to do/have/be in order to fuck you.

Women want to date a man with xyz because they want to form a lasting partnership with someone who can help to take care of them, their potential children, their home, etc. And women who do have extremely toxic ideas of what they should be getting from a man without putting any effort into the relationship are 100% ridiculed just as a man would be

Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

Are you denying that women find wealth attractive?

are you denying that men don't? Finding something attractive doesn't mean the entire dance of sex or forming a lasting relationship with someone is centered around that thing

SecretBase posted...

Willingness to submit - They're taught that women just want a nice guy, instead of all those cruel guys preying upon them. That's fine for guys who are nice and have other traits that actually do attract women, but many focus all their efforts on simply being well-behaved and adhering to everything women directly request, only to find that despite this literally no women want to date them, and some are dating men who outright mistreat them instead. They were not taught that boring and submissive men are often at the back of the line regarding who women actually want to be with, even behind actual bad men who nevertheless are bold/tough/exciting/etc.

Or it boils down to people upset cause "I'm treating a girl with basic human decency! Reward me for it!!".

If nothing else, an honest jerk is preferable than the one who tries to hide the fact.

LoZguy709 posted...

Are you saying people that turn a blind eye toward atrocities are as bad as the people committing them? Because I definitely disagree with that, even if I believe both are problems society should address.

Maybe not. It's hard not to feel that way though when an apathetic person pats themselves on the back and declaring that since they don't behave in sexist ways, they are beyond critique or the need to improve.

I mean if a person feels like they can't be bothered to care, then they should apply that to shade thrown at them at least.

Giblet_Enjoyer posted...

Did you even read the quote chain? I said older men have an advantage because of their likelihood of being more wealthy and he responded by strawmanning that into me saying men buy women. It was fucking silly and you're silly for defending it.

So um...

That quote asked if you think men just straight up buy women. Your response wasn't a rejection of that, as you asked if pezz was denying whatever or not women find wealth attractive.

That doesn't give off a "You're being silly" tone. It comes off a lot more like you're trying to suggest that it's true. If you thought that statement was foolish, you did a poor job establishing it.

GranAures posted...

Yes, we know LoZ, you consider the entire practice dangerous and predatory. We don't need to get into it again.

Haha ok I get it and we don't have to speculate on the long term problems it's bound to have for currently young generations.

Antiyonder posted...

Maybe not. It's hard not to feel that way though when an apathetic person pats themselves on the back and declaring that since they don't behave in sexist ways, they are beyond critique or the need to improve.

I mean if a person feels like they can't be bothered to care, then they should apply that to shade thrown at them at least.

I think that many apathetic people are exhausted by all the arguments thrown at them about how to think, but they can still be reached and sometimes really do have good intentions.

Antiyonder posted...

Or it boils down to people upset cause "I'm treating a girl with basic human decency! Reward me for it!!".

Yeah, many self-described "nice guys" are exactly like this. "I'm being super nice, why won't you sex me?"
pezzicle posted...

Men who feel entitled to sex feel entitled to sex for simply existing. They feel that they should get sex from women simply because.

And that sex should be with a 10/10 super subservient virgin. Or if not exactly "simply because" then because they put on the basic social airs for 5 seconds and show their real face when that doesn't work.

Umbreon posted...

So um...

That quote asked if you think men just straight up buy women. Your response wasn't a rejection of that, as you asked if pezz was denying whatever or not women find wealth attractive.

That doesn't give off a "You're being silly" tone. It comes off a lot more like you're trying to suggest that it's true. If you thought that statement was foolish, you did a poor job establishing it.

ding ding ding

SecretBase posted...

Willingness to submit - They're taught that women just want a nice guy, instead of all those cruel guys preying upon them. That's fine for guys who are nice and have other traits that actually do attract women, but many focus all their efforts on simply being well-behaved and adhering to everything women directly request,

like this isn't "being nice"

this is being a pushover and lacking boundaries.

work on being assertive

LoZguy709 posted...

Haha ok I get it and we don't have to speculate on the long term problems it's bound to have for currently young generations.

No, more like we've already been through it, and we are not changing the other's mind so it's a waste of space to go through that song and dance again.