Current Events > Israel/Palestina War 12: Attacking the worlds biggest refugee camp

(+) Yeah! (+)

Trumble posted...

Defund the countries that fund Hamas... does that include Israel itself?

Now you're getting it!

SayHeyyShohei posted...

Go to where the actual Hamas leaders are hiding (hint: they aren't in Palestine!), kill them, and defund the countries that fund Hamas.

IDF is allegedly the best military in the world (behind the US of course! /s) and they should be able to do this easily if they actually wanted the war to end.

There's also past events when the IDF did take their time to perform surgical and covert strikes against adversaries around the world. Such as after the Munich murders. The Israeli shills acting like the only course of action for Israel to commit is invasion, occupation, total infrastructure destruction, genocide and ethnic cleansing so blatant that it turns the world against them are really not thinking too hard about it and likely just don't see Palestinians as people compared to Israelis.

SayHeyyShohei posted...

Go to where the actual Hamas leaders are hiding (hint: they aren't in Palestine!), kill them, and defund the countries that fund Hamas.

There is one hiding in Gaza and they havent been able to get him as far as we know.

And its not like Israels going to go into Qatar and commit blatant assassination on foreign soil at a time when they actually were trying to improve relations with other Arab countries. They tried assassinating Kaled Meshall years ago and Jordan forced them to call it off once they botched it.

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20200925-remembering-israels-botched-attempt-to-assassinate-khaled-meshaal/amp/

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

And its not like Israels going to go into Qatar and commit blatant assassination on foreign soil at a time when they actually were trying to improve relations with other Arab countries.

Instead they're *just* committing genocide on foreign soil which I'm sure is going to improve relations with Arab countries. The way you've phrased this tells me that israel doesn't care about its actions (even if that action is genocide) unless they might face negative consequences and also that they think Palestine belongs to israel and thus doesn't count as foreign soil.

1337toothbrush posted...

Instead they're *just* committing genocide on foreign soil which I'm sure is going to improve relations with Arab countries. The way you've phrased this tells me that israel doesn't care about its actions (even if that action is genocide) unless they might face negative consequences and also that they think Palestine belongs to israel and thus doesn't count as foreign soil.

The way I phrased a post on gamefaqs tells you that a country does something? Like in the grand scheme of things of this conflict, I matter at all?

Im literally just a Jewish dad in Maryland with a one year old who literally either works to pay the bills or is spending time with his daughter, or at home while she naps. And you think I speak for a country six thousand miles away?

FlyEaglesFly not being disingenuous in defense of the IDF challenge (impossible edition)

1337toothbrush posted...

Instead they're *just* committing genocide on foreign soil which I'm sure is going to improve relations with Arab countries. The way you've phrased this tells me that israel doesn't care about its actions (even if that action is genocide) unless they might face negative consequences and also that they think Palestine belongs to israel and thus doesn't count as foreign soil.

Israel did annexed the Golan Heights and showed a new Middle East map in a United Nations meeting that has no Palestine on it.
https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_was_no_such_thing_as_Palestinians

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

The way I phrased a post on gamefaqs tells you that a country does something? Like in the grand scheme of things of this conflict, I matter at all?

Im literally just a Jewish dad in Maryland with a one year old who literally either works to pay the bills or is spending time with his daughter, or at home while she naps. And you think I speak for a country six thousand miles away?

You're trying to explain israel's side and the wording gave me that impression. If it's not israel's attitude, it's certainly yours.

1337toothbrush posted...

You're trying to explain israel's side and the wording gave me that impression. If it's not israel's attitude, it's certainly yours.

Im trying to stand in the way of the constant Israel bashing going on, and to point out that when you are fighting an urban war against terrorists that literally went into peoples houses and shot up the place, decapitating people, pillaging, burning, raping, and taking hostages, your options are limited in terms of how you can fight the war.

That is not the same thing as supporting genocide, no matter how many times you say otherwise.

This isnt a war. Its just a one sided slaughter of people living behind ghetto fences.

MrMolinaro posted...

This isnt a war. Its just a one sided slaughter of people living behind ghetto fences.

Tell that to the families of hostages taken on October 7th, or worse, buried their loved ones because of what happened that day.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Tell that to the families of hostages taken on October 7th, or worse, buried their loved ones because of what happened that day.

This doesn't give israel the license to commit genocide.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Tell that to the families of hostages taken on October 7th, or worse, buried their loved ones because of what happened that day.

October 7 was a terror attack, not an act of war. Since October 7, the casualties suffered by one side are orders of magnitude greater than those suffered by the other. And by Israel's own estimations, most of the people slain in this "war" are civilians.

MrMolinaro posted...

This isnt a war. Its just a one sided slaughter of people living behind ghetto fences.

Sigh. This is modern day warfare in its truest form. Isreal literally declared war. This is warfare so telegraphed that it's inhumane to see happen in our lifetime.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Tell that to the families of hostages taken on October 7th, or worse, buried their loved ones because of what happened that day.

Im far more concerned with the tens of thousands of civilians being slaughtered in refugee camps. Oct 7 was a tragedy, but it doesnt compare to the evils being perpetrated in response.

darkace77450 posted...

October 7 was a terror attack, not an act of war.

When a terrorist attack is perpetrated by the official government entity of a quasi-state, it is both an act of terror and an act of war. One does not preclude the other.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Tell that to the families of hostages taken on October 7th, or worse, buried their loved ones because of what happened that day.

So it sounds like you just want revenge

Instead they're *just* committing genocide on foreign soil which I'm sure is going to improve relations with Arab countries. The way you've phrased this tells me that israel doesn't care about its actions (even if that action is genocide) unless they might face negative consequences and also that they think Palestine belongs to israel and thus doesn't count as foreign soil.

No, they're also doing the exact thing Eagles wants to claim they wouldn't:

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-01-03-2024-fc2394531bef8238e86879dd98ea435b

The chief of Israels Mossad intelligence service vowed Wednesday that the agency would hunt down every Hamas member involved in the Oct. 7 attack on Israel, no matter where they are. His pledge came a day after the deputy head of the Palestinian militant group was killed in a suspected Israeli strike in Beirut.

And yet another assassination in Lebanon:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israeli-drone-attack-kills-2-in-lebanon-one-of-the-deepest-hits-inside-the-country-in-weeks

Israel: "this is our 9/11"
US: "no, don't make the same mistake with us"
Israel: "you know what? I'll make even worse mistake"

Two hostages rescued.
https://www.axios.com/2024/02/12/israel-gaza-hostages-rescue-hamas-idf

Dozens of more people killed.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-strikes-rafah-refugee-camp-22-killed-local-health-officials-say-2024-02-12/

Israels National Public Diplomacy Directorate are running Super Bowl ads
https://twitter.com/IsraelinUSA/status/1756756487815262644

The activist group Know Collective produced one in response to Israels. Omar Suleiman, the president of the Yaqeen Institute for Islamic Research in the US has shared it on his tweet.
https://twitter.com/omarsuleiman504/status/1756849737796313275

MrMolinaro posted...

Im far more concerned with the tens of thousands of civilians being slaughtered in refugee camps. Oct 7 was a tragedy, but it doesnt compare to the evils being perpetrated in response.

Sorry, but I operate in a world where both events should be condemned on their own, instead of dismissing one outright because of the response. What happened on October 7th was a mass murder event comparable to what the Nazis did. It involved the murder of over one thousand people, and was designed to make it impossible for people living in the areas that were attacked to not be able to live there in the future. And every time someone tries to outright dismiss it, Im going to call out the hypocrisy.

It wasnt just a tragedy, it was an atrocity. And the people who did it need to be held accountable. And they are hiding behind hostages and human shields, and some of them are getting fat and rich in Qatar while the people they are supposedly fighting for are getting annihilated. And yet, all you people want to do is deflect attention away from that.

No. You lived in your own world where innocents should die from an atrocity committed by hypocrites who claimed that they want to end atrocity.

Ricemills posted...

Israel: "this is our 9/11"
US: "no, don't make the same mistake with us"
Israel: "you know what? I'll make even worse mistake"

Israel: Also, what happened is worse than the Holocaust.
https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1728029517703200945

Ricemills posted...

Israel: "this is our 9/11"

Proportionally it was something like 8x worse than 9/11

Kibouno posted...

Israel: Also, what happened is worse than the Holocaust.
https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1728029517703200945

What a sicko, Nazis literally put them in the concentration camp and
killed millions of Jews. Tell me which side doing the reminiscence right now.

Shit like this makes me remember a nutjob theory that many Israeli settlers at 1948 are infiltrated by Nazis that escaping the punishment by disguising themselves as the victims, and then the Israeli government are filled by those same people or their descendants. So of course they'll making the same atrocities while downplaying what the Nazis did.

willythemailboy posted...

Proportionally it was something like 8x worse than 9/11

Can we stop with that. I cant stand it when people compare atrocities. The Nuremberg laws created a designation for crimes so heinous that they were beyond comparison. The term is crime against humanity.

Holocaust, 9/11, Slavery, Armenian Genocide, Darfur, October 7th, the raping of Nanking, hell, the destruction of Gaza all demonstrate characteristics of being crimes against humanity. Its not a worse or better or proportion or whatever. At some point, we just have to use the designation and just realize that there is no point in such comparisons, and as Mr. Barkat demonstrated with such a quote, you sound like a moron when you do that.

We can stop with that when Israel stop with their atrocities

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

and was designed to make it impossible for people living in the areas that were attacked to not be able to live there in the future

So when are the people who are having their homes flattened in Gaza going to be able to live there in the future?

OmegaShinkai posted...

So when are the people who are having their homes flattened in Gaza going to be able to live there in the future?

https://www.npr.org/2024/02/09/1229625376/domicide-israel -gaza-palestinians

One of the most staggering statistics to emerge from the war between Israel and the militant group Hamas is this: More than 650,000 residents of Gaza will have no home to return to once Israel completes its military campaign, the United Nations estimates.

That total amounts to nearly 30% of the territory's population. And "many more" will be unable to return home immediately due to damage to infrastructure and the danger of unexploded ordnance, the U.N.'s Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) says.

As of early February, more than 70,000 housing units in Gaza have been destroyed and nearly 300,000 have been damaged, OCHA reports. Taken together, it represents 60% of all housing units in the Gaza Strip.

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/12/israel-gaza-liberal-politicians-starmer-biden

Any and all sympathy I had for Israel is gone. What dey are doing, it makes me sick to think about.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Sorry, but I operate in a world where both events should be condemned on their own,

Right

instead of dismissing one outright because of the response. What happened on October 7th was a mass murder event comparable to what the Nazis did. It involved the murder of over one thousand people, and was designed to make it impossible for people living in the areas that were attacked to not be able to live there in the future. And every time someone tries to outright dismiss it, Im going to call out the hypocrisy.

For someone who says both should be condemned, its really hard to find a quote of of spending any significant time condemning one of them.

It wasnt just a tragedy, it was an atrocity. And the people who did it need to be held accountable. And they are hiding behind hostages and human shields, and some of them are getting fat and rich in Qatar while the people they are supposedly fighting for are getting annihilated. And yet, all you people want to do is deflect attention away from that.

Leveling cities is not the best way to fight terrorism. And its starting to sound like you justify one instead of condemning both.

SHRlKE posted...

I believe Hamas will sabotage any attempts for peace.

My issue is that I don't know how hamas can sabotage anything if it doesn't have the political wherewithal or backing to sabotage anything.

Under a free Palestine, a two-state solution, hamas ceases to exist as any kind of legit (or even pretending to legitimacy) political authority, and will only be a fractured terrorist cell. A shadow of its former self. It's raison d'etre, to free Palestine from Israeli oppression and be sovereign, ceases to exist, and, as a result, so does hamas.

I don't know man. I think a free Palestine is a Palestine that doesn't need, and won't tolerate anymore, hamas.

I mean, a free Palestine got no reason to have a Hamas... on paper.
This conflict has been going on too long and has been too bloody to just end.
A free Palestine is just the first step on the solution, the hate will still exist for a long time and both Hamas and other groups will feed on this hate.
But as time pass, and if Israel starts acting like they are human being and only do surgical strikes on terrorist cells, then peace will slowly come.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Tell that to the families of hostages taken on October 7th, or worse, buried their loved ones because of what happened that day.

Thats seeking revenge and its not the way to go for peace. Its hard to imagine how it feels to lose someone in that way, but cool heads should prevail. Literally the cliched story of good guys turning into villains.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

your options are limited in terms of how you can fight the war

Limited to what? Genocide? C'mon. Even you are better than this by now.

Get better arguments if you're going to keep stanning the same position.

LaLeyenda posted...

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/feb/12/israel-gaza-liberal-politicians-starmer-biden

This is because politicians claim to care or do things for justice, but in reality all they care about is obtaining power and keeping it. That's why I always laugh when, for example, the US government claims they're doing something "for the people" (either in the US or especially outside of it). We need a way to filter out these self-serving people who lack empathy. One major way of doing that would be getting money out of politics. That'll be a challenge since the field of politics is mostly self-regulating.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Tell that to the families of hostages taken on October 7th, or worse, buried their loved ones because of what happened that day.

They probably feel the same as the Palestine families that got their children killed by an Israel battleship when they were playing soccer on the beach, dont you think?

Foppe posted...

They probably feel the same as the Palestine families that got their children killed by an Israel battleship when they were playing soccer on the beach, dont you think?

He doesn't care about Palestinians and how they feel.

DnDer posted...

Limited to what? Genocide? C'mon. Even you are better than this by now.

Get better arguments if you're going to keep stanning the same position.

He's not. I asked him back at the start of this how many bodies of innocent men, women and children needed to be stacked for it to be considered justice. His answer was essentially "however many it takes".

Yes Oct 7th was horrific and wrong. No one here has ever said otherwise. Anyone pretending that Israel hasn't been using it as justification for the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from Gaza that they've always wanted is just deluding themselves at this point. Or worse, they support it.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

and was designed to make it impossible for people living in the areas that were attacked to not be able to live there in the future

Sounds familiar...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/4/463c51b6.jpg

SOURCE: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67565872

this war is atrocious

DnDer posted...

Sounds familiar...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/4/463c51b6.jpg

SOURCE: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67565872

I know that, and I condemn it. Does that refute my point in the slightest? If it were up to me, Gaza would be a second Dubai, an economic powerhouse and valuable trade partner with the west. Not a hub for terrorists.

Also if it were up to me, the Israeli government wouldnt be made up of so many right wing religious hardliners that dont see how their policies created this mess.

Neither of those is my decision. But this war is a series of crimes happening to both sides by both sides with innocents caught in the middle, and it should be possible to talk about one side without immediately going to what about.

Said the guy who always using whataboutism on every chance when Israel being criticized.

https://www.axios.com/2024/02/12/biden-netanyahu-israeli-settler-violence-west-bank

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in his call with President Biden on Sunday protested and criticized Biden's recent executive order that paved the way for sanctions on Israeli settlers involved in attacks against Palestinians in the occupied West Bank, an Israeli official and a source briefed on the call told Axios.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/12/politics/biden-netanyahu-israel-gaza/index.html

President Joe Biden has grown increasingly frustrated behind the scenes with his Israeli counterpart, Benjamin Netanyahu, telling advisers and others that the prime minister is ignoring his advice and obstructing efforts to alleviate the humanitarian crisis in Gaza, according to people familiar with the matter.

Netanyahu is a lot like Trump in that he knows his office is the only thing keeping him out of a courtroom. As soon as this conflict ends, he starts facing consequences for his corruption (hopefully), and so he's going to prolong it as long as he can. That means undermining Biden in the hopes that Trump wins this November and gives him carte blanche to draw the conflict out as long as he can.

Biden for his part, is starting to push back on Israel's ethnic cleansing either because he found his soul, or he's realizing that his support of the butchering of tens of thousands of civilians might cost him votes. Whatever his reason, a stern talking to behind the scenes isn't going to sway Netanyahu. The next step has to be cutting military aid to Israel, and I don't think he's got the backbone to do it.

DnDer posted...

My issue is that I don't know how hamas can sabotage anything if it doesn't have the political wherewithal or backing to sabotage anything.

Under a free Palestine, a two-state solution, hamas ceases to exist as any kind of legit (or even pretending to legitimacy) political authority, and will only be a fractured terrorist cell. A shadow of its former self. It's raison d'etre, to free Palestine from Israeli oppression and be sovereign, ceases to exist, and, as a result, so does hamas.

I don't know man. I think a free Palestine is a Palestine that doesn't need, and won't tolerate anymore, hamas.

Hamas being a terrorist organization can still sabotage peace even if they have no political power right? Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying.

DnDer posted...

My issue is that I don't know how hamas can sabotage anything if it doesn't have the political wherewithal or backing to sabotage anything.

Under a free Palestine, a two-state solution, hamas ceases to exist as any kind of legit (or even pretending to legitimacy) political authority, and will only be a fractured terrorist cell. A shadow of its former self. It's raison d'etre, to free Palestine from Israeli oppression and be sovereign, ceases to exist, and, as a result, so does hamas.

I don't know man. I think a free Palestine is a Palestine that doesn't need, and won't tolerate anymore, hamas.

They're still going to be funded and supplied by Iran. Palestinians aren't going to get rid of them any more than the Israelis are, all it will do is widen their target selection.

Ricemills posted...

Said the guy who always using whataboutism on every chance when Israel being criticized.

Only when one side of the story is being told. Im a two sides to every story type of person, even when I dont like what the other side says. Until it becomes hostile to the point of baseless trolling.

LaLeyenda posted...

The activist group Know Collective produced one in response to Israels. Omar Suleiman, the president of the Yaqeen Institute for Islamic Research in the US has shared it on his tweet.
https://twitter.com/omarsuleiman504/status/1756849737796313275

This was much better.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4463231-biden-netanyahu-ass-report/

President Biden has expressed growing frustrations behind closed doors over Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his refusal to scale back Israels military ambitions in Gaza, according to an NBC News report.

Biden, in private conversations, has said Netanyahu is giving him hell as the White House seeks to broker a cease-fire with the Palestinian militant group Hamas and negotiate a longer-term plan for peace in the Gaza Strip, NBC News reported Monday, citing five people directly familiar with the presidents comments.

Biden reportedly said Netanyahu is impossible to work with and called the Israeli leader an ahole on at least three occasions, according to three of the people who asked they not be named in the report.

Despite the private frustration, the White House has generally offered steadfast support for Israel, a longtime ally of the U.S.

If only we had leverage against Israel, eh, Joe?