Current Events > Elon Musk reacts to Disney's inclusion standards.

(+) Yeah! (+)

LSGW_Zephyra posted...

Their name reminds me of PokemonFanatic44 or whatever their name was. The posting is reminiscent too. But it's too early to tell anything.

Pokemonmaster?

pokeweeb30 posted...

This isnt equality

This is equity, which is a twisted version of equality that favours equal outcomes over equal opportunities.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Man, Elon Musk is, like, really fucking dumb lmao. No way they win this lawsuit, even in a battle of who can pay legal fees longer Disney is going to own his ass.

DnDer posted...

Let me check some history real quick to make sure I've got some facts right...

The Romans brought a lot of black people to England, as early as the second century, when they built Hadrian's Wall, and even had black centurions up there to hold the wall.

Arthur was sixth and seventh centuries, hundreds of years later.

The moors conquered Spain in the 700s, a century after Arthur. They stuck around in Europe through the 1200s (and a little later) before being given the boot.

But just because there was conflict doesn't mean there wasn't commerce or travel.

Robin Hood was during the 1100s. There was plenty of travel to and from the holy land, which meant there was plenty of brown people for the Europeans to encounter.

So... depending on the story you're telling, 80% feels a little high for most period pieces outside a royal family or court setting.

The UK had to have been more diverse than popular media has led us to believe. There's just too much bleed over in cultures and kingdoms throughout history on the continent.

Researching it, you're more right about it than a lot of people probably realize and for the right reasons.

https://ansteorra.org/northkeep/resources/diversity-in-the-historic-and-modern-middle-ages/#:~:text

dioxxys posted...

Big studios like Disney and others already do this.

I wonder when it took effect, because certainly wasnt happening during Black Panther

Its too bad they arent concerned with hiring POTs or... people of talent.

By "do this" do you mean change settings? If so I don't think they did it with any of the previous MCU films either...

JuanCarlos1 posted...

Question is ..what does Elon gain from this? Earn red brownie points?

People who hate him keep clicking on twitter, people who support him keep clicking.

FortuneCookie posted...

If they want to make an animated series based off of Beauty and the Beast, 18th century France is suddenly going to have larger Black and Asian populations because, "If magic beasts and talking teacups can exist, why can't they?" If Belle's best friend is Asian and the royal captain of the guard is Black, I could still accept that this is 18th century France through an idyllic lens. But if you reimagine it so that ethnic French people make up less than 50% of the cast, you might as well set the story in Middle Earth, Eternia, or Hyrule. "French" is an architecture and not an ethnicity.

Things that existed in 18th century France, apparently:

Black people
A magical castle filled with servants who have been turned into talking furniture
Asian people
A prince who was cursed by a witch to turn into a hideous beast unless he can find true love before the last petal falls from his magical rose
A whole town of people who regularly break out into song, in perfect American English, with no accents

Am I getting this right?

So can we assume the source is his ass?

chuds mad itt

FortuneCookie posted...

Disney's heart is in the right place, but I can't say that I'm on board with *every* program having < 50% of the cast be comprised of members of underrepresented groups.

In the short run, it'll lead to tokenism where superfluous characters are added to inflate the numbers. That's no big deal because writers will start finding ways to make characters matter as soon as they're called out on tokenism. What annoys me about the scenario is that it limits the stories that can be told.

If they want to make an animated series based off of Beauty and the Beast, 18th century France is suddenly going to have larger Black and Asian populations because, "If magic beasts and talking teacups can exist, why can't they?" If Belle's best friend is Asian and the royal captain of the guard is Black, I could still accept that this is 18th century France through an idyllic lens. But if you reimagine it so that ethnic French people make up less than 50% of the cast, you might as well set the story in Middle Earth, Eternia, or Hyrule. "French" is an architecture and not an ethnicity.

Or if you wanted a western, you would have two options. The first would be to run the story through a filter of a minority family living in the old west. The other would be to make them all talking animal characters so that more than half of the cast can be comprised of actors from underrepresented groups.

I think it would be better if they mandated that 80% of programs adhered to the < 50% rule. Anything set in the present could mandate inclusivity. Anything placed in a historical setting could be more homogenous, but the number of such stories would be limited to less than 20% (unless it's focusing on an underrepresented group) so that everything isn't an excuse for "a small White town in Kentucky circa 1950," "a predominantly White town in 1880s Texas," "Medieval England with a 90% White cast," etc.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/a/a21b6f71.jpg

LightningThief posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/a/a21b6f71.jpg

That's not what I'm saying at all. The example that I used was that 18th century France wouldn't be more than 50% non-French. If you're mandating more than 50% of the cast be individuals of underrepresented groups, you're going to run into an issue where a historic setting is going to lose all semblance of taking place where the story says it takes place.

Not everything translates to, "I hate minorities."

MrToothHasYou posted...

Things that existed in 18th century France, apparently:

Black people
A magical castle filled with servants who have been turned into talking furniture
Asian people
A prince who was cursed by a witch to turn into a hideous beast unless he can find true love before the last petal falls from his magical rose
A whole town of people who regularly break out into song, in perfect American English, with no accents

Am I getting this right?

I even used the example of giving Belle a best friend who was Asian and having a captain of the royal guard who was Black. And I acknowledged that the original Beauty and the Beast had already gone through a filter of idealism and magic.

It's not anti-diversity to state that some historic settings would not be as diverse as, say, a modern American college.

Tenlaar posted...

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/abc-unveils-ambitious-set-of-inclusion-standards-exclusive-4069409/

That image is in this 2020 article about ABCs inclusion standards.

So not leaked from an anonymous source?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/d/dc033df4.jpg

Always fun when a longtime tag pays out.

Goldice posted...

So not leaked from an anonymous source?

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1685366045899444224

FortuneCookie posted...

That's not what I'm saying at all. The example that I used was that 18th century France wouldn't be more than 50% non-French. If you're mandating more than 50% of the cast be individuals of underrepresented groups, you're going to run into an issue where a historic setting is going to lose all semblance of taking place where the story says it takes place.

Not everything translates to, "I hate minorities."

I even used the example of giving Belle a best friend who was Asian and having a captain of the royal guard who was Black. And I acknowledged that the original Beauty and the Beast had already gone through a filter of idealism and magic.

As we all know, France is historically famous for having magically transformed beasts and talking candlesticks.

Elon is turning out to be the biggest douchebag in the world...

FortuneCookie posted...

Disney's heart is in the right place, but I can't say that I'm on board with *every* program having < 50% of the cast be comprised of members of underrepresented groups.

In the short run, it'll lead to tokenism where superfluous characters are added to inflate the numbers. That's no big deal because writers will start finding ways to make characters matter as soon as they're called out on tokenism. What annoys me about the scenario is that it limits the stories that can be told.

If they want to make an animated series based off of Beauty and the Beast, 18th century France is suddenly going to have larger Black and Asian populations because, "If magic beasts and talking teacups can exist, why can't they?" If Belle's best friend is Asian and the royal captain of the guard is Black, I could still accept that this is 18th century France through an idyllic lens. But if you reimagine it so that ethnic French people make up less than 50% of the cast, you might as well set the story in Middle Earth, Eternia, or Hyrule. "French" is an architecture and not an ethnicity.

Or if you wanted a western, you would have two options. The first would be to run the story through a filter of a minority family living in the old west. The other would be to make them all talking animal characters so that more than half of the cast can be comprised of actors from underrepresented groups.

I think it would be better if they mandated that 80% of programs adhered to the < 50% rule. Anything set in the present could mandate inclusivity. Anything placed in a historical setting could be more homogenous, but the number of such stories would be limited to less than 20% (unless it's focusing on an underrepresented group) so that everything isn't an excuse for "a small White town in Kentucky circa 1950," "a predominantly White town in 1880s Texas," "Medieval England with a 90% White cast," etc.

This isn't as good as your "Lara got a reduction" post, when are you going to top that level of memery and copypasta?

Fuck Elon, generally speaking.

That said... those standards Disney are using DO feel a little... extreme? Off?

I dunno, it feels like the movie-making equivalent of standardized test word problems:

"Guadalupe, Takahashi, DeShawna, and Phil are working on a project together..."

SAlYAN posted...

Fuck Elon, generally speaking.

That said... those standards Disney are using DO feel a little... extreme? Off?

I dunno, it feels like the movie-making equivalent of standardized test word problems:

"Guadalupe, Takahashi, DeShawna, and Phil are working on a project together..."

say it

mario2000 posted...

As we all know, France is historically famous for having magically transformed beasts and talking candlesticks.

That's what the story is about though. You can still have diversity among the human cast members. All I'm saying is that it's not going to feel like 18th century France if less than half of the cast is ethnic French.

Anyway, this is a nothingburger because it's a suggestion and not a full mandate.

mario2000 posted...

say it

Say what? That it feels like tokenism?

I thought that was obvious.

masterpug53 posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/d/dc033df4.jpg

Always fun when a longtime tag pays out.

I get the feeling that "(group identity) fragility" would be bigoted if literally any other group beyond white people were listed there.

FortuneCookie posted...

That's not what I'm saying at all. The example that I used was that 18th century France wouldn't be more than 50% non-French. If you're mandating more than 50% of the cast be individuals of underrepresented groups, you're going to run into an issue where a historic setting is going to lose all semblance of taking place where the story says it takes place.

Not everything translates to, "I hate minorities."

That is what you are saying.

Don't cry to me about accuracy when the story is filled to the brim of inaccuracies to 18th century France.

France didn't have magical castles that turned people into furniture in the 18th century
France didnt have magical witches turning people into furries in the 18th century.
France didnt have magical talking furniture that can break into musical numbers in the 18th century.
A whole town of people speaking American English, no French, and not even an accent was not a thing in the 18th century

You supposedly care about accuracy but quiet about many of the inaccuracies in the story including the few listed above. Yet, you are here crying about accuracy the moment you see non white people.

The story isn't even about France at that. Like you would have some argument if the story was about literally the French.

Corporate diversity from Disney... better than social media Nazis I guess?

I really fucking hate this... I don't want to take a side between shitty employer Disney and shitty employer Elon Musk, but since Disney isn't an open fascist repeating great replacement conspiracies... I'll take their side.

FortuneCookie posted...

I get the feeling that "(group identity) fragility" would be bigoted if literally any other group beyond white people were listed there.

The sad part is that you probably actually think that that's a comeback.

FortuneCookie posted...

That's what the story is about though. You can still have diversity among the human cast members. All I'm saying is that it's not going to feel like 18th century France if less than half of the cast is ethnic French.

Anyway, this is a nothingburger because it's a suggestion and not a full mandate.

Does it matter to the story that it "should feel like 18th century France"?

Take Mulan and change the setting. The story would not work anymore. But Beauty and the Beast? The country has zero bearing on the story itself. You could set it anywhere else and nothing would change.

Man who would have suspected that a white South African with a tiny amount of power and massive privilege born before the 1990s would be so against inclusion.

LightningThief posted...

That is what you are saying.

Don't cry to me about accuracy when the story is filled to the brim of inaccuracies to 18th century France.

France didn't have magical castles that turned people into furniture in the 18th century
France didnt have magical witches turning people into furries in the 18th century.
France didnt have magical talking furniture that can break into musical numbers in the 18th century.
A whole town of people speaking American English, no French, and not even an accent was not a thing in the 18th century

Yet, you are here crying about accuracy the moment you see non white people.

No, it isn't. My own stories that I'm working on have diverse casts -- including a Black lead, an Asian lead, and two LGBTQ leads.

There's a difference between being inclusive and mandating that more than half of the cast be comprised of less than half of the culture in which the setting takes place.

I've even stated that 80% of stories should be comprised of diverse casts.

SAlYAN posted...

Say what? That it feels like tokenism?

I thought that was obvious.

User Since: Apr 2013
Karma: 62
Active Posts: 54

Say it on your main at least, you coward

mario2000 posted...

Does it matter to the story that it "should feel like 18th century France"?

Take Mulan and change the setting. The story would not work anymore. But Beauty and the Beast? The country has zero bearing on the story itself. You could set it anywhere else and nothing would change.

If they want to move the story to a fiction setting, that's one thing. It's not like French architecture is an important part of the story.

Still, it would be nice to have the option to set the story in something resembling 18th century France. (But, again, it's a non-issue because this "mandate" isn't even a real mandate.)

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/1/1d5996aa.jpg

This screencap is almost meme-worthy.

FortuneCookie posted...

There's a difference between being inclusive and mandating that more than half of the cast be comprised of less than half of the culture in which the setting takes place.

I've even stated that 80% of stories should be comprised of diverse casts.

What culture. The story is literally not about France.

I retain what I said last post.

If you are watching Disney movies expecting historical or literary accuracy - I got some bad news for you.

I think having such concrete standards for casting is dumb. It's super corporate mandated diversity, and it's not genuine, it's reactive and performative.

Disney isn't really interested in promoting diversity unless it's also a means to increase profits and sell more product. Always keep that in mind.

By the way, Beauty and the Beast is a terrible fucking story.

The father is a coward, the Beast is an abusive manipulator, and the hero solved their problem by developing Stockholm Syndrome.

FortuneCookie posted...

If they want to move the story to a fiction setting, that's one thing. It's not like French architecture is an important part of the story.

Still, it would be nice to have the option to set the story in something resembling 18th century France. (But, again, it's a non-issue because this "mandate" isn't even a real mandate.)

I mean I don't see anyone walking around with cell phones or driving cars so it looks pretty 18th century France to me.

Torgo posted...

Disney isn't really interested in promoting diversity unless it's also a means to increase profits and sell more product. Always keep that in mind.

I don't know why people say this as if it matters? Companies have always pandered. That's what marketing primarily is.

But a company isn't a person. So while the bottom line is all that matters, there are definitely employees who do care about these things on a personal level.

Torgo posted...

By the way, Beauty and the Beast is a terrible fucking story.

The father is a coward, the Beast is an abusive manipulator, and the hero solved their problem by developing Stockholm Syndrome.

https://youtu.be/wwu8XNTGX5o?si=RcJgNYuW-y4iWEiD

And she was totally ready to bang the beast before she had any idea hed turn into a human

lolife67 posted...

I don't know why people say this as if it matters? Companies have always pandered. That's what marketing primarily is.

Because the right wing are painting this as yet another grand conspiracy to replace them or destroy "the West" or white people...

There's no conspiracy, there's no noble intentions, it's just corporate mandated diversity chasing dollars is all I'm saying

thronedfire2 posted...

And she was totally ready to bang the beast before she had any idea hed turn into a human

Well, duh, imagine how big his schlong was in beast form

Id personally prefer the storys based around the real world to maybe reflect the countrys demographic ratios but I can see why itd make more sense in a country like the US.

Torgo posted...

Because the right wing are painting this as yet another grand conspiracy to replace them or destroy "the West" or white people...

There's no conspiracy, there's no noble intentions, it's just corporate mandated diversity chasing dollars is all I'm saying

Ah, gotcha!

FortuneCookie posted...

I get the feeling that "(group identity) fragility" would be bigoted if literally any other group beyond white people were listed there.

Yes, yes, youre the real victims

Prismsblade posted...

Id personally prefer the storys based around the real world to maybe reflect the countrys demographic ratios but I can see why itd make more sense in a country like the US.

Which stories are those? (Based on the real world)

FortuneCookie posted...

I get the feeling that "(group identity) fragility" would be bigoted if literally any other group beyond white people were listed there.

That would be playing directly into the tag, so I wouldn't really recommend that card.

FortuneCookie posted...

I get the feeling that "(group identity) fragility" would be bigoted if literally any other group beyond white people were listed there.

Yes it would be. Glad you understand that.

LightningThief posted...

What culture. The story is literally not about France.

I retain what I said last post.

@LightningThief

Then you're lying out your ass.

McMarbles posted...

Yes, yes, youre the real victims

I don't compare my problems to those of other peoples. But it is bullshit that people can assign a label that ties one's faults into one's ethnicity. If I have a fragile ego, that's my failing. It's not because I'm White.

lolife67 posted...

I don't know why people say this as if it matters? Companies have always pandered. That's what marketing primarily is.

Bingo!

Pandering is nothing new for movies or really any business with a marketing department. But because in this country we take it for granted that everything mainstream is created for the consumption of a white audience, we don't like to call it "pandering".

Elon Musk if you look over the years has become more and more starved for attention. I honestly think he constantly has bad takes now because it gets him tons of attention and he knows it.