Current Events > Trial rescheduled because jurors refuse to fine someone for feeding homeless

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Horith
02/02/24 9:17:11 PM
#1:


https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/housing/article/food-not-bombs-trial-busted-jury-panel-homeless-18617041.php

Two weeks late for me finding out about this, but this puts a smile on my face. Asshole politicians and police making/enforcing anti-homeless laws are gonna have a real problem finding a jury willing to apply this fine. May decent people be a constant thorn in the side of anyone trying to keep this going.
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DrizztLink
02/02/24 9:19:40 PM
#2:


Fuck yeah.

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Antifar
02/02/24 9:23:39 PM
#3:


God bless

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Tyranthraxus
02/02/24 9:31:52 PM
#4:


Hope they have to drop the charges.

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C_Pain
02/02/24 9:39:05 PM
#5:


Jury nullification is valid and it's BS that it's forbidden in courts

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How quaint.
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Tyranthraxus
02/02/24 9:55:34 PM
#6:


C_Pain posted...
Jury nullification is valid and it's BS that it's forbidden in courts

If they can't get anyone to agree to do this you'll have de facto nullification.

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The_Popo
02/02/24 10:00:49 PM
#7:


Is there a link to the actual law and its verbiage? I just cant fathom the wording of a law that seemingly states that its illegal to provide food to someone without a residence. It clearly must exist, but it just seems like a comic-book-supervillain level of evil and mean-spirited.

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Tyranthraxus
02/02/24 10:02:33 PM
#8:


The_Popo posted...
Is there a link to the actual law and its verbiage? I just cant fathom the wording of a law that seemingly states that its illegal to provide food to someone without a residence. It clearly must exist, but it just seems like a comic-book-supervillain level of evil and mean-spirited.

tl;dr it was a violation of zoning laws.

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Enclave
02/02/24 10:04:46 PM
#9:


C_Pain posted...
Jury nullification is valid and it's BS that it's forbidden in courts

It's not really FORBIDDEN, the jury can do it just you'll never find a judge or attorney who will tell the jury that it's an option available to them.

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Horith
02/02/24 10:06:21 PM
#10:


The_Popo posted...
Is there a link to the actual law and its verbiage? I just cant fathom the wording of a law that seemingly states that its illegal to provide food to someone without a residence. It clearly must exist, but it just seems like a comic-book-supervillain level of evil and mean-spirited.

Got it.

https://www.houstontx.gov/health/2012-269.pdf
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KnightofShikari
02/02/24 10:06:43 PM
#11:


i wonder about the exact wording as well. could it be used to fine someone paying for their date's meal? or buying some pizza for friends to share?

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UnfairRepresent
02/02/24 10:08:26 PM
#12:


The_Popo posted...
Is there a link to the actual law and its verbiage? I just cant fathom the wording of a law that seemingly states that its illegal to provide food to someone without a residence. It clearly must exist, but it just seems like a comic-book-supervillain level of evil and mean-spirited.
I don't know the verbage but yes these laws exist and it comes up a lot across multiple states. It's usually things like "You need permission from the state in advance if you intend to feed more than 5 people" and bollocks like that

Some kind of "Well if you give homeless people food and water then they will loiter" logic

People literally call the cops on dudes feeding the homeless

There was a case a while back where a cop actually went undercover as a homeless dude to bust some folks who were feeding homeless people in a park.

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Tyranthraxus
02/02/24 10:08:43 PM
#13:


Enclave posted...
It's not really FORBIDDEN, the jury can do it just you'll never find a judge or attorney who will tell the jury that it's an option available to them.

It's legally not an option. It's just also the law that jurors can never be held criminally or civilly liable for their verdicts and you can't retry a not guilty verdict. If you nullify, you're committing a crime of perjury by refusing to administer the law as described. Whether or not they can actually prove it is a different matter entirely though.

But if enough people outright say during selection that they will refuse to convict, the case could get dropped. And no one will have committed any crimes.

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Tyranthraxus
02/02/24 10:10:05 PM
#14:


KnightofShikari posted...
i wonder about the exact wording as well. could it be used to fine someone paying for their date's meal? or buying some pizza for friends to share?

Only if it's charity (note: giving you friend $20 is not charity) and only if it's for more than 5 people.

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Tenlaar
02/02/24 10:25:05 PM
#15:


People doing mass feeding events having to register with the city and follow safe food preparation guidelines isnt wrong, though obviously theres a decent chance of the city being shit about handling their end of it.

From reading another article it seems like the group may be refusing to go along with the requirements by saying they arent a charity but rather a political group serving food as a form of protest. Which, frankly, seems like a kind of horseshit claim.
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Gwynevere
02/02/24 10:31:01 PM
#16:


Good

Hopefully they can't find a jury willing to go along with this stupid shit

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TheMikh
02/02/24 10:32:21 PM
#17:


based

C_Pain posted...
Jury nullification is valid and it's BS that it's forbidden in courts
this

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Enclave
02/02/24 10:40:26 PM
#18:


Tyranthraxus posted...
It's legally not an option. It's just also the law that jurors can never be held criminally or civilly liable for their verdicts and you can't retry a not guilty verdict. If you nullify, you're committing a crime of perjury by refusing to administer the law as described. Whether or not they can actually prove it is a different matter entirely though.

But if enough people outright say during selection that they will refuse to convict, the case could get dropped. And no one will have committed any crimes.

You cannot be punished for the verdict you give, you aren't committing any crime. Jury nullification is not forbidden, it's allowed. I get you want to play some idiotic game of semantics but fact is jury nullification is allowed, it's not forbidden. If it was forbidden then juries wouldn't be able to do it.

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Tyranthraxus
02/02/24 10:42:48 PM
#19:


Enclave posted...
You cannot be punished for the verdict you give, you aren't committing any crime. Jury nullification is not forbidden, it's allowed. I get you want to play some idiotic game of semantics but fact is jury nullification is allowed, it's not forbidden. If it was forbidden then juries wouldn't be able to do it.

You have to swear an oath that you will administer the law as described. Rendering a verdict you know to be false just because you agree with the crime is, itself, a crime. There's no wiggle room on this.

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It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
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The_Popo
02/02/24 10:56:41 PM
#20:


Horith posted...
Got it.

https://www.houstontx.gov/health/2012-269.pdf

Thanks

One of the points they seem to make against it is that providing food at an outdoor setting can cause litter. But apparently only when providing food to the homeless for free.

If they charged the homeless 1 for the meal, it seemingly would be legal. And there is no law against the vendors gifting a homeless person 1, either. Seems like that could be a stupid loophole to get around a stupid law.

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Amakusa
02/02/24 10:59:35 PM
#21:


Tyranthraxus posted...
You have to swear an oath that you will administer the law as described. Rendering a verdict you know to be false just because you agree with the crime is, itself, a crime. There's no wiggle room on this.
I wouldn't take that as legal advice since you're suggesting you can be taken to court for what you did on a jury.

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Tyranthraxus
02/02/24 11:04:25 PM
#22:


Amakusa posted...
I wouldn't take that as legal advice since you're suggesting you can be taken to court for what you did on a jury.

Fun fact. Committing perjury while on a jury is still perjury.

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Enclave
02/02/24 11:37:47 PM
#23:


Fourth Circuit, U.S. v. Moylan, 1969

We recognize, as appellants urge, the undisputed power of the jury to acquit, even if its verdict is contrary to the law as given by the judge, and contrary to the evidence. This is a power that must exist as long as we adhere to the general verdict in criminal cases, for the courts cannot search the minds of the jurors to find the basis upon which they judge. If the jury feels that the law under which the defendant is accused, is unjust, or that exigent circumstances justified the actions of the accused, or for any reason which appeals to their logic or passion, the jury has the power to acquit, and the courts must abide by that decision.

Going to back down now Tyranthraxus or do you still have some more clown make-up to apply?

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Tyranthraxus
02/02/24 11:39:04 PM
#24:


Enclave posted...
Fourth Circuit, U.S. v. Moylan, 1969

Going to back down now Tyranthraxus or do you still have some more clown make-up to apply?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqH_Y1TupoQ


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GrandConjuraton
02/02/24 11:41:50 PM
#25:


Gwynevere posted...
Good

Hopefully they can't find a jury willing to go along with this stupid shit


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Enclave
02/02/24 11:44:32 PM
#26:


Tyranthraxus posted...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqH_Y1TupoQ

Think I'll stick with what the Fourth Circuit said on the matter over some random YouTuber.

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NoxObscuras
02/02/24 11:57:33 PM
#27:


Oh wow I saw the title and thought this was about the pastor in Ohio that was arrested for sheltering and feeding homeless people in his church. But this is a different story altogether. Kind of fucked that people keep getting punished for trying to help the homeless

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