Board 8 > Puzzle game philosophies in difficulty.

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HaRRicH 11/14/23 12:44:10 PM #1:	How do you like your puzzle games? - Results (69 votes) EASY! Keep me thinking for a minute! 21.74% (15 votes) 15 MEDIUM! Stump me for a half-hour! 59.42% (41 votes) 41 HARD! Hurt me until I say mercy! 18.84% (13 votes) 13 Inspired from Johnbobb's indie game topic. There a bunch of puzzle games out there, and there's a lot of variation. What factors determine where a puzzle game falls on its difficulty scale? And how do you make the puzzles good no matter what its difficulty is? I'll mention a few puzzle games I like in trying to start the conversation. A HARD-DIFFICULTY PUZZLE GAME I THINK IS GREAT: The Witness. It has a simple concept, it trains you early on for what you need to do, the concepts keep expanding through different details, those details blend together in certain areas requiring a full understanding of its expectations, and with enough attention to detail it expands much further than it originally presents itself to become not just a puzzle game but a discovery/recognition game. It gets very hard repeatedly, but most sections start off easy enough to get the initial concept of the new mindset it wants you to adapt (plus you have a lot of flexibility in going to a different area if something is initially too hard). A HARD-DIFFICULTY PUZZLE GAME I WANTED TO LIKE BETTER: Stephen's Sausage Roll. It's hard right off the bat, but its options are restricted and guided early enough to where it worked well for me anyway. I really liked this direction...until the difficulty spiked far beyond my ability to conceive answers. The meat tower-level is fairly early and it does not let you proceed without beating it, which felt like both a much longer level than the others up to this point and needing to learn several new approaches to problems I had not used or internalized yet. It also felt more open, which is good sometimes but also a lack of restrictions there was more confusing at that stage. I know the game gets much harder and a lot of content is ahead -- I would have liked to ease my way into its other puzzles ahead, but I couldn't handle that spike in difficulty. A MEDIUM-DIFFICULTY PUZZLE GAME I THINK IS GREAT: Braid. Yeah, I think Jonathan Blow is terrific for puzzle games where you take a small gasp when you figure the puzzle out. Its hardest difficulty comes from optional content and the occasional end-of-world puzzle. That said, it is a much shorter game and its twelve-puzzle-pieces-per-world format do cement a certain number of easier puzzle pieces each world. It also has speed run options built into the game so it understands there are fast repeatable solutions available. AN EASY-DIFFICULTY PUZZLE GAME I THINK IS GREAT: Puyo Puyo...or to me, better known as Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine. It's more of a multiplayer/high-score kind of puzzle game like Tetris and Bejeweled than a single-player journey against the game's individually-crafted puzzles. It's a different game every time but the concept is the same: make 4+ beans touch a bunch. It's hectic at any skill level, but it gets more strategic and has higher stakes as you up your understanding of how to better connect beans. Simple to learn, difficult to master. Also, there are videos I like about designing around dungeons and Metroidvanias by Game Maker's Toolkit called Boss Keys. It's not the same thing as puzzle games, but there is puzzle-adjacent theory: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLc38fcMFcV_ul4D6OChdWhsNsYY3NA5B2&si=7uw1TrHzMUtKeeZv They also apparently have a playlist specifically on puzzle games I haven't watched before...will post that here too and watch them later: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLc38fcMFcV_vvkHM_MUmyohwuM5oZ5APB&si=XYWKBDDagOhw82EM Anyway, just opening conversation starters. What factors makes a puzzle game good for you? --- O P E R A T I O N O U S T : Nominate SHEIK! https://i.imgur.com/OpudFxm.jpg <cite>HaRRicH posted [p:977211088] in Puzzle gam... [t:80619899]...</cite> <quote> How do you like your puzzle games? - Results (69 votes) EASY! Keep me thinking for a minute! 21.74% (15 votes) 15 MEDIUM! Stump me for a half-hour! 59.42% (41 votes) 41 HARD! Hurt me until I say mercy! 18.84% (13 votes) 13 Show Voting Form Inspired from Johnbobb's indie game topic.There a bunch of puzzle games out there, and there's a lot of variation. What factors determine where a puzzle game falls on its difficulty scale? And how do you make the puzzles good no matter what its difficulty is?I'll mention a few puzzle games I like in trying to start the conversation.A HARD-DIFFICULTY PUZZLE GAME I THINK IS GREAT: The Witness. It has a simple concept, it trains you early on for what you need to do, the concepts keep expanding through different details, those details blend together in certain areas requiring a full understanding of its expectations, and with enough attention to detail it expands much further than it originally presents itself to become not just a puzzle game but a discovery/recognition game. It gets very hard repeatedly, but most sections start off easy enough to get the initial concept of the new mindset it wants you to adapt (plus you have a lot of flexibility in going to a different area if something is initially too hard).A HARD-DIFFICULTY PUZZLE GAME I WANTED TO LIKE BETTER: Stephen's Sausage Roll. It's hard right off the bat, but its options are restricted and guided early enough to where it worked well for me anyway. I really liked this direction...until the difficulty spiked far beyond my ability to conceive answers. The meat tower-level is fairly early and it does not let you proceed without beating it, which felt like both a much longer level than the others up to this point and needing to learn several new approaches to problems I had not used or internalized yet. It also felt more open, which is good sometimes but also a lack of restrictions there was more confusing at that stage. I know the game gets much harder and a lot of content is ahead -- I would have liked to ease my way into its other puzzles ahead, but I couldn't handle that spike in difficulty.A MEDIUM-DIFFICULTY PUZZLE GAME I THINK IS GREAT: Braid. Yeah, I think Jonathan Blow is terrific for puzzle games where you take a small gasp when you figure the puzzle out. Its hardest difficulty comes from optional content and the occasional end-of-world puzzle. That said, it is a much shorter game and its twelve-puzzle-pieces-per-world format do cement a certain number of easier puzzle pieces each world. It also has speed run options built into the game so it understands there are fast repeatable solutions available.AN EASY-DIFFICULTY PUZZLE GAME I THINK IS GREAT: Puyo Puyo...or to me, better known as Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine. It's more of a multiplayer/high-score kind of puzzle game like Tetris and Bejeweled than a single-player journey against the game's individually-crafted puzzles. It's a different game every time but the concept is the same: make 4+ beans touch a bunch. It's hectic at any skill level, but it gets more strategic and has higher stakes as you up your understanding of how to better connect beans. Simple to learn, difficult to master.Also, there are videos I like about designing around dungeons and Metroidvanias by Game Maker's Toolkit called Boss Keys. It's not the same thing as puzzle games, but there is puzzle-adjacent theory:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLc38fcMFcV_ul4D6OChdWhsNsYY3NA5B2&si=7uw1TrHzMUtKeeZvThey also apparently have a playlist specifically on puzzle games I haven't watched before...will post that here too and watch them later:https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLc38fcMFcV_vvkHM_MUmyohwuM5oZ5APB&si=XYWKBDDagOhw82EMAnyway, just opening conversation starters. What factors makes a puzzle game good for you? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NBIceman 11/14/23 12:50:08 PM #2:	Puzzle games are a genre I really need to explore more so I don't know if I really have a worthwhile opinion. The La-Mulana games are among my all-time favorites and they're well known for their absurdly obtuse, bordering on psychotic puzzle design. But I think they're kind of lightning in a bottle for me and I wouldn't want to play lots of games like them. Hoping to go through Tunic soon to see what that's all about. Not even sure any of those really qualify as "puzzle games" for what this topic is asking, though. --- Chilly McFreeze https://i.imgur.com/UYamul2.gif <cite>NBIceman posted [p:977211197] in Puzzle gam... [t:80619899]...</cite> <quote>Puzzle games are a genre I really need to explore more so I don't know if I really have a worthwhile opinion.The La-Mulana games are among my all-time favorites and they're well known for their absurdly obtuse, bordering on psychotic puzzle design. But I think they're kind of lightning in a bottle for me and I wouldn't want to play lots of games like them. Hoping to go through Tunic soon to see what that's all about.Not even sure any of those really qualify as "puzzle games" for what this topic is asking, though. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Fiop 11/14/23 12:56:52 PM #3:	I like all types, and to mix things up. Based on your descriptions, I picked hard. I enjoyed the Witness and solved all the puzzles except maybe 2 without help (couldn't complete the big timed one at the end, though). A game like the Witness is conceptually simple enough to still be fun. Though "hard" puzzles that are computationally difficult aren't always fun. I'm thinking of hard sudokus or chess problems which require thinking lots of moves ahead. I prefer games that actually have solutions so the one you call easy would not be something I'd like as much. --- "so is my word...It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it." - Isaiah 55:11 <cite>Fiop posted [p:977211326] in Puzzle gam... [t:80619899]...</cite> <quote>I like all types, and to mix things up. Based on your descriptions, I picked hard. I enjoyed the Witness and solved all the puzzles except maybe 2 without help (couldn't complete the big timed one at the end, though). A game like the Witness is conceptually simple enough to still be fun. Though "hard" puzzles that are computationally difficult aren't always fun. I'm thinking of hard sudokus or chess problems which require thinking lots of moves ahead. I prefer games that actually have solutions so the one you call easy would not be something I'd like as much. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
PeaceFrog 11/14/23 1:15:02 PM #4:	I don't want to feel like it's just color by numbers or that the game held my hand the entire way. I remember Braid feeling quite clever and strained my brain, which I enjoyed. I would love to play the witness, but every time i try to the first person view gives me horrible motion sickness. The only puzzle game I've played recently was the Pedestrian, which I felt was too easy for 90% of the game and had one or two spots that were annoyingly difficult. --- ~Peaf~ <cite>PeaceFrog posted [p:977211699] in Puzzle gam... [t:80619899]...</cite> <quote>I don't want to feel like it's just color by numbers or that the game held my hand the entire way. I remember Braid feeling quite clever and strained my brain, which I enjoyed.I would love to play the witness, but every time i try to the first person view gives me horrible motion sickness. The only puzzle game I've played recently was the Pedestrian, which I felt was too easy for 90% of the game and had one or two spots that were annoyingly difficult. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0r0n 11/14/23 1:22:46 PM #5:	Difficulty isn't really a concern for me. The "narrative" of the puzzle is way more important - by which I mean the wonder & confusion when you first see the puzzle, to the roadblocks you hit when you try the obvious stuff, to the satisfying eureka moment when you solve it. The Witness does this by chaining 5-10 puzzles together, so it's really smooth, but feels kinda diluted by the sheer # of panels. Baba is the absolute master of this, the mental journey that every single level takes you through is masterful. Portal totally masters puzzle narrative too, but with much easier puzzles. Other great examples are Monster's Expedition and Void Stranger. Sausage was a little too rough with its puzzle design so you hit walls constantly. Snakebird was similar, so even though its puzzles were easier, I bounced off of it even faster. Cocoon is so smooth that it ends up being totally flat, so you end up at the solution without having to think or actually solve anything. In this regard, puzzle design is no different from other level-based game design. Celeste's levels have the same kind of eureka-based narrative flow, and so I don't think the enjoyment of Celeste is particularly different from Baba. It's just that one uses action mechanics and one uses sokoban mechanics. Unless you're physically bad at one of those mechanics, you should be able to enjoy both about equally. That said, you kinda need difficulty to deliver the strongest eureka moments. It's like hot sauce - they're all delicious, but if you like spicy food, you're gonna need to keep escalating the heat to get the same enjoyment. That's why I can't say a game as easy as Portal is the "best" puzzle game. But if you think ketchup is spicy, you're gonna like Cocoon a lot more than Baba, and Mario Wonder more than Celeste. --- _foolmo_ he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance <cite>foolm0r0n posted [p:977211868] in Puzzle gam... [t:80619899]...</cite> <quote>Difficulty isn't really a concern for me. The "narrative" of the puzzle is way more important - by which I mean the wonder & confusion when you first see the puzzle, to the roadblocks you hit when you try the obvious stuff, to the satisfying eureka moment when you solve it. The Witness does this by chaining 5-10 puzzles together, so it's really smooth, but feels kinda diluted by the sheer # of panels. Baba is the absolute master of this, the mental journey that every single level takes you through is masterful. Portal totally masters puzzle narrative too, but with much easier puzzles. Other great examples are Monster's Expedition and Void Stranger.Sausage was a little too rough with its puzzle design so you hit walls constantly. Snakebird was similar, so even though its puzzles were easier, I bounced off of it even faster. Cocoon is so smooth that it ends up being totally flat, so you end up at the solution without having to think or actually solve anything.In this regard, puzzle design is no different from other level-based game design. Celeste's levels have the same kind of eureka-based narrative flow, and so I don't think the enjoyment of Celeste is particularly different from Baba. It's just that one uses action mechanics and one uses sokoban mechanics. Unless you're physically bad at one of those mechanics, you should be able to enjoy both about equally.That said, you kinda need difficulty to deliver the strongest eureka moments. It's like hot sauce - they're all delicious, but if you like spicy food, you're gonna need to keep escalating the heat to get the same enjoyment. That's why I can't say a game as easy as Portal is the "best" puzzle game. But if you think ketchup is spicy, you're gonna like Cocoon a lot more than Baba, and Mario Wonder more than Celeste. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kenri 11/14/23 1:29:28 PM #6:	If I'm staring at the same screen for half an hour it's a problem, though I don't mind a puzzle stumping me for even longer as long as I can go do other stuff in the meantime. So I guess low end of medium for me? Idk --- Congrats to BKSheikah, who knows more about years than anyone else. <cite>Kenri posted [p:977212006] in Puzzle gam... [t:80619899]...</cite> <quote>If I'm staring at the same screen for half an hour it's a problem, though I don't mind a puzzle stumping me for even longer as long as I can go do other stuff in the meantime. So I guess low end of medium for me? Idk </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
jcgamer107 11/14/23 4:04:52 PM #7:	Pretty hardcore fan of the Myst series (at least the first 3 games) which I think would fall in the 'hard' category. The Witness seems.......maybe a bit similar, but I'm not sure how the difficulty stacks up. Riven to me is the most difficult puzzle game I've beaten, and Myst isn't far behind. Exile is the easiest of the 3 but still has some frustrating spots. --- azuarc wasn't even home. he was playing Magic the Gathering at his buddy's store, which is extremely easy to verify <cite>jcgamer107 posted [p:977214588] in Puzzle gam... [t:80619899]...</cite> <quote>Pretty hardcore fan of the Myst series (at least the first 3 games) which I think would fall in the 'hard' category. The Witness seems.......maybe a bit similar, but I'm not sure how the difficulty stacks up. Riven to me is the most difficult puzzle game I've beaten, and Myst isn't far behind. Exile is the easiest of the 3 but still has some frustrating spots. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
andylt 11/14/23 4:11:31 PM #8:	I split puzzle games into 'games that make me feel smart' and 'games that make me feel stupid'. There's a place for both! Though I prefer when games keep their super difficult puzzles optional (Baba, Witness, Fez) rather than mandatory (La Mulana) <cite>andylt posted [p:977214709] in Puzzle gam... [t:80619899]...</cite> <quote>I split puzzle games into 'games that make me feel smart' and 'games that make me feel stupid'. There's a place for both! Though I prefer when games keep their super difficult puzzles optional (Baba, Witness, Fez) rather than mandatory (La Mulana)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Paratroopa1 11/14/23 4:18:51 PM #9:	Medium! (Sees The Witness listed as a 'hard' puzzle game) Oh, uh... hard. <cite>Paratroopa1 posted [p:977214865] in Puzzle gam... [t:80619899]...</cite> <quote>Medium! (Sees The Witness listed as a 'hard' puzzle game) Oh, uh... hard.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sheep007 11/14/23 6:25:20 PM #10:	I find "hard" puzzle games tend to frustrate me more than I get enjoyment out of them. If I'm often spending substantial time on a single puzzle without feeling like I have made progress in figuring it out cough Baba cough, then I get sick of them quickly. The Witness is a pretty solid difficulty, imo. --- Perhaps the golden rock was inside us all along. <cite>Sheep007 posted [p:977216954] in Puzzle gam... [t:80619899]...</cite> <quote>I find "hard" puzzle games tend to frustrate me more than I get enjoyment out of them. If I'm often spending substantial time on a single puzzle without feeling like I have made progress in figuring it out cough Baba cough, then I get sick of them quickly. The Witness is a pretty solid difficulty, imo. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
skullbone 11/14/23 6:32:43 PM #11:	The only thing that kinda bugged me about The Witness was finding a puzzle that you needed more context to solve from another area. I mean technically you could probably solve all puzzles on first glance (probably, I don't know for sure) but there are definitely areas that are designed to teach you the concepts behind puzzles. So sometimes you'll stumble on something and bang your head against a wall until you run into the 1 puzzle that teaches you how to solve it and suddenly it's easy. --- skull <cite>skullbone posted [p:977217065] in Puzzle gam... [t:80619899]...</cite> <quote>The only thing that kinda bugged me about The Witness was finding a puzzle that you needed more context to solve from another area.I mean technically you could probably solve all puzzles on first glance (probably, I don't know for sure) but there are definitely areas that are designed to teach you the concepts behind puzzles. So sometimes you'll stumble on something and bang your head against a wall until you run into the 1 puzzle that teaches you how to solve it and suddenly it's easy. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Paratroopa1 11/14/23 6:42:58 PM #12:	skullbone posted... The only thing that kinda bugged me about The Witness was finding a puzzle that you needed more context to solve from another area. I mean technically you could probably solve all puzzles on first glance (probably, I don't know for sure) but there are definitely areas that are designed to teach you the concepts behind puzzles. So sometimes you'll stumble on something and bang your head against a wall until you run into the 1 puzzle that teaches you how to solve it and suddenly it's easy. I felt like understanding that you needed more context to solve a puzzle that you'd just stumbled upon was kind of part of the game, although sometimes I solved stuff early anyway <cite>Paratroopa1 posted [p:977217203] in Puzzle gam... [t:80619899]...</cite> <quote>skullbone posted... </cite><quote>The only thing that kinda bugged me about The Witness was finding a puzzle that you needed more context to solve from another area.I mean technically you could probably solve all puzzles on first glance (probably, I don't know for sure) but there are definitely areas that are designed to teach you the concepts behind puzzles. So sometimes you'll stumble on something and bang your head against a wall until you run into the 1 puzzle that teaches you how to solve it and suddenly it's easy.</quote>I felt like understanding that you needed more context to solve a puzzle that you'd just stumbled upon was kind of part of the game, although sometimes I solved stuff early anyway</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
skullbone 11/14/23 6:56:04 PM #13:	Yeah with the focus on exploration I get that they wanted you to leave and find a solution sometimes but I just prefer puzzles games that are a little more linear I guess. --- skull <cite>skullbone posted [p:977217438] in Puzzle gam... [t:80619899]...</cite> <quote>Yeah with the focus on exploration I get that they wanted you to leave and find a solution sometimes but I just prefer puzzles games that are a little more linear I guess. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0r0n 11/14/23 7:52:26 PM #14:	skullbone posted... I mean technically you could probably solve all puzzles on first glance (probably, I don't know for sure) Not at all, it's designed like a Metroid game. That's why the first puzzle you see outside of the tutorial is crazy complex --- _foolmo_ he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance <cite>foolm0r0n posted [p:977218381] in Puzzle gam... [t:80619899]...</cite> <quote>skullbone posted... </cite><quote>I mean technically you could probably solve all puzzles on first glance (probably, I don't know for sure)</quote>Not at all, it's designed like a Metroid game. That's why the first puzzle you see outside of the tutorial is crazy complex </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TomNook 11/14/23 9:23:18 PM #15:	foolm0r0n posted... Difficulty isn't really a concern for me. The "narrative" of the puzzle is way more important - by which I mean the wonder & confusion when you first see the puzzle, to the roadblocks you hit when you try the obvious stuff, to the satisfying eureka moment when you solve it. The Witness does this by chaining 5-10 puzzles together, so it's really smooth, but feels kinda diluted by the sheer # of panels. Baba is the absolute master of this, the mental journey that every single level takes you through is masterful. Portal totally masters puzzle narrative too, but with much easier puzzles. Other great examples are Monster's Expedition and Void Stranger. Sausage was a little too rough with its puzzle design so you hit walls constantly. Snakebird was similar, so even though its puzzles were easier, I bounced off of it even faster. Cocoon is so smooth that it ends up being totally flat, so you end up at the solution without having to think or actually solve anything. In this regard, puzzle design is no different from other level-based game design. Celeste's levels have the same kind of eureka-based narrative flow, and so I don't think the enjoyment of Celeste is particularly different from Baba. It's just that one uses action mechanics and one uses sokoban mechanics. Unless you're physically bad at one of those mechanics, you should be able to enjoy both about equally. That said, you kinda need difficulty to deliver the strongest eureka moments. It's like hot sauce - they're all delicious, but if you like spicy food, you're gonna need to keep escalating the heat to get the same enjoyment. That's why I can't say a game as easy as Portal is the "best" puzzle game. But if you think ketchup is spicy, you're gonna like Cocoon a lot more than Baba, and Mario Wonder more than Celeste. This post sums it up perfectly, and better than I could have. I love that you compared Baba to Celeste, because they are both in my all time top 10, and your reasoning is dead on. --- Bells, bells, bells! <cite>TomNook posted [p:977219766] in Puzzle gam... [t:80619899]...</cite> <quote>foolm0r0n posted... </cite><quote>Difficulty isn't really a concern for me. The "narrative" of the puzzle is way more important - by which I mean the wonder & confusion when you first see the puzzle, to the roadblocks you hit when you try the obvious stuff, to the satisfying eureka moment when you solve it. The Witness does this by chaining 5-10 puzzles together, so it's really smooth, but feels kinda diluted by the sheer # of panels. Baba is the absolute master of this, the mental journey that every single level takes you through is masterful. Portal totally masters puzzle narrative too, but with much easier puzzles. Other great examples are Monster's Expedition and Void Stranger.Sausage was a little too rough with its puzzle design so you hit walls constantly. Snakebird was similar, so even though its puzzles were easier, I bounced off of it even faster. Cocoon is so smooth that it ends up being totally flat, so you end up at the solution without having to think or actually solve anything.In this regard, puzzle design is no different from other level-based game design. Celeste's levels have the same kind of eureka-based narrative flow, and so I don't think the enjoyment of Celeste is particularly different from Baba. It's just that one uses action mechanics and one uses sokoban mechanics. Unless you're physically bad at one of those mechanics, you should be able to enjoy both about equally.That said, you kinda need difficulty to deliver the strongest eureka moments. It's like hot sauce - they're all delicious, but if you like spicy food, you're gonna need to keep escalating the heat to get the same enjoyment. That's why I can't say a game as easy as Portal is the "best" puzzle game. But if you think ketchup is spicy, you're gonna like Cocoon a lot more than Baba, and Mario Wonder more than Celeste.</quote>This post sums it up perfectly, and better than I could have.I love that you compared Baba to Celeste, because they are both in my all time top 10, and your reasoning is dead on. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HaRRicH 11/15/23 3:27:49 PM #16:	I like the thought process of looking at a puzzle as a narrative. What do you see first, what is your perceived goal, what do you find out while pursuing it, has the goal changed, how do you work through each obstacle to solve the puzzle...I can see that. As someone who only dabbled in Baba Is You due to it's harder difficulty, Game Maker's Toolkits has a good video on Baba Is You: https://youtu.be/7zLwa4bztWs?si=tVszrJ9T1yKLu6ug I also like their video on Jonathan Blow's strategy of having puzzles communicate ideas to you. https://youtu.be/2zK8ItePe3Y?si=HGC9qVt8ICamEfeP --- O P E R A T I O N O U S T : Nominate SHEIK! https://i.imgur.com/OpudFxm.jpg <cite>HaRRicH posted [p:977231488] in Puzzle gam... [t:80619899]...</cite> <quote>I like the thought process of looking at a puzzle as a narrative. What do you see first, what is your perceived goal, what do you find out while pursuing it, has the goal changed, how do you work through each obstacle to solve the puzzle...I can see that.As someone who only dabbled in Baba Is You due to it's harder difficulty, Game Maker's Toolkits has a good video on Baba Is You:https://youtu.be/7zLwa4bztWs?si=tVszrJ9T1yKLu6ugI also like their video on Jonathan Blow's strategy of having puzzles communicate ideas to you.https://youtu.be/2zK8ItePe3Y?si=HGC9qVt8ICamEfeP </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0r0n 11/15/23 7:05:55 PM #17:	btw play my puzzle game that I made in 2 days at a jam after playing The Witness. Focused on non verbal communication and learning. I'll be impressed if anyone can beat all 20 levels. https://foolmoron.itch.io/the-cloister --- _foolmo_ he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance <cite>foolm0r0n posted [p:977235101] in Puzzle gam... [t:80619899]...</cite> <quote>btw play my puzzle game that I made in 2 days at a jam after playing The Witness. Focused on non verbal communication and learning. I'll be impressed if anyone can beat all 20 levels. https://foolmoron.itch.io/the-cloister </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
jcgamer107 11/15/23 7:44:18 PM #18:	Ha I think I beat it when we were voting on games ......time for another playthrough. That hex-beehive one was good too. --- azuarc wasn't even home. he was playing Magic the Gathering at his buddy's store, which is extremely easy to verify <cite>jcgamer107 posted [p:977235698] in Puzzle gam... [t:80619899]...</cite> <quote>Ha I think I beat it when we were voting on games ......time for another playthrough. That hex-beehive one was good too. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HaRRicH 11/16/23 2:20:45 AM #19:	I'll need a day or two but you got it, thanks. --- O P E R A T I O N O U S T : Nominate SHEIK! https://i.imgur.com/OpudFxm.jpg <cite>HaRRicH posted [p:977240968] in Puzzle gam... [t:80619899]...</cite> <quote>I'll need a day or two but you got it, thanks. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
jcgamer107 11/20/23 5:18:57 PM #20:	https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/d/d8c7f414.png in just under an hour I'd be interested in replaying that beehive one again too, don't know if it's still online --- azuarc wasn't even home. he was playing Magic the Gathering at his buddy's store, which is extremely easy to verify <cite>jcgamer107 posted [p:977321475] in Puzzle gam... [t:80619899]...</cite> <quote>https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/d/d8c7f414.pngin just under an hourI'd be interested in replaying that beehive one again too, don't know if it's still online </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0r0n 11/20/23 5:39:07 PM #21:	king --- _foolmo_ he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance <cite>foolm0r0n posted [p:977321805] in Puzzle gam... [t:80619899]...</cite> <quote>king </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Board 8 > Puzzle game philosophies in difficulty. (+) Yeah! (+)

Board 8 > Puzzle game philosophies in difficulty.