Current Events > Pro-Palestine protestors to Biden: "No cease-fire, no votes."

(+) Yeah! (+)

Antifar posted...

If the goal is to help Democrats win elections, acting smarmy and condescending about the necessity of voting for them is counterproductive.

I hate that this is true. People want everything handed to them without doing any of the heavy lifting. But if we dare call them out on it, they double down on their stupidity.

nocturnal_traveler posted...

People want everything handed to them without doing any of the heavy lifting

Oh man where have I heard this sentence before?

aarrgus posted...

God you fake progressives are worthless.

It's kinda true tho.

- Bernie polled better against Trump and the other Republicans than Hillary in 2016, but the superdelegates nigh unanimously endorsed her and the voters decisively chose her.

- While Biden polled better than Bernie against Trump on most polls for 2020, Bernie was actually polling better than him after the Iowa caucus up until before Super Tuesday. Yet despite that, elected officials and rival candidates nigh unanimously endorsed Biden, and the voters decisively chose him.

They would rather risk a loss with weak center-leftists than elect a strong progressive.

Inohira posted...

It's kinda true tho.

- Bernie polled better against Trump and the other Republicans than Hillary in 2016, but the superdelegates nigh unanimously endorsed her and the voters decisively chose her.

- While Biden polled better than Bernie against Trump on most polls for 2020, Bernie was actually polling better than him after the Nevada caucus up until before Super Tuesday. Yet despite that, elected officials and rival candidates nigh unanimously endorsed Biden, and voters decisively chose him.

They would rather risk a loss with a weak center-leftists than elect a strong progressive.

Yea I get it, you are a fake progressive.

You win by votes. Want progressives to win? Win on the votes. Otherwise fuck off.

Inohira posted...

It's kinda true tho.

- Bernie polled better against Trump and the other Republicans than Hillary in 2016, but the superdelegates nigh unanimously endorsed her and the voters decisively chose her.

- While Biden polled better than Bernie against Trump on most polls for 2020, Bernie was actually polling better than him after the Iowa caucus up until before Super Tuesday. Yet despite that, elected officials and rival candidates nigh unanimously endorsed Biden, and the voters decisively chose him.

They would rather risk a loss with weak center-leftists than elect a strong progressive.

Who a few hundred bigwig politicians endorse doesn't matter. Voters chose Hillary and Biden. They can't vote by the thousands in every state where they won those elections. There isn't a conspiracy. The election isn't rigged. They just lost because they didn't get enough votes. End of story.

I wonder how many people would vote for Biden in 2024 if he suddenly changed his stance on abortion and went hard pro-life policies.

Still better than Trump!

aarrgus posted...

God you fake progressives are worthless.

Oh right, the *true* progressives are assholes like Biden pledging additional billions of dollars to an ethnostate in the middle of their genocide spree.

AltAccount3 posted...

I wonder how many people would vote for Biden in 2024 if he suddenly changed his stance on abortion and went hard pro-life policies.

Still better than Trump!

I think by then people would start unaliving politicians.

IceCreamOnStero posted...

Group of voters: Want thing

Politician: Will not do thing

Group of voters: Will not vote for politician that wont give them what they want

How do you not understand this extremely simple political exchange?

It's simple
They want their vote, but not willing to earn their vote.

Tyranthraxus posted...

Who a few hundred bigwig politicians endorse doesn't matter.

It absolutely matters in the Democratic party where unity and order are valued and accomplished statesmen are respected. Voters don't want to pick a fight with party leaders when the focus is on beating Trump.

Voters didn't give a single solitary fuck about Biden in his primary until Jim Clyburn endorsed him in SC. He placed 4th, 5th, and 2nd prior to that state. The endorsement wave Clyburn started carried Biden from getting pummeled to a dominant lead.

No political analyst buys any attempts to deflect from this common sense and the strawmans you listed off in your post are embarassing.

Why is the US propping up Israel then?

St0rmFury posted...

Why is the US propping up Israel then?

They are the only non Muslim nation in the region. And a supposed "democracy "

Oh and also there is religious reasons. Many Christians think the nation of Israel has to exist for Jesus to come back. But the other part of the prophecy is all the Jews end up killed, and Christians take over Israel

Ricemills posted...

It's simple
They want their vote, but not willing to earn their vote.

Who do you think is more likely to vote? An older Democrat who sympathizes with the Israeli hostages more? Or a younger leftist who wants the massacre against Palestinians to stop?

Haven't read the topic, but, geez, those protestors are sounding as stupid as every other single-issue voter. They expect a Republican to be more sympathetic? Ha!

Zikten posted...

They are the only non Muslim nation in the region. And a supposed "democracy "

Oh and also there is religious reasons. Many Christians think the nation of Israel has to exist for Jesus to come back. But the other part of the prophecy is all the Jews end up killed, and Christians take over Israel

Man, I really can't brain this reasoning. It's just too funny for me as an agnostic.

Azn_Psycho posted...

Haven't read the topic, but, geez, those protestors are sounding as stupid as every other single-issue voter. They expect a Republican to be more sympathetic? Ha!

Rose Twitter's gonna Rose Twitter, I suppose.

Inohira posted...

Voters didn't give a single solitary fuck about Biden in his primary until Jim Clyburn endorsed him in SC. He placed 4th, 5th, and 2nd prior to that state. The endorsement wave Clyburn started carried Biden from getting pummeled to a dominant lead.

That had nothing to do with Clyburn and everything about Bernie's momentum. The moderate voltron didn't form itself.

1337toothbrush posted...

Yep, and the media machine ran it as a "miracle" and then all the other candidates magically dropped out and put their full support behind Biden right before Super Tuesday, except Elizabeth Warren had a magical super PAC crop up to run ads and split votes between her and Bernie. The super PAC magically fell apart shortly after.

And it was later revealed that 98% of the $15 million the PAC raised came from one millionaire donor.

St0rmFury posted...

Man, I really can't brain this reasoning. It's just too funny for me as an agnostic.

I agree its total bullshit, but sadly it seems to influence America's foreign policy with Israel

Forty_Niners posted...

That had nothing to do with Clyburn and everything about Bernie's momentum. The moderate voltron didn't form itself.

Clyburn's endorsement helped Biden win SC by a relative landslide, which established him as the "head" of the moderate Voltron.

Tyranthraxus posted...

You send them the message by smaller competitive races where they can lose to progressives. Eventually, when most of the party is progressives, the president will also be progressive.

Electing a fascist because you don't want to elect a liberal is self defeating regressive politics that will promulgate genocide. The choice needs to be between a liberal and a progressive, not between a liberal and a fascist.

This is such a pipe dream.

You realize that, right?

Irony posted...

Sounds like tens of thousands of people are stupid

This.

No votes mean Trump wins. Trump winning means even worse conditions for the Palestinians.

As opposed to Biden who cares far more than any Republican. Especially more than Trump

Inohira posted...

Clyburn's endorsement helped Biden win SC by a relative landslide, which established him as the "head" of the moderate Voltron.

Yep, and the media machine ran it as a "miracle" and then all the other candidates magically dropped out and put their full support behind Biden right before Super Tuesday, except Elizabeth Warren had a magical super PAC crop up to run ads and split votes between her and Bernie. The super PAC magically fell apart shortly after.

itachi15243 posted...

How the fuck do They even think that Biden is going to singlehandedly negotiate a ceasefire?

Because in theory, the US government is supposed to have Israel by the balls. Biden COULD force a ceasefire. But he's not brave enough to enforce it. Israel is supposed to do what we say. They only exist because we prop them up

Humble_Novice posted...

Who do you think is more likely to vote? An older Democrat who sympathizes with the Israeli hostages more? Or a younger leftist who wants the massacre against Palestinians to stop?

Let me ask you a simple question.
Do their votes matters or not?
If no, they you can ignore them. if yes, then why not do things to gain their votes?
You can't expect someone to vote for you if they gain nothing from you.

The "it's better than Trump" excuse is getting stale, gold decorated poop is still poop.

St0rmFury posted...

Why is the US propping up Israel then?

For one thing, the predominate religious groups in the US are pro-Israel.
And in practice lip service to said groups has been de facto nearly a requirement to be elected to major public offices. (only a fraction of politicians in US history have distinctly identified as something that is not some variation of Christianity or Judaism, Including unaffiliated or otherwise non-denominational)

Savoots posted...

This is such a pipe dream.

You realize that, right?

Savoots post

Ricemills posted...

The "it's better than Trump" excuse is getting stale, gold decorated poop is still poop.

It's also better than stabbing yourself repeatedly in the face but you're not going to do that are you?

Ricemills posted...

The "it's better than Trump" excuse is getting stale, gold decorated poop is still poop.

hamas says they will continue terrorist attacks until all of israel is dead. how do you expect a cease fire to come from this?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I won't hold my breath. Beside slavery, forced migration and cultural marginalization of the native peoples that amounted to genocide, is steeped in the bedrock of America.

metralo posted...

hamas says they will continue terrorist attacks until all of israel is dead. how do you expect a cease fire to come from this?

Sadly this. On another note, is it true that there are small groups of anti-Hamas Palestinians fighting against the terrorists within Gaza?

FWIW I can't condemn their anger. Don't know how to feel on how to properly condemn the Democrats over it either, whom I do not believe are above criticism.

Pro
Peaceful demonstration
People working together for the same ideals
On the right side

Con
Dishonest because they must know it is not going to work

But hey, let us see where this goes.

ForsakenHermit posted...

FWIW I can't condemn their anger. Don't know how to feel on how to properly condemn the Democrats over it either, whom I do not believe are above criticism.

I'll admit I don't understand what Democrats doing this, think they'll gain from it.

The Republican agenda is more apparent. (support Israel on the surface, while engaging in antisemitic tropes)

Humble_Novice posted...

Sadly this. On another note, is it true that there are small groups of anti-Hamas Palestinians fighting against the terrorists within Gaza?

Even if this is real, I wouldn't expect the IDF to differentiate between them. IDF will probably kill them if they run into each other

Antifar posted...

If the goal is to help Democrats win elections, acting smarmy and condescending about the necessity of voting for them is counterproductive.

I don't want people to help Democrats win. I want people to help Republicans lose. If people would rather the man who will shoot them in the head win, than settle for being kicked in the genitals, then that's their problem. We aren't going to entirely reshape America's political system or find an Option C by this time next year.

Like, America First is stupid, but people literally thinking hurting everyone in this country because neither political party will help Palestine are not making any sense. Self-preservation needs to kick in at some point. I'm sure the women harmed by a national abortion ban would feel very happy that the Democrat Party will learn their lesson. The generations ruined by the complete gutting of public education and limiting of free expression are totally a small price to pay to remind politicians that they are supposed to earn our vote with positive traits.

hockeybub89 posted...

I don't want people to help Democrats win. I want people to help Republicans lose. If people would rather the man who will shoot them in the head win, than settle for being kicked in the genitals, then that's their problem. We aren't going to entirely reshape America's political system or find an Option C by this time next year.

Like, America First is stupid, but people literally thinking hurting everyone in this country because neither political party will help Palestine are not making any sense. Self-preservation needs to kick in at some point. I'm sure the women harmed by a national abortion ban would feel very happy that the Democrat Party will learn their lesson. The generations ruined by the complete gutting of public education and limiting of free expression are totally a small price to pay to remind politicians that they are supposed to earn our vote with positive traits.

This is not a good take at all. As you seem to think Republicans winning in 2024 somehow guarantees Democrats will even get a chance to in 2026 and 2028.

Literally abortion is a problem in the first place is because of people like you toting your logic in 2016. Well guess what, your grand prize was a conservative Supreme Court that led the way to Roe v Wade being overturned. Elections have consequences. Regardless if you are madly in love with both candidates or not, one of those 2 are likely to win regardless, and they are both not equally damaging.

Each time a Republican wins, it makes it that much harder to reverse the damage they have done. This idea that some dream progressive is going to stroll in reversing total 180s on Republican legislation damages is not realistic. Things like education being gutted would and will have lasting damages. Republicans pushing to make sure their dear leader is harder to remove this go around would have lasting damages as their failed coup is already looking to be a failed proving ground they aim to get right this time if he wins.

Generations of damage is not a "small price." Especially given what Republicans are literally aiming to do which is to install their white ethno theocratic state with Trump and his sycophants at the wheel.

Shadow_Don posted...

Don't know what to tell you my man.

The other party tried to overthrow the country and could have flung us into a civil war. And their plans for 2025 and beyond to centralize power to the executive and fire anyone in the government who isn't a trump goon is fully out in the open. You should really take a moment and introspect on what that might look like if he wins.

IIRC, that poster lives outside the US and wouldn't have to live under the consequences of a second Trump administration. He's JAQing off.

If I were running for president and I had the choice between losing the presidency because I supported genocide vs winning the presidency because I fought against genocide I think I know which one I'd pick tbh

asdf8562 posted...

This is not a good take at all. As you seem to think Republicans winning in 2024 somehow guarantees Democrats will even get a chance to in 2026 and 2028.

Literally abortion is a problem in the first place is because of people like you toting your logic in 2016. Well guess what, your grand prize was a conservative Supreme Court that led the way to Roe v Wade being overturned. Elections have consequences. Regardless if you are madly in love with both candidates or not, one of those 2 are likely to win regardless, and they are both not equally damaging.

Each time a Republican wins, it makes it that much harder to reverse the damage they have done. This idea that some dream progressive is going to stroll in reversing total 180s on Republican legislation damages is not realistic. Things like education being gutted would and will have lasting damages. Republicans pushing to make sure their dear leader is harder to remove this go around would have lasting damages as their failed coup is already looking to be a failed proving ground they aim to get right this time if he wins.

Generations of damage is not a "small price." Especially given what Republicans are literally aiming to do which is to install their white ethno theocratic state with Trump and his sycophants at the wheel.

Except when democrats have the chance, they don't reverse damage or provide progress. Take Obama having a supermajority and promising to act on reproductive rights while on the campaign trail, then... https://www.reuters.com/article/obama-abortion/obama-says-abortion-rights-law-not-a-top-priority-idUKN2946642020090430

2016 was literally the result of democrats 1) Doing what they can to have Trump as an opponent so they can point and say "our opponent is so bad that you must vote for us because there is no alternative" and 2) Insisting that it's "her turn" to be president so they pulled all the stops to make Hillary the nominee through the party primary process which skews heavily in favor of what the party wants (since typically party diehards are the ones participating during that party process) even though she was deeply unpopular on the national level. Both Hillary and Trump had a below 50% approval rating before the election. They couldn't have chosen to promote someone with a better approval rating to ensure victory?

Smashingpmkns posted...

If I were running for president and I had the choice between losing the presidency because I supported genocide vs winning the presidency because I fought against genocide I think I know which one I'd pick tbh

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/e/e1ecfd2d.jpg

IceCreamOnStero posted...

"Do thing I want and I'll vote for you" is basic politics. What's the problem?

The problem in this particular case is the thing you want isn't going to happen either way, but the guy who literally wants to destroy American democracy might be able to do so if you take your ball and go home.

St0rmFury posted...

Why is the US propping up Israel then?

Because the US wants a proxy in the Middle East, and Israel is the most amenable to being one.

IceCreamOnStero posted...

Thank god though, at least the Democrats are upholding the true spirit of democracy, voting for awful candidates who's only draw is that there are even worse candidates.

One of these days you and your ilk will grow up and realize your idyllic democracy doesn't exist within a two-party system.

Ricemills posted...

It's simple
They want their vote, but not willing to earn their vote.

Them the Democrats should suck it up and deal with the consequences of not doing basic democracy

darkace77450 posted...

One of these days you and your ilk will grow up and realize your idyllic democracy doesn't exist within a two-party system.

I know it doesn't exist. Its democrats, who constantly parrot their "saving our democracy" talking point, pretending like they live in one.

creativerealms posted...

Not in this case. In the case of the Palestine issue both are equally terrible.

I don't live in Palestine.

IceCreamOnStero posted...

You hacen't addressed either of my points. None of this precludes Democrats from trying to earn votes.

*You* haven't addressed the fact that courting pro-Palestine votes comes at the expense of pro-Zionist votes.

nocturnal_traveler posted...

I hate that this is true. People want everything handed to them without doing any of the heavy lifting. But if we dare call them out on it, they double down on their stupidity.

The last time you "called us out" you got Donald Trump and three Christian Supreme Court Justices who immediately stripped tens of millions of American women of bodily autonomy, rolled back EPA regulations, and gave the government blessing to endorse Christianity.

Inohira posted...

- While Biden polled better than Bernie against Trump on most polls for 2020, Bernie was actually polling better than him after the Iowa caucus up until before Super Tuesday. Yet despite that, elected officials and rival candidates nigh unanimously endorsed Biden, and the voters decisively chose him.

This shit again?

Look, dude, the moderate candidates realized they were splitting the moderate vote while Bernie was enjoying the support of a relatively united progressive wing. The moment some of the moderate candidates dropped out their supporters coalesced around - you're not going to believe this - another moderate candidate.

Wild, isn't it? I too was sure those moderate votes would throw in with a progressive Bernie, but nope. Against all expectations, they continued to back liberals over a progressive alternative.

1337toothbrush posted...

Yep, and the media machine ran it as a "miracle" and then all the other candidates magically dropped out and put their full support behind Biden right before Super Tuesday, except Elizabeth Warren had a magical super PAC crop up to run ads and split votes between her and Bernie. The super PAC magically fell apart shortly after.

Super PACs suck.

You know who made Super PACs possible? Conservative SC Justices.

You know who appoints conservative SC Justices? Republicans.

You know who benefits when progressive voters punish liberal candidates at the polls? Republicans.

darkace77450 posted...

Super PACs suck.

You know who made Super PACs possible? Conservative SC Justices.

You know who appoints conservative SC Justices? Republicans.

You know who benefits when progressive voters punish liberal candidates at the polls? Republicans.

You know who loves republicans? Democrats.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/12/joe-biden-america-needs-the-republican-party.html
https://www.newsweek.com/nancy-pelosi-says-us-needs-strong-republican-party-1779854

I love how you decided to laser focus on the super PAC part of my post (the super PAC used to the benefit of the democratic party btw) and not the parts where democrats colluded to make sure Bernie didn't get the nomination just so they could uphold the status quo with Joe "nothing would fundamentally change" Biden.