Current Events > Internet atheists explains why it's difficult for atheists to be 'nice guys'

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'm not interested in some rando's youtube video.

ooger posted...

I'm not interested in some rando's youtube video.

You were interested enough to click on the topic and then to respond tho.

ForsakenHermit posted...

Sounds like he wants an excuse to be a bigot. It's one thing to be mean to Christians (or anyone else) trying to shove their religion down his throat. It's another to be a jerk to anyone who is Christian as some preemptive strike because they might not treat you right.

Call me crazy but I think you should be angry towards those who deserve it because of their actions and not because they're religious or non religious. If someone tries to convert you to their religion or deconvert you into their world view after you have made it clear you're not interested that's when you get angry and aggressive. Doing it beforehand is the very definition of prejudice.

An atheist most certainly can be a jerk, and I have every reason to have a negative opinion of religion. But I know I lack the public speaking acumen to be effective at broadening people's minds to question and reconsider prejudiced beliefs.

I'm agnostic and I am nice when I want to be

reincarnator07 posted...

You were interested enough to click on the topic and then to respond tho.

I'm not interested in your response.

You know, I'm not particularly interested in playing nice with people that think my identity is a delusion that's gonna get me sent to hell

So I don't think I will

atheists are like vegans
vegans that just wanna practice veganism are cool
the ones that wanna fuckin talk to you about it are annoying af

same with atheists

@ArsGoetia

atheists are like vegans
vegans that just wanna practice veganism are cool
the ones that wanna fuckin talk to you about it are annoying af

same with atheists

That's the same with religion too which includes Christians.

Christians who want to practice their faith and stick to themselves are fine.
Christians who want to preach to everyone thinking they have a moral high ground, and push their religion on others are annoying af.

Guns_of_Verdun posted...

Cites that religious people mainly Christians think nice atheists aren't "real" atheists and will return to religion shortly.

So he's rude because he's deeply uncomfortable with someone else thinking that he may change in the future. Sounds insecure af.

AldousIsDead posted...

I am not particularly interested in being nice. Not so long as religion has its hands on the levers of power around the world at any rate.

Yeah! Fuck being nice!

One of my friends became vegan. He never forced his beliefs onto me. He was just like all yeah. I miss eating cheese. I haven't talked to him in awhile. We used to eat french fries occasionally and bet money on early PS3 Madden football.

I watched a couple of this guys videos a while back, but started getting fart sniffer vibes from him.

asdf8562 posted...

@ArsGoetia
That's the same with religion too which includes Christians.

Christians who want to practice their faith and stick to themselves are fine.
Christians who want to preach to everyone thinking they have a moral high ground, and push their religion on others are annoying af.

tru dat

Since most atheists are going around saying hey I am an atheist and wearing a big A on their shirt. People met nice atheists and don't even know it. But they see rude atheists online and on TV. And think is how everyone is. (note that is not to say there are not nice open atheists online)

Not I am not saying it is right, but I am guessing that is what is going on.

I didn't even watch the video. But someone bumped this after I posted some Bad Religion songs.

bfslick50 posted...

So he's rude because he's deeply uncomfortable with someone else thinking that he may change in the future. Sounds insecure af.

That's your takeaway from what he said?

As an atheist, there's nothing cringier than an atheist that keeps finding ways to say how "misunderstood" they are.
These people should just stfu.

Some of y'all seem to have it in your heads that atheists are assholes for standing up for themselves. Especially when religious nutters keep trying to turn their rules into everyone else's laws. So let me ask you: WHY?

Why do atheists get called the bad guys for standing up to religious nutbars who have no notion of their religion only applying to themselves and not anyone else? You can't have ice cream because it's against your religion? Okay.

Wait, you're saying I can't eat it because it's against your religion? I am not a member of your religion, bugger off.

We don't need a Christian Taliban, but that sure seems to be what we've been getting a lot of lately.

There are atheist and then there are anti-theist. And I would much rather by around the former than the latter.

Torgo posted...

Frankly that's not what I was trying to excuse and you missed the point.

Can I admit that some atheists are incredibly annoying and aggressive about their atheism? Of course... one of my favorite jokes is: "How can you tell if your co-worker just became and atheist? - wait five minutes and I'm sure they'll tell you."

But I have heard people, especially religious folks trying to create some parallel to their beliefs, claim the idea that anything a non-religious person is passionate about is "their religion": atheism, sports, politics, etc... but this is just a way to avoid addressing the social impact and ramifications of organized religion, and religious people can be just as invested in sports, politics, or any hobby and we don't call them heretics now, do we?

That's the point I was trying to make.

I was just venting about a trend I've noticed a lot in defense of over assertive antitheists namely Dawkins. Didn't mean it as an attack on you.

Sounds like some nonsense that would only be spread by religious nutjobs lol. "You must accept religion if you want to be a nice person" Nah, atheists aren't universally nice or mean. Their morality isn't defined by whether or not they follow religion

ooger posted...

I'm not interested in your response.

Again, you were interested enough to post.

That's kind of a low bar though.

ChainsawFerret posted...

Some of y'all seem to have it in your heads that atheists are assholes for standing up for themselves. Especially when religious nutters keep trying to turn their rules into everyone else's laws. So let me ask you: WHY?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_persecution_complex

NoxObscuras posted...

Sounds like some nonsense that would only be spread by religious nutjobs lol. "You must accept religion if you want to be a nice person" Nah, atheists aren't universally nice or mean. Their morality isn't defined by whether or not they follow religion

I think part of the reason a lot of religious people don't have an easy time understanding how atheists can be nice people is because the most outspoken atheists aren't really nice people. Even the Penn Jillete's of atheism advocates are a bit off putting at first before you really get to know them.

Atheists: "Stop trying to force your beliefs on us in society and stop trying to tie morality to religious belief"

Christians with a victim complex: "OMG you guys are such awful judgmental people"

Billyionaire posted...

So much fedora tipping going on ITT

Honestly I expected this topic to be a whole lot worse but it's moatly been pretty level headed on both sides.

ArsGoetia posted...

atheists are like vegans
vegans that just wanna practice veganism are cool
the ones that wanna fuckin talk to you about it are annoying af

same with atheists

Do we find it annoying when people say ghosts and Bigfoot aren't real? Like jeez, don't beat your opinions over my head and act like you know there isn't supernatural phenomena.

I'm not practicing atheism. I'm not practicing a religion. And you cannot reveal that in public without it immediately causing awkwardness most of the time. People that don't play musical instruments aren't practicing the nothing. They're not musicians at all.

hockeybub89 posted...

Do we find it annoying when people say ghosts and Bigfoot aren't real? Like jeez, don't beat your opinions over my head and act like you know there isn't supernatural phenomena.

I'm not practicing atheism. I'm not practicing a religion. And you cannot reveal that in public without it immediately causing awkwardness most of the time. People that don't play musical instruments aren't practicing the nothing. They're not musicians at all.

Some people are very taken aback when I say that I dont believe in ghosts.

I used to as a kid, but my vain and narcissistic self felt ripped off that I lived in a house where someone went insane and hung herself and there was no ghost. That, and in the USA, why are so many ghosts post-colonial? Maybe native people pass on better, but it seems sus to me.

hockeybub89 posted...

Do we find it annoying when people say ghosts and Bigfoot aren't real? Like jeez, don't beat your opinions over my head and act like you know there isn't supernatural phenomena.

I'm not practicing atheism. I'm not practicing a religion. And you cannot reveal that in public without it immediately causing awkwardness most of the time. People that don't play m usical instruments aren't practicing the nothing. They're not musicians at all.

i really dont care if you believe or dont believe in bigfoot and i really dont wanna talk about it
really dont know how to make this more clear

outspoken atheists are generally obnoxious and ironically holier than thou types

I have very rarely had arguments about faith throughout my life, and im agnostic at best, and from Texas. Unless youre constantly in like, religious situations or something, how are people even going to know if youre atheist or not unless youre bringing it up?

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

I have very rarely had arguments about faith throughout my life, and im agnostic at best, and from Texas. Unless youre constantly in like, religious situations or something, how are people even going to know if youre atheist or not unless youre bringing it up?

Guessing you didn't grow up in a religious family or a religious community.

Which you should be thankful for TBH. I wish no one constantly pressed religon onto me growing up.

Guns_of_Verdun posted...

Guessing you didn't grow up in a religious family or a religious community.

Which you should be thankful for TBH. I wish no one constantly pressed religon onto me growing up.

No, i didnt, and yeah im thankful for it. Im just speaking more generally, that outside of these specific communities religion is starting to matter way less. Most places ive been to in my life i have never heard a religious topic, and certainly not an argument

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

religion is starting to matter way less.

I'm not sure this is true. Either globally or in the US

Sure chuchgoers are dying out but the the right wing has gotten more religious crazy in the past decade. All these anti-abortion, anti-LGBT, religion in schools, banning/restricting books bills, pushing God on kids in schools and politicans who were dying out in the 90s have come back into prominance.

I mean I don't think I can even make up a hypothetical that would demonstrate the point better than that time Donald Trump tear gassed a bunch of protesters so he could pose with a bible in front of a church for a photo op because Americans enjoyed it.

God is still printed on Dollar Bills, the 10 commandments are still on the walls in courts.

Religion is being used in the alt-right's "Anti-Woke" arsenal is a weapon.

And outside of the US, just look at Gaza and Saudi Arabia.
Ukraine has got from 68% Christian to 85% Christian following the Russian invasion.
Andrew Tate's defense for his treatment of women was to hold a Qu'ran and claim to be a good Muslim.

Religion has not and is not going anywhere. No likely will it ever. It's part of socetial make up.

Most places ive been to in my life i have never heard a religious topic, and certainly not an argument

That's good for you but I think it's naive and a little egotistical to assume that if something hasn't personally effected you then it doesn't matter.

Guns_of_Verdun posted...

I'm not sure this is true. Either globally or in the US

Sure chuchgoers are dying out but the the right wing has gotten more religious crazy in the past decade. All these anti-abortion, anti-LGBT, religion in schools, banning/restricting books bills, pushing God on kids in schools and politicans who were dying out in the 90s have come back into prominance.

God is still printed on Dollar Bills, the 10 commandments are still on the walls in courts.

Religion is being used in the alt-right's "Anti-Woke" arsenal is a weapon.

And outside of the US, just look at Gaza and Saudi Arabia.
Ukraine has got from 68% Christian to 85% Christian following the Russian invasion.
Andrew Tate's defense for his treatment of women was to hold a Qu'ran and claim to be a good Muslim.

Religion has not and is not going anywhere. No likely will it ever. It's part of socetial make up.

That's good for you but I think it's naive and a little egotistical to assume that if something hasn't personally effected you then it doesn't matter.

im not saying it doesnt matter, im just saying that in day to day life being atheist will rarely have an effect on anything. I dont know any of the views or beliefs of anyone i work with. Right wing crazies being insane is the status quo, if they didnt have religion theyd just find some other reason to be awful. Many of them dont even truly believe in religion, they just use it as a cudgel to hate minorities and lgbt people.

of course religion will always EXIST, but using right wing extremism as evidence that religion is growing in day to day life isnt really applicable. its not a religion problem as much as its a right wing extremism problem.

Sure they say that they have to oppose lgbt and abortion because RELIGION, but thats just because the republican party will eviscerate any republican who doesnt say this. I genuinely believe less people truly believe than ever before, but religion is too easy of a reason to do things

Guns_of_Verdun posted...

I'm not sure this is true. Either globally or in the US

Sure chuchgoers are dying out but the the right wing has gotten more religious crazy in the past decade. All these anti-abortion, anti-LGBT, religion in schools, banning/restricting books bills, pushing God on kids in schools and politicans who were dying out in the 90s have come back into prominance.

I mean I don't think I can even make up a hypothetical that would demonstrate the point better than that time Donald Trump tear gassed a bunch of protesters so he could pose with a bible in front of a church for a photo op because Americans enjoyed it.

God is still printed on Dollar Bills, the 10 commandments are still on the walls in courts.

Religion is being used in the alt-right's "Anti-Woke" arsenal is a weapon.

And outside of the US, just look at Gaza and Saudi Arabia.
Ukraine has got from 68% Christian to 85% Christian following the Russian invasion.
Andrew Tate's defense for his treatment of women was to hold a Qu'ran and claim to be a good Muslim.

Religion has not and is not going anywhere. No likely will it ever. It's part of socetial make up.

That's good for you but I think it's naive and a little egotistical to assume that if something hasn't personally effected you then it doesn't matter.

Evil people will use religion for evil. Doesnt Jordan Peterson or whoever try and use science for similar purposes?

VeesMcGees posted...

Evil people will use religion for evil. Doesnt Jordan Peterson or whoever try and use science for similar purposes?

This. Im not saying religion isnt often a problem in itself, but the same lawmakers opposing abortion will send their mistress to another state to get a secret abortion. Does that sound like a true believer or someone who wants control over women?

And then as you said theres the science guys who will proclaim that nature and science prove that lgbt people are crimes against nature and dont/shouldnt exist.

I used to be an atheist, but I became a demonist (not to be confused for Satanist) after meeting two succubi in my dreams.

I still am a nice gal, either way.

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

im not saying it doesnt matter, im just saying that in day to day life being atheist will rarely have an effect on anything. I dont know any of the views or beliefs of anyone i work with.

Again.

"That's good for you but I think it's naive and a little egotistical to assume that if something hasn't personally effected you then it doesn't matter."

Right now on CE there's a topic about a pastor in Alabama who commited suicide because he was outed as trans in a religious community:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/400-current-events/80611108

You can't just say "Well it doesn't effect anything." just because it doesn't effect you. That's a very close minded way to approach life and one that encourages corruption and cruelty via indifference.

If you were open to look into it, you'd find that being an atheist or LGBT can be something that effects people's lives constantly, effects their employment, mental health, friendship cycle, can get them ostracized from their family, can put them in financial hardship or risk of prison and even can put them in direct physical danger.

If this isn't the case for you then that is fantastic and you should be very thankful for it. But don't deny or downplay it for others just because you're safe.

Right wing crazies being insane is the status quo, if they didnt have religion theyd just find some other reason to be awful. Many of them dont even truly believe in religion, they just use it as a cudgel to hate minorities and lgbt people.

It's literally becoming the Status Quo. It hasn't been for 1995-2015. Then it got much much worse and is continuing to get worse.

It's also strange that you argue "It doesn't effect me so it doesn't matter" then when faced it with effecting other people you go "But that's the status quo."

erm...

of course religion will always EXIST, but using right wing extremism as evidence that religion is growing in day to day life isnt really applicable.

Why not? WTF? Right wing extremeism and religion in law, policy and politicians is growing in number and exetremity. Why in the world are not allowed to point that out? O_o

What a frankly bizarre thing to say.

What examples ARE we allowed to point out then?

Sure they say that they have to oppose lgbt and abortion because RELIGION, but thats just because the republican party will eviscerate any republican who doesnt say this. I genuinely believe less people truly believe than ever before, but religion is too easy of a reason to do things

You might be right that there are less openly practicing people in the US than there used to be. In an inverse of Ukraine it's dropped from 85% to 65% since 1990 accoridng to the census.

But I don't agree for a second that "There are less practicing Christians" is the same as "Religion matters way less" when the people who do practice have gotten more extreme and it's impact/influence on society and the law is getting stronger, not weaker.

I find it difficult to believe you live in Texas and yet poo-poo the influence religion has on the laws, policy and infastructure of society as being a non-factor.

It really doesn't matter at the end of the day how many Americans go to church for an hour on Sunday.
It does matter how many American elected officials, congressmen, presidential candidates, judges, police officers, teachers, social media influencers, billionaires etc use religion in their decision making that directly affects others.

Which I'd argue has gotten signifcantly worse in the US over the past decade. Social media has directly pushed it

VeesMcGees posted...

Evil people will use religion for evil.

And who decides what people are evil and what usages are evil?

Very few of the anti-abortion and LGBT dudes believe they are evil. The parents who kick their kid out of their home for being an atheist or gay probably think they're saving his soul.

That's why the focus IMO really has to be more on policy and infastructure than a vagueness of "What people think"

the topic is about how its hard to be a nice atheist, which implies interactions youre having with people. In day to day life very few people will care or even know. Are you regularly interacting with right wing politicians? When is there a point youre being any type of atheist in the presence of these people?

also You doubt im from texas because religion doesnt play a part in my daily life? Texas has some of largest liberal urban areas in the country.

i feel like the topic has gone from its hard to be a friendly atheist to you shifting to growing right wing extremism. Is right wingers using religion to harm people bad? yes.

Is it necessary to outwardly project your atheism to people who probably dont care? probably not? unless youre regularly interacting with republican lawmakers or something

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

the topic is about how its hard to be a nice atheist, which implies interactions youre having with people. In day to day life very few people will care or even know. Are you regularly interacting with right wing politicians? When is there a point youre being any type of atheist in the presence of these people?

Well this largely depends on who you talk to. Where you work, who your family are, how close you are. What school/college you go to. Who your friends are, if you're on social media etc.

But the answer is it absolutely can come up and often frequently for a lot of people.

Even putting all that aside, sometimes "What church do you go to?" is one of the first questions I'm asked by someone I've just met.

Again, if this doesn't happen to you and you safe. That's fantastic and you should be thankful for it. But it's extremely odd that you're actively downplaying and denying it's effect on other people because you're ok.

also You doubt im from texas because religion doesnt play a part in my daily life? Texas has some of largest liberal urban areas in the country.

I very much doubt anyone from Texas is unaware of the state's connection to religion. Specifically Christianity. And the knock on effect this has on the state, laws, infastructure, population.

That's like Italians claiming to be unaware of Catholicism because "It doesn't come up in daily life."

It's hard for me to buy that. It just sounds like dishonesty. Especially when paired with the other things you are saying in your posts.

Worth pointing out that the man in the video in the OP was driven to the brink of suicide because he was an atheist raised in a Texan Christian family/community. Yet you're claiming this doesn't happen in this direct topic because it didn't happen to you.

ssb_yunglink2 posted...

i feel like the topic has gone from its hard to be a friendly atheist to you shifting to growing right wing extremism. Is right wingers using religion to harm people bad? yes.

It's all connected.

I'd also argue the growing right-wing and religious exetremeism is symbiotic. Not just now but across all of history.

Is it necessary to outwardly project your atheism to people who probably dont care? probably not? unless youre regularly interacting with republican lawmakers or something

I have at no point said I was an atheist.

Worth noting the very first thing you did in this topic was declare you were one tho. And follow that up with spending literally every post downplaying the challenges atheists/LGBT can face and the harm that religion can do

Also telling that you believe you need to "Interact with Republican lawmakers" directly to be affected by their laws.

Do you believe those women who arrested for miscarriages had long conversations with Tom Cole beforehand?

i was gonna type out a long rebuttal, but i dont think its worth it anymore.

Im not trying to downplay bad people using religion as a weapon to harm others. I literally said that right wing religious extremism is growing, and is also a problem.

literally all i originally meant to say is that its not difficult to be a nice person while being an atheist. Speaking out against people wishing hell upon others is not an atheist thing, thats just a people thing.

EDIT:
I just reread my posts and i have no idea how you think im downplaying that religious laws harm people. Literally one of my posts states that republicans use religion as a cudgel to hate. You just got hostile out of nowhere and refused to believe im from Texas lmao

ChainsawFerret posted...

So, tell me again why atheists should give the time of day to religious nutters who want them dead? Or why they need to be kind to Y'all-Qaeda?

Religious nutter must mean all religious people to you. Otherwise why would you claim you're being told to smile and welcome terrorists like Al Qaeda or cult leaders having sex with teens like some Mormons? Who says that?

CountCorvinus posted...

Agreed. They shouldn't.

I have a rule. "Do unto others as they do unto me"

I'm polite and courteous to people until they give me a reason not to be.

Turning the other cheek is for christians.

Who said they should?
Do Christians claim you must be a doormat?

Flambian posted...

Unfortunately, Atheists are just as trapped in moral thinking as believers.

Your whole post is good, but the atheists here don't like to identify with religious people. They're just as keen to present themselves as different from religious people, as they perceive religious people are keen to present themselves as different from nonbelievers. I guess it's all their own experience of aggressive over zealous religious people who are pedos and terrorists?

The 'correct' way to think here is to just be cynical and 'admit' there is nothing beyond what you see with your eyes.

I know plenty of them, honestly just sounds like anti-atheist propaganda.

Not all atheists are anti-theism.

ArsGoetia posted...

i really dont care if you believe or dont believe in bigfoot and i really dont wanna talk about it
really dont know how to make this more clear

outspoken atheists are generally obnoxious and ironically holier than thou types

I mean atheism is the more logical, objective way. But presenting it as superior sends the wrong impression.

mistymermaid posted...

I mean atheism is the more logical, objective way. But presenting it as superior sends the wrong impression.

I dont necessarily think that atheism is automatically more logical and objective. Not all religion believes in an all powerful sky man that casts non-believers into a fire. I think a lot of people cling to religion in hopes of understanding the afterlife

Sega9599 posted...

Your whole post is good, but the atheists here don't like to identify with religious people. They're just as keen to present themselves as different from religious people, as they perceive religious people are keen to present themselves as different from nonbelievers. I guess it's all their own experience of aggressive over zealous religious people who are pedos and terrorists?

The 'correct' way to think here is to just be cynical and 'admit' there is nothing beyond what you see with your eyes.

This same cynicism you promote AGREES with religious thinking that an objective view of the world is somehow lower or baser than said religious thinking.