Board 8 > Most Evil Fictional Character: Johan Liebert vs. Charles Montgomery Burns

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Welcome to the 2023 edition of Most Evil Fictional Character, a single-elimination tournament to determine the most evil fictional character of all time!

Here's the bracket:

https://www.bracketmaker.com/tmenu.cfm?tid=477621&tclass=

And here's the discussion topic:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80568652

And here are the rules:

-First and foremost, YOU MUST BOLD YOUR VOTE FOR IT TO COUNT. The reason for this is that these topics encourage a lot of discussion and debate, and it helps me to distinguish a vote from simple discussion if all votes are bolded. So, I state again, ALL VOTES MUST BE BOLDED FOR THEM TO COUNT. I reserve the right to be lenient in early topics if people just aren't getting it, but for the most part, IF YOUR VOTE ISN'T BOLDED, IT WON'T COUNT.

-You must vote for which of the two characters you honestly believe to be the more evil of the two. You can determine this via any method you like, use your own morals and judgement, read all the arguments made to determine your choice, or however you choose to make your pick, but you must only vote for the one you truly believe is the most evil. This isn't a death battle, or a popularity contest. You're voting ONLY for the most evil character out of the two choices presented.

-While on that subject, remember that because this isn't a death battle or a fighting tournament, do your absolute best to consider the two characters as if their power levels were equal (either the weaker character brought up to the level of the strongest, or vice versa, or both if you want to consider both possibilities). Therefore, just because, for example, one of the characters blew up a planet and the other one merely kicked a puppy, doesn't necessarily mean the planet killer is more evil than the puppy kicker. Consider the characters as if they have the exact same capabilities and what they might do in that scenario.

-You can make any arguments, debates, etc. you want in this topic. Discussion is STRONGLY encouraged, a fun debate about which of the two characters is most evil is exactly what these topics are for. Just don't make it personal, no insults or flaming, keep things civil even if you disagree. Also, no vote rallying, if you want to encourage people to vote for your character you need to at least make some semblance of an argument as to why, even if it's just "Character X did (really dastardly thing), I can't believe no one's voting for them!"

-Voting will continue for exactly 24 hours after the post is made. If there's a tie, there will be a new 24 hour topic. This will continue indefinitely until a winner is determined.

-YOU MUST BOLD YOUR VOTE FOR IT TO COUNT.

-

The following write-ups will contain untagged SPOILERS for the anime and manga Monster and The Simpsons.

JOHAN LIEBERT

Johan Liebert is the primary antagonist of the anime and manga Monster.

Johan Liebert is a ruthless, emotionless, and psychopathic serial killer whose life was saved by Kenzo Tenma as a child. He is also the older twin of his sister Nina Fortner. Johan has stated that his one true goal is to be the last one alive when the world endsbut upon rediscovering a children's book that appeared to play a major role in his past, he instead set his mind on committing the "perfect suicide", i.e. dying without leaving behind any evidence of his existence (with the possible exception of Dr. Tenma's memories of him, in order to destroy Tenma's faith in humanity). His wanton cruelty and depthless malice do not appear to be humanized by traits or drives such as hatred, vengeance, lust, a point to prove, or even sadism; being fully aware of his nature and devoid of any need to justify himself, his actions are about as reasonless, emotionless, and nihilistic as he isthus possibly rendering his evil as literally pure and undiluted as can be, given his lack of any discernible gain from it or even a consistent identity. It is perhaps for this reason that he earns such condemnations as monster, devil, vampire, alienand for which Schuwald claims to have seen Hell itself in his eyes. The clear psychopathic tendencies he exhibits as a childalong with the hellish fate he inflicts upon the child-experimenting orphanage Kinderheim 511, even prior to most of his past traumasclearly prove that he is far from a victim of circumstance, given the premeditated and calculated murders of his foster families; a former director of said orphanage, Hartmann, admits himself that not even such an inhumane place could have crafted a "masterpiece" like Johan. His most consistent belief is that all life is insignificant, equal only in death. He possesses an equal capacity for psychological torture and can persuade nearly anybody to kill either others or themselves; whenever possible, however, Johan will subject his victims to the worst possible suffering and loss rather than killing them himself, which often drives them to suicide anyhowsuch as when he forces Helmut Wolf to watch his wife, children, and many friends and acquaintances all die one after the other, reducing him to a broken and paranoid wretch, despite he and Anna having been saved by Wolf from a near-death experience. Johan has expressed a similar lack of gratitude to Dr. Tenma, who had also saved his life, by poisoning his boss and coworkers, thereby framing Tenma for the murders due to his severe demotion prior to this.

vs.

CHARLES MONTGOMERY BURNS

Montgomery Burns is a character in The Simpsons.

Mr. Burns is an extremely greedy, cheap, tyrannical and egotistical businessman, and is the richest and most powerful citizen of Springfield. He is the oppressive founder and chairman of the Springfield Nuclear Power Plant. Mr. Burns embodies a number of stereotypes about corporate America, as he has an unquenchable desire to increase his own wealth and power, even through criminal means if necessary. Burns is also unconcerned and dispassionate for his employees' safety and well-being, even laughing at the sight of a window washer falling from a great height of a building. Mr. Burns resides in a vast, ornate mansion on an immense estate called Burns Manor, on the corner of Mammon and Croesus Streets. It is protected by a high wall, an electrified fence, and a pack of vicious attack dogs known as "The Hounds". Mr. Burns routinely subjects Springfield and its residents to his abuse and there is a general dislike of him throughout the town. Mr. Burns has blackmailed and bribed various officials in Springfield, including Mayor Quimby and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. He employed his wealth to make an ultimately unsuccessful run for governor to prevent his plant from being closed for safety violations, only to be denied his chance to be Governor by Marge Simpson. He once blocked out the sun to force Springfield residents to increase their use of electricity produced by his nuclear plant and was subsequently shot by Maggie when he tried to steal candy from her. Mr. Burns also made weapons for the Nazis during World War II, and took pride that they worked. It is revealed in the comic "Big House Homer" that he sold plutonium to third-world countries for vacation money. Further more, in the episode "The Computer Wore Menace Shoes", Homer spied on Burns selling deadly uranium to Middle-Eastern terrorists and ratted him out to the FBI. When a student at Yale tried to insult him by saying he was worse than Hitler, he replied that "it's too late for flattery". In "Raging Abe Simpson and His Grumbling Grandson in "The Curse of the Flying Hellfish"", he tried to kill Abe to cheat on a tontine, and later attempted to drown Bart.

Mr. Burns has a more broad operation and did a lot of bad things, but the problem is he has also done his fair share of good things willingly with no ulterior motive. He even became a superhero once.

I personally dock Johan a few points due to him basically trying to commit suicide without any larger plot and he does genuinely care about his sister (haven't seen bits of it in a long time so feel free to correct, but while he pulled crocodile tears for a lot things I think there were some other things that really got him and part of his whole suicide plan was to make his sister happy as he realized how fucked up he was)

Overall though, Johan Liebert is just way more and consistently more of a monster than Burns is.

Johan

More consistently evil = more evil imo.

I haven't voted in this contest before, but today is the rare day where I know both characters and I want to make an argument for Mr. Burns.

My reasoning is based in the caveat that we should consider characters at equal "power level". In the episode "The Old Man and the Lisa", Mr. Burns loses all his wealth and becomes a regular citizen. It looks like he's changed when he gets into recycling... but, by the end of the episode, he's created a recycling plant that also scoops up all nearby sea life and grinds it into slurry. Even as a regular guy, Burns manages immense, environmentally destructive evil. And that's when he's trying to do good! As Lisa put it, "You're still evil, and when you're trying to be good, you're even more evil!"

Johan, meanwhile, actually had a subplot where he was trying to get close to a lonely old man for access to wealth and political power. However, he wound up abandoning that plan in favor of another one that targeted far fewer people, albeit in a much more personal way. Even when he has the opportunity to acquire wealth and all the destructive power that comes with it, he opts for smaller scale evil. Johan is a nightmare on an individual level, but his evil is far more contained. The most he ever did was orchestrate a massacre in one small town. I can't picture him poisoning an entire town like Burns often does.

Mr. Burns hid toxic waste in trees at a public park, and that was after he stopped using playgrounds because all the bald children were starting to draw attention. I can't picture Johan ever doing something like that because it's too impersonal. And Burns is plenty capable of being personal too. He crippled Milhouse to inspire a sports team, and threatened to come back and finish the job unless the team won! He's got my vote in this for sure.

Roba has me convinced. Mr. Burns.

Evil doesn't just come in "murder."

Good argument for Mr. Burns, but I'm feeling Johan a bit more. I think if the Simpsons was shorter a series and there was less moments of Burns doing not so evil stuff ... I guess its like the Cartman argument all over again.

Yeah the Mr Burns argument definitely stops this from being the shutout I thought it'd be but I still gotta go Johan

Yeah the too many instances of goodness hurts Burns hard here. Even in that episode where he made that recycling plant, he still offers Lisa and the Simpson family 10% of the profits (a whopping 12 million dollars). He also protected Lisa from a hostile ram, putting himself between them and taking the blow for her.