Current Events > Arnold Schwarzenegger says it's best not to over-baby people. No wimps.

(+) Yeah! (+)

i do not agree with this mindset at all

this is the classic "bullies are not bad they toughen you up" kind of shit

You ever heard a hero arc that doesn't have a struggle? Shit is so lame. You only grow and improve when there's obstacles to overcome. Otherwise you get complacent

Sorta, but it depends on the circumstances surrounding it.

Isn't this cringe?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


It only looks bad to people who lack nuance and common sense.

also remember he's speaking as a bodybuilding Austrian immigrant who pushed himself into entertainment regardless of his work experience. He is right.

DKBananaSlamma posted...

You ever heard a hero arc that doesn't have a struggle? Shit is so lame. You only grow and improve when there's obstacles to overcome. Otherwise you get complacent

we are not talking about a fictional story we are talking about real life

This is entirely too vague.

"Don't coddle people" can be interpreted in many ways. It can be as reasonable as "Be honest with people, even if they may not like what they hear" to "We don't need therapy cause they didn't have that back in my day!"

And of course we have plenty of people who think being an absolute dick should come with zero consequences.

If growth can be had from it, rather than just suffering in silence, sure. Many people face struggles that can't be avoided,vans learning to deal and grow from that is good. But in the cases where growth can't happen, or situations where people need help, help them. Give them comfort, and aid.

It's not weakness to be stuck in a situation with no easy way out. It takes strength and courage to live a life of suffering, and I don't think a lot of people realize it respect that enough.

To a degree, yes. Coddling kids for years and years and not exposing them to any kind of adversity, setbacks, failures, troubles, or the like only result in them being wholly unprepared for adulthood when a bubble of protection no longer exists.

That's obviously not to say that bullying or abuse is good or that all protections are bad.

I think hes right, but his wording can lead to misinterpretation. You dont grow without resistance or adversity of some kind.

I dont think hes saying Deal with tough times, work a shit job, and enjoy your middle finger.

AceMos posted...

we are not talking about a fictional story we are talking about real life

This is real life. Why do you think boot camps are the way they are for thousands of years? Cuz it works.

The_Popo posted...

I think hes right, but his wording can lead to misinterpretation. You dont grow without resistance or adversity of some kind.

I dont think hes saying Deal with tough times, work a shit job, and enjoy your middle finger.

Exactly.

Arnold had two advantages that the modern generation does not have:

1) Legal use of steroids
2) Selective Nazi breeding

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/5/5/AAdlC_AAE8Xv.jpg

He hated his father, and rightly so, but he is still a product of the "lets mate the fittest male with the fittest female" mindset.

Not everyone can pump iron and achieve the same results that he did. Our parents married for love or settled for what they could get. They weren't a part of somebody's attempt to create a master race.

Boomers: I fought in wars and suffered so my kids won't have to.
Also Boomers: These kids are lazy and don't do anything. They need to go to war like me!

DKBananaSlamma posted...

This is real life. Why do you think boot camps are the way they are for thousands of years? Cuz it works.

and look at how soldiers tend to be AFTER war

they end up broken messes

AceMos posted...

we are not talking about a fictional story we are talking about real life

If this were a fictional story, we wouldn't be the heroes.

We would be the nameless humans being slaughtered by a bad guy.

It's one of those things that I can generally agree with but I would need to know what he means.

Like, sure we shouldn't over baby people but we shouldn't over anything to anyone right? What does over baby mean exactly? I dunno seems like the typical old person doesn't like what young people are doing thing but sure there's some truth in it

That's also why I think sports are a fundamental thing that all kids should be involved in. Learning to work on a team, how to lose, and how to improve through hard work and discipline to get better and win and useful lessons.

There are immediately three big problems with people saying this kind of inane crap:

1) it's said with the conceit that kids today don't know struggle, which is totally wrong. With the socio-political and economic landscape of today, and the increasingly heady mix of our ever-deepening understanding of child/youth psychology against the stubborn pushback from older, outdated mindsets, kids today - in some ways - know struggle better than any generation before them (in the context of the time in which they live)

2) the insistence that surrending yourself to a soul-crushing labor schedule makes one "tough" flies in the face of everything we know about burnout

3) the entire point of struggle is to change our lives and the world around us so our struggle can end

Also worth mentioning is that old people need to stfu with all the "feelings" nonsense already.

he's not wrong, the problem is how do you implement that exactly and it might not quite work with everyone but he has a point

We need Hunger Games.

That worked so well in Israel.

There is an element of truth here but only to a point. Its often taken to a toxic inflexible degree.

But competition can motivate well. Our immune systems need exposure to pathogens to properly develop. Need and pressure can fuel ideas and shock us into action. Crisis and suffering can bring people together. Challenges can bring pride and meaning. Being forced into things is sometimes needed to grow. Etc.

Too much struggle or for too long can crush any person. Too inflexible views crushes those who are capable in ways different from normal or before they ever get the chance to grow. Too much individualistic thinking creates dysfunctional societies or reckless behavior. A crisis can divide as easily as it unites or blindly unite. Etc.

Arnold I do think is a decent guy who tries to be good(certainly has his flaws though) and so I do think he means well here.

froghunter75 posted...

Like, sure we shouldn't over baby people but we shouldn't over anything to anyone right? What does over baby mean exactly?

It doesn't mean anything. It's thoughtless yammering from people who just want to be heard. It's noise that simply doesn't need to be said to anyone.

ZannoL posted...

"It's nice to be considerate. Yes, I totally agree with that," he added. "But let's not over-baby the kids, let's not over-baby people. Let's go and teach kids to be tough, to go out and do sports, to go and study, to struggle, and to go through these kind of painful moments sometimes

need a bit more context, since most people could easily agree with a bit more.

he could be speaking about shit from participation trophies to, "lol just man up" takes.

This is the approach my sister had to raising my nephew. He killed himself a few days ago, so yeah. Not sure about that one, Arnie.

TheLiarParadox posted...

This is the approach my sister had to raising my nephew. He killed himself a few days ago, so yeah. Not sure about that one, Arnie.

oh fuck *hug* im so sorry for your loss

TheLiarParadox posted...

This is the approach my sister had to raising my nephew. He killed himself a few days ago, so yeah. Not sure about that one, Arnie.

Omg, Im so sorry.

Thats just awful.

TheLiarParadox posted...

This is the approach my sister had to raising my nephew. He killed himself a few days ago, so yeah. Not sure about that one, Arnie.

Jeez, I'm sorry for your family's loss. That brings up another vital point: there are no hard and fast rules on how to treat kids, because they're humans with an infinite spectrum (not meaning autism) of personalities and emotional needs.

What's even the point of trying make make society better if everyone has to constantly struggle? I get it, some stress is good for personal growth, but the next generation shouldn't have to suffer like the one before for no good reason.

Doesn't help that the working class has been getting a raw deal for decades, and the younger generations see this and are tired of the shitty status quo.

Schwarzenegger clearly thinks that the human mind is a muscle and can only be strengthened by resistance training.

The real exercise for that is called 'education'.

TheLiarParadox posted...

This is the approach my sister had to raising my nephew. He killed himself a few days ago, so yeah. Not sure about that one, Arnie.

My condolences. No one should have to experience that.

real growth happens outside your comfort zone

I mean, it's both.

There is defenitly too much unnecessary suffering because of bad things and too much unnecessary whining because of incovenient things.

The problem is to draw an legit line.

AceMos posted...

i do not agree with this mindset at all

this is the classic "bullies are not bad they toughen you up" kind of shit

I mean, he was very pointed in saying that we should still be considerate to others. His message is that you should do difficult things, like exercising, because they make you a better person. Not that we should all be feral jerks to each other.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Yes.

CoyoteTheGreat posted...

I mean, he was very pointed in saying that we should still be considerate to others. His message is that you should do difficult things, like exercising, because they make you a better person. Not that we should all be feral jerks to each other.

Also yes.

"Allowing people to expand their horizons and learn through failure" is not "tolerating bullying" or "throwing them in at the deep end."

Overly smothering people leads to them developing a negative attachment style (anxious).

https://psychcentral.com/health/4-attachment-styles-in-relationships

That's what happened with me.

Karovorak posted...

I mean, it's both.

There is defenitly too much unnecessary suffering because of bad things and too much unnecessary whining because of incovenient things.

The problem is to draw a legit line.

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

Yeah this is "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" BS and lazily ignoring/justifying injustice and corruption of the wealthy

"It's your fault you're sick and poor. Just work harder" is bullshit

CE being constantly pessimistic and assuming worst case scenario intentions and implications never gets old.

cuttin_in_farm posted...

CE being constantly pessimistic and assuming worst case scenario intentions and implications never gets old.

I'm willing to believe that Arnold has honest-hearted intentions with what he said. That doesn't mean what he said was the thing to say. In the end it's just meaningless. It's always said with a tone as if there is a risk of a new reality unfolding where young people won't know emotional or physical challenge, and it's obviously untrue. It's never been true, and it'll never be true. Old people popping off with these masturbatory "pearls of wisdom" are just engaging in wholly impotent talk that's really only aimed at their peers, not youth. They're not speaking to the young people they're talking about.

cuttin_in_farm posted...

CE being constantly pessimistic and assuming worst case scenario intentions and implications never gets old.

*shrug*

Assuming the worst in people is natural when you've had a stress filled life.

That said, I don't think Arnold specifically means any harm. But a lot of the "tough love" mentality is quoted by people who don't actually love you. At all.

cuttin_in_farm posted...

CE being constantly pessimistic and assuming worst case scenario intentions and implications never gets old.

Dude is literally a Republican with a long history of abusing women.

You can't play the "You see what he actually meant was" card when he says right wing bullshit for decades.

UnfairRepresent posted...

Yeah this is "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" BS and lazily ignoring/justifying injustice and corruption of the wealthy

"It's your fault you're sick and poor. Just work harder" is bullshit

ah yes the age old the system is corrupt so ill just wallow in my misery and not do a thing about anything including my own happiness that has nothing to do with anyone else

Struggle in the sense of hard work and dedication is fine. Struggle in the sense of other people deliberately making your life miserable is not.

Yeah, I saw him on Conan's podcast talking about this. Some of it was great advice - like saying that experiencing failure and having a good support system is necessary for any kind of growth - but when he said that young people are too soft now, that's when he kind of loses me.