Current Events > Would you say most dudes in general don't know how to talk to women?

(+) Yeah! (+)

And are awkward with them?

It seems that so few dudes know how to effectively talk to women and flirt with them

I think a huge number of men dont actually see women as people and thats why they suck at talking to them.

In my experience both sides actually suck at talking to each other because of wildly varying expectations and wants

this might blow some peoples minds, but women get nervous too

Thats on point with a lot of single dudes I know

Cruciferous posted...

In my experience both sides actually suck at talking to each other because of wildly varying expectations and wants

this might blow some peoples minds, but women get nervous too

Plenty of women also suck at talking to men, and nerves is just one reason why they might.

No I wouldn't say that. It's a weird thing to say. Some people who have problems may simply be very shy or reserved. But I doubt that's the whole of the population.

Glob posted...

I think a huge number of men dont actually see women as people and thats why they suck at talking to them.

Yep...I'm awkward as shit, but real too. Don't put anyone on a pedestal, and realize they can suck ass too. It really makes a difference, and women i've noticed are really good at spotting bullshit, and desperation. Be yourself no matter what you really are.

I don't know about most; a slim majority of men still have relationships/sex with some regularity, right?

Glob posted...

I think a huge number of men dont actually see women as people and thats why they suck at talking to them.

The entire basis of PUA is that you can do the thing without doing the other thing.

Nintendo_Porn posted...

Be yourself no matter what you really are.

No, be a presentable version of yourself. The difference between your house normally vs your house when you want to sell it.

I mean, I'm a sadist at heart. I can't just go and be that way out in the open.

MAR10_KarT posted...

Would you say most dudes in general don't know how to talk

yes

Guide posted...

No, be a presentable version of yourself. The difference between your house normally vs your house when you want to sell it.

I mean, I'm a sadist at heart. I can't just go and be that way out in the open.

Its insane how many people dont realize this. Yeah sure it means being fake in some peoples eyes but there are some things best kept on the low.

Guide posted...

No, be a presentable version of yourself. The difference between your house normally vs your house when you want to sell it.

I mean, I'm a sadist at heart. I can't just go and be that way out in the open.

O_o Look up the game "Euphoria"

Nintendo_Porn posted...

O_o Look up the game "Euphoria"

...Thank you for this.

Glob posted...

I think a huge number of men dont actually see women as people and thats why they suck at talking to them.

I don't treat men and women differently. To me, they're all just other people. So I just treat them all the same.

Nintendo_Porn posted...

Yep...I'm awkward as shit, but real too. Don't put anyone on a pedestal, and realize they can suck ass too. It really makes a difference, and women i've noticed are really good at spotting bullshit, and desperation. Be yourself no matter what you really are.

I don't know how to talk to people in general on a personal level. At work it's fine, there's info I need from them and I can fill in the gaps with small talk, and send them on their way. But if it shifts to a more personal conversation I can't really deal with it. So it's really awkward for both of us. You must have an endearing kind of awkwardness, or have just been fortunate to find people that like you enough to move past that.

I don't think so. Most people aren't incels or chads, they're just normal and can socialize normally.

No. I think that the vast majority can get by the vast majority of the time.

We don't realize this because you don't ever hear people talking about how they have no real problems.

KogaSteelfang posted...

I don't treat men and women differently. To me, they're all just other people. So I just treat them all the same.

I don't know how to talk to people in general on a personal level. At work it's fine, there's info I need from them and I can fill in the gaps with small talk, and send them on their way. But if it shifts to a more personal conversation I can't really deal with it. So it's really awkward for both of us. You must have an endearing kind of awkwardness, or have just been fortunate to find people that like you enough to move past that.

Do i fail? Hell yes, but even "normal" people fail. That's the game...The damn game i avoided for 30 years...You actually get a benefit on the spectrum - a perspective others lack. I don't dwell on what they saw in me - just that i ride or fucking die as i believe in myself, and any woman would be lucky to have someone like me.

Just play the hand you were dealt, man. Let it ride because life is nuts.

Guide posted... ...Thank you for this.

You're welcome. Take your hand from down there long enough, and you realize it's a damn powerful story.

Guide posted...

The entire basis of PUA is that you can do the thing without doing the other thing.

Yes but PUA culture is toxic and dehumanising and strongly linked to sexual offences such as rape, so Im not sure thats the best approach to take.

yes

Nintendo_Porn posted...

Do i fail? Hell yes, but even "normal" people fail. That's the game...The damn game i avoided for 30 years...You actually get a benefit on the spectrum - a perspective others lack. I don't dwell on what they saw in me - just that i ride or fucking die as i believe in myself, and any woman would be lucky to have someone like me.

Just play the hand you were dealt, man. Let it ride because life is nuts.

True, they would be lucky to have you. The hand I was dealt isn't like that. So, yeah. Anyway, it doesn't matter. I'm not meant to be with anyone.

Says who besides You? You obviously didn't draw aces and 8's, so you do have a chance. The world ends with you. You only get one shot at life, so don't waste your time with fatalistic ideals.

Ewww...i sound like stero again. Been hanging around that dude too much, and now i feel gross.

Look, i know it sucks, but you gotta realize there is something you can offer someone no one else can, and you have a talent.

Its doesnt come as easy to some men as others admittedly. And there no way to teach it frankly without coming coming across as a PUA or something.

Unfortunately

Guys that struggle talk to women probably have bad social skills in general.

ArtiRock posted...

Guys that struggle talk to women probably have bad social skills in general.

I agree. A lot of the incel forever alone crowd tend to not have many friends either.

ArtiRock posted...

Guys that struggle talk to women probably have bad social skills in general.

Or they have friends/socialize but are misogynistic.

CSCA33 posted...

Or they have friends/socialize but are misogynistic.

Plenty of married misogynists. Actually, I think it's more likely to have friends and socialize, but just be bad at it still. There's always that one guy that's off.

^this is true

Glob posted...

I think a huge number of men dont actually see women as people and thats why they suck at talking to them.

I think that's a common misconception, though it might apply for very young men.

This is way too much thought to put into this. Talking to women is like breathing. You just kind of automatically do it...except for now. Now that I've brought it up I'm doing it manually and it's definitely awkward and weird. Don't do what I did here. Just auto pilot it

Nintendo_Porn posted...

Do i fail? Hell yes, but even "normal" people fail. That's the game...The damn game i avoided for 30 years...You actually get a benefit on the spectrum - a perspective others lack. I don't dwell on what they saw in me - just that i ride or fucking die as i believe in myself, and any woman would be lucky to have someone like me.

Just play the hand you were dealt, man. Let it ride because life is nuts.

You're welcome. Take your hand from down there long enough, and you realize it's a damn powerful story.

The patrician knows that plot is important for maximum lewd.

Joelypoely posted...

I think that's a common misconception, though it might apply for very young men.

Ive no idea why you would say that.

When dudes like Adam Levine even sounding like complete goobers, I'm gonna go with yes.

Glob posted...

Ive no idea why you would say that.

In general I don't think many people struggle at viewing/treating the other sex like people. Other than maybe young people who haven't had much experience with the other sex, possibly feeling too anxious to view them normally.

Joelypoely posted...

In general I don't think many people struggle at viewing/treating the other sex like people. Other than maybe young people who haven't had much experience with the other sex, possibly feeling too anxious to view them normally.

I think it has become much more of a problem in the last couple of generations, and is the driving force behind the rise of incel culture, pick up artists and MGTOW.

Glob posted...

I think it has become much more of a problem in the last couple of generations, and is the driving force behind the rise of incel culture, pick up artists and MGTOW.

Depends on what you mean by treating women like people. Or maybe it's less about that and more about the distribution and extremism.

You have these extremist movements, but until very recently, it was just assumed, on a broad scale, that women were emotionally weaker and overall less capable than men.

Glob posted...

I agree. A lot of the incel forever alone crowd tend to not have many friends either.

A lot of the incel forever alone crowd have extremely low self esteem...

Nintendo_Porn posted...

Look, i know it sucks, but you gotta realize there is something you can offer someone no one else can, and you have a talent.

...and find statements like this to be about as believable as being told they can fly.

I have no problem talking to others, be them men or women.

I have do this daily during my job anyways, talking with customers, holding meetings, trainings, and so on.

But I have really really really big issues with closing some gap.

I have no issue with talking to friends, customers or coworkers at all. I also have no issue talking with people online, be them random party mates, or some people in the same guild.

But I'm somewhat unable to go further on my own. Talking to strangers and find the right pace to get even closer? That's some problem for me.

And that includes stuff like "just talk to a woman in a bar".

willythemailboy posted...

A lot of the incel forever alone crowd have extremely low self esteem...

Youre not wrong. Many of them do have self-esteem issues. Another sizeable chunk have issues with overconfidence, egotism and entitlement. Its not a one size fits all demographic.

if a majority of men didnt know how to talk to women then the human race would have ended due to lack of births so ill say no

too many men on the internet have no idea how to treat women as equals and therefore cant have an honest and open conversation with them

Glob posted...

I think a huge number of men dont actually see women as people and thats why they suck at talking to them.

Way to project yourself

Cobra1010 posted...

Way to project yourself

unnecessary defensive post is quite telling

Cobra1010 posted...

Way to project yourself

In what way is that projecting? I dont struggle to talk to women.

But theres plenty of men out there who believe that they cant possibly be friends with women. That tells me that they only see women as sex objects. The majority of my friends are women.

i suck at talking to people, period
got nothing to do with gender

I have no issues talking to people in general, but I also dont attempt to flirt.

I would say: keep it simple. Theres no need to pressure yourself or feel any pressure to socialize.

Glob posted...

In what way is that projecting? I dont struggle to talk to women.

But theres plenty of men out there who believe that they cant possibly be friends with women. That tells me that they only see women as sex objects. The majority of my friends are women.

This. I knew this is what you meant by many guys not treating them as people. When I meet women, I actually treat them as potential friends first and don't worry about sex and such. And a few years ago, I was about 50/50 with having male and female friends.

However, several of these women ended up being interested in me. Some I never really dated, and some I dated short term, but I now lost touch with them, especially once I started dating my fiance. It should be noted that she was my friend for 3 years first, and I truly never expected anything. It's kinda crazy actually.

Did you never have this problem, Glob? I know men and women can be friends, as I still have a few, but things got messy for a bit.

Why would I want to talk to women?

inherently calling it "talking to women" is probably a big reason why internet people fail.

HBOSS posted...

I would say: keep it simple. Theres no need to pressure yourself or feel any pressure to socialize.

Basically this. People are overthinking this. Being mindful, present, engaged and simply listening to what the other person has to say is 90% of socializing. You don't need to be some crazy smooth talker, or spit game to talk to women.