Current Events > Judge Arthur Engoron ruled that Trump defrauded banks and insurers

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CableZL
09/26/23 4:42:11 PM
#1:


https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-letitia-james-fraud-lawsuit-1569245a9284427117b8d3ba5da74249

Judge Arthur Engoron, ruling Tuesday in a civil lawsuit brought by New Yorks attorney general, found that the former president and his company deceived banks, insurers and others by massively overvaluing his assets and exaggerating his net worth on paperwork used in making deals and securing financing.

The decision, days before the start of a non-jury trial in Attorney General Letitia James lawsuit, is the strongest repudiation yet of Trumps carefully coiffed image as a wealthy and shrewd real estate mogul turned political powerhouse.

Engorons ruling, in a phase of the case known as summary judgment, resolves the key claim in James lawsuit, but six others remain.

Engoron is slated to hold a non-jury trial starting Oct. 2 before deciding on those claims and any punishments he may impose. James is seeking $250 million in penalties and a ban on Trump doing business in New York, his home state. The trial could last into December, Engoron has said.

This is the judge for New York v Trump. New York AG Letitia James brought a civil suit against Donald Trump, Donald Trump Jr, Eric Trump, and Ivanka Trump for lying to banks, insurers, and New York state tax authorities about the value of their assets. Ivanka Trump was dropped from the lawsuit by an appeals court, though.

The trial is supposed to start next week, but I've been reading that a last minute appeal by Trump put the trial on hold... Trying to find more details about that since I haven't heard anything for about a week or so.

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Were_Wyrm
09/26/23 4:44:08 PM
#2:


When the first domino falls
https://blog.imgur.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/IazJWlU.jpg

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#3
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Humble_Novice
09/26/23 4:47:43 PM
#4:


The gears of justice grind slowly yet surely.

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CableZL
09/26/23 4:54:45 PM
#5:


https://twitter.com/KatiePhang/status/1706773019476004882

https://twitter.com/KatiePhang/status/1706773908320350325/photo/1

Now to figure out what it means for certificates to be canceled... Maybe later.

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UltimateWing
09/26/23 4:58:42 PM
#6:


Canceled. LOL!

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TomClark
09/26/23 5:01:47 PM
#7:


https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/1/1/AAABqgAAErXj.jpg

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Humble_Novice
09/26/23 5:02:29 PM
#8:


https://twitter.com/KatiePhang/status/1706774621469753417

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CableZL
09/26/23 5:04:05 PM
#9:


How many Trump lawyers will be sanctioned/disciplined/disbarred by the time the dust settles?

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Block_that_Kick
09/26/23 5:14:13 PM
#10:


So yeah, the Trump Organization is probably going away.

https://twitter.com/JoyceWhiteVance/status/1706777079608651920

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Kradek
09/26/23 5:19:44 PM
#11:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


For real.

It's amazing how much of Trump's criminal activity is seemingly so well-known and yet nothing's been done about it until recently. Dude has definitely lived a charmed life until becoming POTUS, ironically.


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CableZL
09/26/23 5:22:13 PM
#12:


Kradek posted...
For real.

It's amazing how much of Trump's criminal activity is seemingly so well-known and yet nothing's been done about it until recently. Dude has definitely lived a charmed life until becoming POTUS, ironically.

Yeah, all he has faced prior to this year are a number of civil suits that only resulted in him having to pay fines that pale in comparison to the profit he made off of his fraudulent activity. Having to dissolve the Trump Organization (assuming that's what's going to happen) is probably the most significant penalty he's ever had, and the trial hasn't even started.

Also... in regard to criminality in general, is it common for people who commit crimes to face 91 felony charges like Trump is at the moment?

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Kradek
09/26/23 5:24:08 PM
#13:


CableZL posted...
Also... in regard to criminality in general, is it common for people who commit crimes to face 91 felony charges like Trump is at the moment?

I'm sure there's people who have had more felony charges, however Trump's probably the only person who could be walking around free while a good portion of those are literally espionage charges (the documents case).

I don't think anybody else could have those espionage charges and still be walking around.

That right there is just more proof about how the "two-tiered justice system" is still benefiting him.

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Starks
09/26/23 5:24:45 PM
#14:


Wow, corporate death penalty.

I assume this will go all the way up to the court of appeals, which is our actual Supreme Court.

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Bass
09/26/23 5:25:18 PM
#15:


https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/7/2/AAI-cmAAE4B4.jpg

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CableZL
09/26/23 5:26:05 PM
#16:


Starks posted...
Wow, corporate death penalty.

I assume this will go all the way up to the court of appeals, which is our actual Supreme Court.

Yeah, I'd say that's likely...

I began to ask how Trump would explain away the obvious fraud he has been committing in their appeals, but... They're going to appeal any way so I guess we'll just have to wait and see what ridiculous statements they make in their court filings.

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littlebro07
09/26/23 5:28:47 PM
#17:


Get

FUCKED

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Takuya_Lee
09/26/23 5:31:39 PM
#18:


CableZL posted...
How many Trump lawyers will be sanctioned/disciplined/disbarred by the time the dust settles?

All of them. Hopefully

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divot1338
09/26/23 5:34:02 PM
#19:


CableZL posted...
https://twitter.com/KatiePhang/status/1706773019476004882

https://twitter.com/KatiePhang/status/1706773908320350325/photo/1

Now to figure out what it means for certificates to be canceled... Maybe later.
Trump Inc just got shut down.

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TomClark
09/26/23 5:36:13 PM
#20:


Takuya_Lee posted...
All of them. Hopefully

I personally can't wait until one of them inevitably tries the "I can't get in trouble for things I said or did when acting as Trump's legal council because he never paid me, therefore I can't have been his lawyer - at worst I was a pal who gave bad advice!" argument.

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1NfamousACE_2
09/26/23 5:38:09 PM
#21:


So whats this upcoming civil trial for?

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mystic_belmont
09/26/23 5:38:19 PM
#22:


Hahahahahahahahahahhahahah!

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Starks
09/26/23 5:38:44 PM
#23:


CableZL posted...
Yeah, I'd say that's likely...

I began to ask how Trump would explain away the obvious fraud he has been committing in their appeals, but... They're going to appeal any way so I guess we'll just have to wait and see what ridiculous statements they make in their court filings.
An appeal cannot overturn findings of fact, just errors in procedure.

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Takuya_Lee
09/26/23 5:39:05 PM
#24:


1NfamousACE_2 posted...
So whats this upcoming civil trial for?

Damages I think.

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mystic_belmont
09/26/23 5:39:16 PM
#25:


After noting that Trump submitted statements falsely claiming that the Trump Tower apartment in which he resided for decades was nearly three times its actual size, the judge wrote, a discrepancy of this order of magnitude, by a real estate developer sizing up his own living space of decades, can only be considered fraud.

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mystic_belmont
09/26/23 5:42:14 PM
#26:


Trump has ten days to find three people to handle the deletion of his business "empire".

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CableZL
09/26/23 5:43:46 PM
#27:


1NfamousACE_2 posted...
So whats this upcoming civil trial for?

New York AG Letitia James brought a civil lawsuit against Trump and his adult children. The relief she's seeking:
  • $250,000,000 fine
  • 5-year ban on the company conducting real-estate transactions in the state
  • Permanently ban Trump and his adult children from officiating or directing any business or corporation in the state.
  • Bar the Trump Organization from doing business in the state


Letitia James also said there is evidence of potential criminal insurance and bank fraud that she has referred to federal prosecutors and the IRS.

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CableZL
09/26/23 5:44:26 PM
#28:


Starks posted...
An appeal cannot overturn findings of fact, just errors in procedure.

That's good to know.

I'm guessing they're going to appeal any way and likely get shot down.

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mystic_belmont
09/26/23 5:44:45 PM
#29:


CableZL posted...
Letitia James also said there is evidence of potential criminal insurance and bank fraud that she has referred to federal prosecutors and the IRS.

I mean, didn't he say one thing to banks and another to the IRS?

That's fraud.

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CableZL
09/26/23 5:45:18 PM
#30:


mystic_belmont posted...
I mean, didn't he say one thing to banks and another to the IRS?

That's fraud.

Yep. Hopefully federal prosecutors take action on that.

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Kai_Laguna
09/26/23 5:50:45 PM
#31:


Didn't the cheeto already start Trump Organization II to get around this?
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HairyQueen
09/26/23 5:51:23 PM
#32:


It's time the Trump crime family faces accountability

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Takuya_Lee
09/26/23 5:52:18 PM
#33:


mystic_belmont posted...
Trump has ten days to find three people to handle the deletion of his business "empire".

Where's he going to find 3 idio...I mean willing participants at?

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CableZL
09/26/23 5:52:22 PM
#34:


Kai_Laguna posted...
Didn't the cheeto already start Trump Organization II to get around this?

LOL, yeah, but Letitia James caught it. The court appointed a financial monitor after Letitia James requested it.

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mystic_belmont
09/26/23 5:56:05 PM
#35:


Takuya_Lee posted...
Where's he going to find 3 idio...I mean willing participants at?

I'll do it. All his assets to the lowest bidder.

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mystic_belmont
09/26/23 5:56:44 PM
#36:


CableZL posted...
LOL, yeah, but Letitia James caught it. The court appointed a financial monitor after Letitia James requested it.

Can you imagined having so little imagination that you name your fake company the number two?

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CableZL
09/26/23 5:57:09 PM
#37:


mystic_belmont posted...
I'll do it. All his assets to the lowest bidder.


https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/8/2/AABjoOAAE4CC.jpg

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Error1355
09/26/23 5:57:46 PM
#38:


I'm not a lawyer or a businessman, but I do think this is probably a bad thing to happen to your company.

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Voidgolem
09/26/23 5:58:52 PM
#39:


Cynical musing: y'know, if he just took the election loss and fucked off, nothing would've happened to him, probably.

Entertaining.

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mystic_belmont
09/26/23 5:59:35 PM
#40:


Voidgolem posted...
Cynical musing: y'know, if he just took the election loss and fucked off, nothing would've happened to him, probably.

Entertaining.

If he had never run at all, no one would have given a shit, or even looked. Being President puts so many eyes on you.

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#41
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hockeybub89
09/26/23 6:00:24 PM
#42:


Republicans will pretend Trump wasn't a known scumbag years before he ran against Hillary for President.

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CableZL
09/26/23 6:00:55 PM
#43:


MSNBC is talking about this now

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Tyranthraxus
09/26/23 6:04:05 PM
#44:


CableZL posted...
Also... in regard to criminality in general, is it common for people who commit crimes to face 91 felony charges like Trump is at the moment?
Most of those counts are from the documents case.

His other indictments are normal in quantity

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ThePieReborn
09/26/23 6:06:02 PM
#45:


Starks posted...
An appeal cannot overturn findings of fact, just errors in procedure.
Unless New York is different (which it may be; out of my jurisdiction), civil case fact findings are generally subject to clear error review on appeal.

So still 99% chance of appeal beings DOA on this unless there's a special principle setting New York apart from the jurisdictions I've practiced in.

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CableZL
09/26/23 6:10:45 PM
#46:


Tyranthraxus posted...
Most of those counts are from the documents case.

His other indictments are normal in quantity

Regardless of where the counts are from, is it common for a criminal defendant to be facing 91 felony counts?
  • Manhattan fraud case: 34
  • Classified documents case: 40
  • January 6th case: 4
  • Georgia RICO case: 13


The only thing that comes to my mind recently is Darrell Brooks (Waukesha parade murderer) who was facing 76 counts, I believe.


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Tyranthraxus
09/26/23 6:13:41 PM
#47:


CableZL posted...
Regardless of where the counts are from, is it common for a criminal defendant to be facing 91 felony counts?
Depends on the crime. I know in illegal pornography cases the prosecutors like to charge for every single photo which regularly causes hundreds/thousands of counts.

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CableZL
09/26/23 6:15:15 PM
#48:


Tyranthraxus posted...
Depends on the crime. I know in illegal pornography cases the prosecutors like to charge for every single photo which regularly causes hundreds/thousands of counts.
Yeah, that's true. Good point.

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UltimateWing
09/26/23 6:22:41 PM
#49:


https://www.twitter.com/AntiToxicPeople/status/1706793295958204691

Oh no. Eric is crying unfair. Poor guy.

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Takuya_Lee
09/26/23 6:26:03 PM
#50:


UltimateWing posted...
https://www.twitter.com/AntiToxicPeople/status/1706793295958204691

Oh no. Eric is crying unfair. Poor guy.

He's trying to beat Jr to get dad's love first

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