Current Events > is there ANY "good" argument against vegetarianism?

(+) Yeah! (+)

beyond "hurrrr meet taste gud"

It's the only argument I need Sean!

Making sure I don't live to be too old lol

Only immoral ones.

The human body has evolved to consume both plants and animals, flora and fauna.

Vegetables taste weird to me I not used to that stuff

The most notable would be that whatever your reason for being a vegetarian, you are likely half-assing it by not just going full vegan.

Which as a vegetarian...isn't incorrect. One of the reasons I am a vegetarian is the environmental harms caused by the meat industry, but the dairy industry isn't much better...but I just like cheese, butter, and ice cream enough look past it. The same applies to things like animal cruelty.

Not enough arable land?
Would have to kill more plant eaters to prevent damage on crops.

Vitamin B12. Its difficult to get enough without meat and supplements arent necessarily vegetarian. Also people with certain conditions. My son has a faulty MTRFR gene, and its difficult to find vegetarian sources of L-methyl folate.

None of this is impossible, just not easy and sometimes expensive.

Avirosb posted...

Not enough arable land?
Would have to kill more plant eaters to prevent damage on crops.

The land argument collapsed pretty hard when you realize that a huge amount of farm land is solely dedicated to feeding livestock. So we'd actually have more farmland available if we didn't have a meat industry.

Compsognathus posted...

The most notable would be that whatever your reason for being a vegetarian, you are likely half-assing it by not just going full vegan.

Which as a vegetarian...isn't incorrect. One of the reasons I am a vegetarian is the environmental harms caused by the meat industry, but the dairy industry isn't much better...but I just like cheese, butter, and ice cream enough look past it. The same applies to things like animal cruelty.

This. Being vegetarian means you still consume some animal products. Can't really hold it against meat eaters in that scenario.

Live and let live I say. My mom is vegan and my gf is vegetarian, but they don't try to force it on others

Avirosb posted...

Not enough arable land?
Would have to kill more plant eaters to prevent damage on crops.

LOL I don't even know where to begin

humans=need crops
farm animals= need a LOT more crops

when human eat animal many many crops needed much more crops than if human just eat plants

mystic_belmont posted...

The human body has evolved to consume both plants and animals, flora and fauna.

the human body has evolved to kill and murder, does that make it okay?

Compsognathus posted...

The most notable would be that whatever your reason for being a vegetarian, you are likely half-assing it by not just going full vegan.

Which as a vegetarian...isn't incorrect. One of the reasons I am a vegetarian is the environmental harms caused by the meat industry, but the dairy industry isn't much better...but I just like cheese, butter, and ice cream enough look past it. The same applies to things like animal cruelty.

I'm kinda in the same boat, at home I don't buy cheese and use avocado oil-based butter so I'm fully vegan when cooking at home but when I go out to eat it's rly hard to find good vegan options so I usually just deal with it

Compsognathus posted...

The land argument collapsed pretty hard when you realize that a huge amount of farm land is solely dedicated to feeding livestock. So we'd actually have more farmland available if we didn't have a meat industry.

Here in Norway we don't have a lot of farmland, no.
Animals eat grass yes. Grass is not hard to cultivate.

Lanzol posted...

LOL I don't even know where to begin

humans=need crops
farm animals= need a LOT more crops

when human eat animal many many crops needed much more crops than if human just eat plants

the human body has evolved to kill and murder, does that make it okay?

I'm kinda in the same boat, at home I don't buy cheese and use avocado oil-based butter so I'm fully vegan when cooking at home but when I go out to eat it's rly hard to find good vegan options so I usually just deal with it

As far as full vegans go you make for a poor ambassador.

im vegetarian but preference vegan cooking. ill use vegan cheese but then use regular mayo tho. i try to limit dairy but cant really avoid it at restaurants

i dont eat any meat or seafood or products made from them (lard, gelatin, fish stock, etc)

The same argument against any restrictive diet, which is to say, its harder to get some nutrients if you arbitrarily cut out an entire genre of food (That isn't junk food). On a moral or environmental scale, obviously vegetarianism is more sustainable, but it isn't better for your body (But it is also less hard to say, get the correct amount of high quality protein than say, veganism.)

also animals don't "eat grass" in a factory farm, they eat soybeans and corn.

Cause, on a mass scale, it is untenable as an ethical food source. You have to have a certain degree of privilege to even get ethically sourced veggies on a reliable and affordable basis.

Sariana21 posted...

Vitamin B12. Its difficult to get enough without meat and supplements arent necessarily vegetarian. Also people with certain conditions. My son has a faulty MTRFR gene, and its difficult to find vegetarian sources of L-methyl folate.

None of this is impossible, just not easy and sometimes expensive.

This is actually why I said vegetarian and not vegan

altho there are vegan sources of both, it's def easier to eat like yogurt and eggs

I'm not opposed to dairy consumption inherently because for a lot of people they really depend on it, and I feel like we can have humane ways of harvesting eggs and milk, it's just that 99% of the time it's completely awful

Plant murder isn't suddenly ethical just because we can't comprehend their screams

Robot2600 posted...

also animals don't "eat grass" in a factory farm, they eat soybeans and corn.

Can't really grow corn in most of Norway. Too cold.

Killing plants is straight up taking a life, murder. So I like my murder savory.

B12 dependency

Avirosb posted...

Can't really grow corn in most of Norway. Too cold.

I don't think Norway actually has a self-sufficient meat industry, which means they are importing from countries that are using corn/soy fed meat.

The issue with grass-fed, free range meat is that it is nowhere near efficient enough to meat the demand of meat consumption.

Lanzol posted...

beyond

Eating meat is a natural part of humanity and our biological makeup tells us we are at least partially intended to eat it.

Plus the meat is real friggin good

Compsognathus posted...

I don't think Norway actually has a self-sufficient meat industry, which means they are importing from countries that are using corn/soy fed meat.

The issue with grass-fed, free range meat is that it is nowhere near efficient enough to meat the demand of meat consumption.

We try to avoid importing meat from the US at least. We kind of have an EU protocol to adhere to.

Herbivores spend their whole day eating so in colder climates that would add up fast.

Animals are tasty.

If I had even 10% more willpower and self control I would at least go flexitarian (not sure if that's a real term but I've heard it used and defined as a vegetarian who occasionally indulges in meat) where I would eat meat maybe once or twice a month.

Yes: vegetables are gross

Relient_K posted...

If I had even 10% more willpower and self control I would at least go flexitarian (not sure if that's a real term but I've heard it used and defined as a vegetarian who occasionally indulges in meat) where I would eat meat maybe once or twice a month.

Yeah, that's not vegetarian.

It's on the same level as "I don't eat meat, just chicken and fish".

"Because I like the taste of meat" is a perfectly good and valid reason.

Also, to some cultures consuming meat is an important part of their cuisine. So that is a good reason to me.

Raikuro posted...

Plant murder isn't suddenly ethical just because we can't comprehend their screams

Cocytus posted...

Killing plants is straight up taking a life, murder. So I like my murder savory.

If you really cared about plants, you'd support vegetarianism since a large plant of plants that we grow is used solely to feed animals.

Vegetarianism requires less farmland

emblem-man posted...

If you really cared about plants, you'd support vegetarianism since a large plant of plants that we grow is used solely to feed animals.

Vegetarianism requires less farmland

It requires the death of plants.

emblem-man posted...

If you really cared about plants, you'd support vegetarianism since a large plant of plants that we grow is used solely to feed animals.

Vegetarianism requires less farmland

People say this but where are plants supposed to grow naturally in this rocky climate?

To answer the question, as someone who does try to mainly eat vegetarian and think eating meal is immoral..., I think the only good argument is just that it's easier to not have a restrictive diet. Meat is tastier, it's more readily available, etc.

If we all stopped eating meat the cow and chicken populations would get totally out of control.

Cocytus posted...

It requires the death of plants.

And feeding animals plants takes even more deaths.

Avirosb posted...

People say this but where are plants supposed to grow naturally in this rocky climate?

If it can't be grown in an environment, then it can't be grown. I'm not saying everywhere has good farmland. My point was just that a lot of land and grains is used for feeding animals.

BewmHedshot posted...

If we all stopped eating meat the cow and chicken populations would get totally out of control.

Wouldn't they just slowly die out as we slowly reduce our meat consumption ? We only have so much of them because we breed them so much to meet demand. I don't think anyone is saying we'd be able to stop eating meat at the snap of a finger. Demand goes down, and less animals are bred to be killed

emblem-man posted...

And feeding animals plants takes even more deaths.

Redeemed from being in the food cycle.

Some of you guys need to go to Bovine University.

BewmHedshot posted...

If we all stopped eating meat the cow and chicken populations would get totally out of control.

They'd be culled immediately.

Cocytus posted...

Redeemed from being in the food cycle.

?

emblem-man posted...

Wouldn't they just slowly die out as we slowly reduce our meat consumption ? We only have so much of them because we breed them so much to meet demand. I don't think anyone is saying we'd be able to stop eating meat at the snap of a finger. Demand goes down, and less animals are bred to be killed

I dunno. Let's ask Australia.

uhh, you can reject the argument that killing animals and eating animals sublates to human social encounters. i don't really think vege will make humans less violent to each other

Avirosb posted...

I dunno. Let's ask Australia.

?

emblem-man posted...

?

Invasive species tend to do the opposite of dying out.

Avirosb posted...

Invasive species tend to do the opposite of dying out.

And chickens and cows are not invasive species, and are instead a bit like heirloom turkeys in that they would die out pretty much instantly if they weren't being actively cultivated.

Avirosb posted...

Invasive species tend to do the opposite of dying out.

I guess I find it difficult to fully see that. If animal agriculture places forcible breed less, that would be a dramatic decrease in the number of them correct?

ellis123 posted...

And chickens and cows are not invasive species, and are instead a bit like heirloom turkeys in that they would die out pretty much instantly if they weren't being actively cultivated.

Of course, active cultivation involves killing off most of the male members of the species.
Let the bulls roam free with their big saggy balls and whatever happens happens.