Current Events > Luffy actually beats Goku (warning current anime arc major MAJOR spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Not only is Luffy ridiculously strong but currently it doesn't matter how strong his opponent is because he can sink them into his cartoon nonsense.
Luffy can literally punch a guy in the head and his fist come out the other side of their head not because Luffy punched them so hard it tore a hole in their head but because he turned them into a cartoon and that was a funny gag that should happen.
He can grab lighting and turn it into a spear not because that makes sense in reality but because it is a thing a cartoon can do.

But that doesn't only apply to other things like Goku's body or the environment but Luffy himself. Even with Goku's strongest punched ever it would just be that Luffy head would stretch out infinitely as Luffy cries in pain before he draws it back to himself like nothing happened.

Also of note is Luffy is basically One Piece version of Jesus now. Literally comes back to life if you kill him.
When he starts healing blind people and making guys with no legs walk we need to watch out.

I like to equate Gear 5th to The Mask. That's what Luffy basically is now, The Mask. And I love it.

Gear 5 Luffy couldn't even knock out Rob Lucci easily. Goku post King Kai training stomps

voldothegr8 posted...

I like to equate Gear 5th to The Mask. That's what Luffy basically is now, The Mask. And I love it.

Except it would be like if a guy who could already punch mountains to dust put on the Mask.

AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

Gear 5 Luffy couldn't even knock out Rob Lucci easily. Goku post King Kai training stomps

Are we reading the same manga? Luffy landed just a few shots and that was more than enough to KO Lucci's ultimate form.

Yeah, there's no real way to beat toon force

Nonsense. One Piece is written about a thousand times better than DragonBall, but One Piece doesnt scale anywhere close to even early series Z.

voldothegr8 posted...

Are we reading the same manga? Luffy landed just a few shots and that was more than enough to KO Lucci's ultimate form.

Ah yeah I just reread it and it was a little more one sided than I remembered. Kizaru will probably knock Luffy down a few pegs though now, no way Luffy is at peak power yet. And no way does he have some "toon force" invulnerability like The Mask

No

AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

Ah yeah I just reread it and it was a little more one sided than I remembered.

That was the "Goku must be the strongest!" cope effecting your memory.

AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

Kizaru will probably knock Luffy down a few pegs though now

And? Dude is literally light incarnate but tag spoilers after the current anime episode please.

AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

Ah yeah I just reread it and it was a little more one sided than I remembered. Kizaru will probably knock Luffy down a few pegs though now, no way Luffy is at peak power yet. And no way does he have some "toon force" invulnerability like The Mask

I can't wait for Kizaru to deal with some Bugs Bunny shit lmao. I have a feeling Oda will hit us with some fine hilarity.

Also, very possible he's at peak power. There are still DF weaknesses, and BB has a direct counter to seemingly everything. Just because he's at peak power doesn't mean he just plows through to Laugh Tale. Still plenty of obstacle left.

Goku is far beyond a planet buster level.

I don't care what Luffy is, he won't survive without a planet to live on.

Eh, we've only seen toon force once, so the real limits (or lack thereof) makes the comparison impossible. If it's "true" toon force, like the Mask comparison, then yes, he's basically unkillable or stoppable. Strength and power become irrelevant, since he could basically warp reality. That said, he still got hurt in Gear 5, so it's unlikely it's THAT extreme, but who knows.

Aside from the normal "who wins in a battle" nonsense always being a crap soot.

an amusing consideration for those who try to quantify powerlevels

Magetta lava actually hurt Vegeta
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-JcyfhwLuE

Akainu could actually kill Goku or Vegeta.

Of course fans will try to argue this inconsistency away and make excuses for it. Laughable.

Similar Goku needed a suit to go to earth core.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/1/1/AAefUOAAEy1r.jpg

This is super episode 68 near the end.
Some will argue this is filler but that don't work when Magetta spits lava and nearly kills Vegeta.

WingsOfGood posted...

an amusing consideration for those who try to quantify powerlevels

Magetta lava actually hurt Vegeta
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-JcyfhwLuE

Akainu could actually kill Goku or Vegeta.

Of course fans will try to argue this inconsistency away and make excuses for it. Laughable.

Similar Goku needed a suit to go to earth core.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/1/1/AAefUOAAEy1r.jpg

This is super episode 68 near the end.
Some will argue this is filler but that don't work when Magetta spits lava and nearly kills Vegeta.

I'm pretty sure Goku and Broly were at one point duking it out in a lava pool.

voldothegr8 posted...

I'm pretty sure Goku and Broly were at one point duking it out in a lava pool.

And SSJ Goku survived being hit into Namek's core or whatever just fine when fighting Frieza

I don't read that Naturo crap

voldothegr8 posted...

'm pretty sure Goku and Broly were at one point duking it out in a lava pool.

That don't erase the post you just quoted.

VFalcone posted...

And SSJ Goku survived being hit into Namek's core or whatever just fine when fighting Frieza

just goes to show people trying to take one thing that happens in the manga and say this means Goku wins are standing on shaky logic.

Later in the series Lava was a threat.
But keep in mind Akainu isn't just lava but Haki and whatever else. He could punch a whole in these guys easy as pie.

voldothegr8 posted...

I can't wait for Kizaru to deal with some Bugs Bunny shit lmao. I have a feeling Oda will hit us with some fine hilarity.

Also, very possible he's at peak power. There are still DF weaknesses, and BB has a direct counter to seemingly everything. Just because he's at peak power doesn't mean he just plows through to Laugh Tale. Still plenty of obstacle left.

Do we have any evidence that the loony tunes stuff is a tangible power? To me it just looks like Oda changes his art style a bit to reflect Luffy's amplified care free personality, but as far as powers, Luffy is still just a rubber man who can now also turn his environment into rubber (and seemingly got a big strength/speed boost in Gear 5). Luffy can do some crazy stuff w/ the environment after turning it into rubber, but he isn't like The Mask where his powers are only limited by his imagination.

Luffy could be at peak power too, Oda definitely likes to buck the typical battle manga trend of new powerups for his characters all the time (hell Luffy was the same strength from beginning of series to Enes Lobby), that wouldn't surprise me. I am predicting Luffy and Kizaru will have a decent fight but Luffy should still be above Admiral level, however Saturn is the wild card, who knows how strong the Five Elders are. The Elbaf arc should be epic if Shanks is still there too

WingsOfGood posted...

just goes to show people trying to take one thing that happens in the manga and say this means Goku wins are standing on shaky logic.

Later in the series Lava was a threat.
But keep in mind Akainu isn't just lava but Haki and whatever else. He could punch a whole in these guys easy as pie.

Dude, I love One Piece, but those characters are continental threats at best. Goku was multiplanetary after the Frieza saga. They just dont compare.

AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

Do we have any evidence that the loony tunes stuff is a tangible power?

Yes at the end of the last episode he flies up into the sky and grabs lighting and it becomes a weapon. Sure you could say he turned it into rubber but that means turning things into rubber basically lets him do whatever he wants.
Ex: turn time into rubber blah blah blah

Maybe that is how he came back to life? He turned his life into rubber and bounced back

ahahahhahahahahaha

PraetorXyn posted...

Dude, I love One Piece, but those characters are continental threats at best. Goku was multiplanetary after the Frieza saga. They just dont compare.

This is the problem with trying to scale Dragon Ball characters. People go: "oh this guy can maybe blow up X, so he is an X threat!" then ignore everything else

Magetta threatened Vegeta with lava. Dude was literally sweating. There is nothing else to say about it. Akainu would do worse.

But can he beat Popeye?

Hakai.

Done.

SkittyOnWailord posted...

But can he beat Popeye?

Not the topic of this thread.

Flash solos

Boss Rabbit would stomp Luffy.

just in case people forgot:

After drinking a cup of lava, he goes in for a series of punches once the match starts, but Vegeta dodges them all without much effort and he tries kicking him on the head, but the result leaves his head buried within his body and creates an irritating shock wave. Magetta pulls it back out after violently striking himself and he is completely fine. Even after increasing his power, Magetta still couldn't land a punch on Vegeta due to his speed. Magetta then goes in for a tornado attack, when Vegeta dodges upward at the last minute. He is now in the best position against Magetta because he can't do any mid-air combat. Vegeta then fires multiple ki blasts at Magetta, who endures it and counters them with his Lava Spit, which is considered a qualification which gets stronger by the minute. Vegeta manages to avoid the full damage at the last second but is now at the risk of touching the barrier and getting disqualified. Fortunately for Vegeta, he transforms into his Super Saiyan form to brush off the damage from the magma attack, but Magetta starts to power up even further and increase the temperature of the barrier-encased arena, causing Vegeta to pant and sweat.

Magetta continues spitting lava again at Vegeta. He then lets out a hot water vapor attack which pushed Vegeta to almost fly out of the barrier. While Vegeta prepares for a Galick Gun attack, Magetta raises the temperature which causes the whole arena to become extremely hot. Magetta easily blocks Vegeta's Galick Gun with his Lava Spit which becomes solidified. He spits another lava on Vegeta and uses the lava to ambush Vegeta. He successfully hits Vegeta with a club created by the cooling the magma, making him fall out of the ring. However, Vegeta is lucky enough to land on one of the broken rocks from the stage platform. Magetta gets pushed back by Vegeta's ki after releasing it to break the barrier. Vegeta uses his Final Flash on Magetta, while Magetta prepares for another Lava Spit. However, Vegeta's Final Flash easily overcomes Magetta's lava and pushes him to the edge of the arena platform. As a result of Vegeta's Final Flash, Magetta becomes dizzy and is left open to Vegeta's attack. Despite trying to block it, Vegeta shouts out an insult which makes Magetta lose his will to fight, thus, Magetta falls out of bounds and Vegeta is declared the winner of the match. He is later seen crying because of Vegeta's insult while Botamo tries to comfort him. In the manga, Magetta is instead defeated when Vegeta destroys most of the ring and then fires a ki blast at Magetta to try and knock him out - insulting him while doing so - causing Magetta to easily fall out of the ring from one blast to the surprise of Vegeta.

But surely Magetta wasn't using normal lava right?
Or or maybe he spiked it with Ki or somethign right right?

Cue Goku having to wear a suit in Dragon Ball Super Episode 68 due to lava

I feel like people in this topic forgot how Arale was able to go toe to toe with Goku in Dragon Ball Super.

DarkBuster22904 posted...

Hakai.

Done.

Which Hakai though? DBSs Hakai via Beerus is just straight up hax

Yeah but Goku has jokes that passed King Kais standards

WingsOfGood posted...

just in case people forgot:

But surely Magetta wasn't using normal lava right?
Or or maybe he spiked it with Ki or somethign right right?

Cue Goku having to wear a suit in Dragon Ball Super Episode 68 due to lava

So your point is that DB power scaling and feats are inconsistent?

Like how kid goku moved a small mountain in DB, but struggled with ten tons per limb in the buu arc?

Or how goku dropped Boss Rabbit on the moon in DB, but can't survive the vacuum of space for even a few seconds in Z?

People and attacks moving at near light speed in DB, but taking months to travel snake way in Z?

Ultimate Gohan being God level in the Tournament of Power, but getting bitchslapped by beerus in BoG?

Goku and Beerus vaporizing planets on the other end of the universe with just the Shockwave if their punches at the start of Super but never again?

An even stronger goku than that getting taken out by a ray gun weaker than Raditz?

It's almost like DB feats are all over the fucking place, with no rhyme or reason, and they're literally just as strong as they need to be to make a scene work. Kinda like... cartoon logic.

Also, fat buu out-luffys gear 5 luffy, who ends his life as a literal gum gum man, if you get my meaning.

ToadallyAwesome posted...

Which Hakai though? DBSs Hakai via Beerus is just straight up hax

And goku can do it.

He does it in the manga.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/2/7/AAOdzqAAEy17.jpg https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/2/8/AAOdzqAAEy18.jpg https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/2/9/AAOdzqAAEy19.jpg

DarkBuster22904 posted...

It's almost like DB feats are all over the f***ing place, with no rhyme or reason, and they're literally just as strong as they need to be to make a scene work. Kinda like... cartoon logic.

glad someone admits it

but the difference is that while DB fails to provide a logical framework to measure their feats it is believed that is does and people try to argue with it logically as if that framework made sense

meanwhile

one piece actually does this really well in providing a logical framework to measure feats but outright declares none of it matters anyways cause Luffy's powers are just outright able to break it all in a cartoon way

so while you could argue Goku works by cartoon rules, that is only the failing of the writer and not narratively canon, he is supposed to be bound by some set of rules it is just those rules make no real sense when we scrutinize them

luffy on the other hand is deliberately declared as such and beyond the limits and bounds of the rules of his reality

further I would add this declaration of Luffy is not just canon statements by the characters and feats but visibly declared from a shift in the art style

WingsOfGood posted...

Yes at the end of the last episode he flies up into the sky and grabs lighting and it becomes a weapon. Sure you could say he turned it into rubber but that means turning things into rubber basically lets him do whatever he wants.
Ex: turn time into rubber blah blah blah

Maybe that is how he came back to life? He turned his life into rubber and bounced back

ahahahhahahahahaha

Meh not really, Luffy has always been able to interact with lightning because he is rubber, that's how he was able to punch Enel the lightning man without haki. Grabbing the lightning is more just an evolution of his rubber powers.

WingsOfGood posted...

glad someone admits it

but the difference is that while DB fails to provide a logical framework to measure their feats it is believed that is does and people try to argue with it logically as if that framework made sense

meanwhile

one piece actually does this really well in providing a logical framework to measure feats but outright declares none of it matters anyways cause Luffy's powers are just outright able to break it all in a cartoon way

so while you could argue Goku works by cartoon rules, that is only the failing of the writer and not narratively canon, he is supposed to be bound by some set of rules it is just those rules make no real sense when we scrutinize them

luffy on the other hand is deliberately declared as such and beyond the limits and bounds of the rules of his reality

further I would add this declaration of Luffy is not just canon statements by the characters and feats but visibly declared from a shift in the art style

So one piece is better written than dragonball. Neat.

So is Crime and Punishment, but that doesn't mean Raskolnikov is beating Goku in a fight. If you're gonna cherry pick the worst moments of downscaling, you don't get to whine when others cherrypick the biggest moments of upscaling.

DarkBuster22904 posted...

you don't get to whine when others cherrypick the biggest moments of upscaling.

actually I do

If someone claims Goku can survive lava I can legit canonically say that is false and they cannot deny it without erasing from their mind actual events from the series

I'm wondering if he's finally ready to appear on death battle yet. Itd be awesome but His most likely opponent would be probably be plastic men and....lol.

Prismsblade posted...

I'm wondering if he's finally ready to appear on death battle yet. Itd be awesome but His most likely opponent would be probably be plastic men and....lol.

Luffy vs. Mickey Mouse

AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

Do we have any evidence that the loony tunes stuff is a tangible power? To me it just looks like Oda changes his art style a bit to reflect Luffy's amplified care free personality, but as far as powers, Luffy is still just a rubber man who can now also turn his environment into rubber (and seemingly got a big strength/speed boost in Gear 5). Luffy can do some crazy stuff w/ the environment after turning it into rubber, but he isn't like The Mask where his powers are only limited by his imagination.

He's not a rubber man though, he's a Sun God Nika man. And the fruit power is literally described as being limited to the user's imagination.

WingsOfGood posted...

actually I do

If someone claims Goku can survive lava I can legit canonically say that is false and they cannot deny it without erasing from their mind actual events from the series

You mean like the canon event where goku survives getting knocked into lava on Namek? Or the canon event where goku fights in lava against Broly?

Because you have no problem erasing THOSE moments from YOUR mind.

DarkBuster22904 posted...

You mean like the canon event where goku survives getting knocked into lava on Namek?

Doesn't matter I have proven he can be hurt by it. Canonically he is hurt by lava.

I am sure it upsetting but we have no one to blame but Toriyama himself for this. And that was my point.

WingsOfGood posted...

Doesn't matter I have proven he can be hurt by it. Canonically he is hurt by lava.

I am sure it upsetting but we have no one to blame but Toriyama himself for this. And that was my point.

And luffy is regularly beaten to within an inch of his life by Nami.

So... Nami beats goku in a fight?

Goku powered through toon shit when he beat up Buu as candy. The 'Death Battle' community bestows too much privilege on "toon force", bugs bunny gets his shit pushed in by the mundane just as often as he wrecks the world

DarkBuster22904 posted...

And luffy is regularly beaten to within an inch of his life by Nami.

So... Nami beats goku in a fight?

Oh you bring up a gag part? Well same happens to Goku.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/3/5/AAefUOAAEy2D.png

link: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9a/f7/2c/9af72c9bbf1004936619ae0fe132a362.gif

Bulma BITCH slaps the ever living life out of Goku

The lava thing is not a side gag. It is from an actual serious fight that is suppose to be a good moment where a worthy opponent is beaten.

WingsOfGood posted...

The lava thing is not a side gag. It is from an actual serious fight that is suppose to be a good moment where a worthy opponent is beaten.

Like the Frieza fight was?

As opposed to the totally-not-a-gag Magetta fight where he loses because vegeta trash talks him?

DarkBuster22904 posted...

Like the Frieza fight was?

yes there is a paradox. again read my post.
technically we are both right and we are both wrong

Toriyama wrote it some in one fight lava appears to not hurt them and in another it threatens their lives.
What this means is trying to bind this all in logical that can be easily explained and compared just can't work. But every DB fan does and every argument trying to make Goku seem like he wins uses that.

WingsOfGood posted...

yes there is a paradox. again read my post.
technically we are both right and we are both wrong

Toriyama wrote it some in one fight lava appears to not hurt them and in another it threatens their lives.
What this means is trying to bind this all in logical that can be easily explained and compared just can't work. But every DB fan does and every argument trying to make Goku seem like he wins uses that.

We've already agreed that it's inconsistent.

You're the one making the asinine claim that that definitively means Luffy wins by default.