Current Events > What's the point of the weapon triangle in Fire Emblem?

(+) Yeah! (+)

What�s the point in lying to me about %? What�s the point of sitting on wood or fortress spots? If the CPU has Ax user and i out my Thief on a Fortress with a sword, I should get hit 3 fucking times and miss each counter attack.

On the flip side, my 2% crit chances happen a lot, but always on the second f�n hit. Do it first time so I can save weapon durability

*headpats*

BurmesePenguin posted...

*headpats*

Crit! *Restarts*

Did you at least pick a god and prayed?

BurmesePenguin posted...

Did you at least pick a god and prayed?

LololSety is my God, but hes not in this game

I haven't played a single FE other than Shadow Dragon because mission 7 and 8 were terrible.

Weapon triangle was kinda fun to bring multiple units to cover each others weaknesses, until you leveled a general that could facetank God.

The magic weapon triangle they introduced later sucked ass.

seriously, amazing skill and knowledge of the game cant do shit with bad luck.

And I swear, Rebecca is the worst fucking Archer of all time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq2P6LJdN6o

Complain all you want about fire emblem rng but nothing will ever beat that time in XCOM 2 I had a 100% chance to hit but I still missed

Bad_Mojo posted...

LololSety is my God, but hes not in this game

Well, there's your problem. You need to be praying to Anna in this game.

tri-sapphire posted...

Well, there's your problem. You need to be praying to Anna in this game.

I cant ever remember who is in which GBA game, but Pent is my God in the game hes in.

20% =/= 0%

Shit luck can happen and that's why you should never go all in on dodge tanking.

But ultimately most of people's complaints about the RNG are confirmation bias. You remember the handful of times in a run where you miss a 90% or get hit by a 15% or an enemy's 2% crit kills you. You don't remember the hundreds and hundreds of times where your 90% hit landed, the enemy missed a 15% and the crits didn't go off. So it just feels like it happens more.

Bad_Mojo posted...

And I swear, Rebecca is the worst fucking Archer of all time.

I mean she definitely has a case for it. GBA archers a fucking awful and she might be the worst of them. Wolt at least has 3x effectiveness and Neimi can ride a horse on promotion. Rebecca can't even one round Peg Knights at base and that's like the one thing an early Archer needs to do.

I ended up with an unusually cracked Rebecca during my first NSO FE7 playthrough (she actually hit her strength cap somehow) but most of the time I've tried to use her she's been terrible. Fire Emblem RNG can be very fickle, both with the gameplay and your characters' level-ups.

Weird melty

Calwings posted...

I ended up with an unusually cracked Rebecca during my first NSO FE7 playthrough (she actually hit her strength cap somehow) but most of the time I've tried to use her she's been terrible. Fire Emblem RNG can be very fickle, both with the gameplay and your characters' level-ups.

Rebecca's big issue is there just isn't a particularly good reason to use her even if you give her the favoritism needed to keep up with the army. Chip isn't super valuable in FE7. 2x effectiveness means she doesn't really do the job of anti-flier very well, and reasonably accurate javelins and hand-axes means that her accurate 2-range doesn't hold a lot of value. So even an above average Rebecca just ends up being a unit that kills one enemy per turn. Meanwhile you've sent two paladins with javelins and hand-axes off to wipe out entire squads of enemies per turn.

Her absolute best case scenario is an extremely limited player phase unit. If you really want bows, Rath is just better from a growth unit perspective and while Louis isn't great you get her for free and with no investment and she'll do the same thing Rebecca would have done while also supporting a great unit like Pent. If you are the kinda crazy person who raises Eliwood and Lyn then Geitz is straight up the best bow user in the game (though he's still going to mostly use axes).

Turbam posted...

Weird melty

Not a melty at all. Just 100% facts

Ans yeah, its 100% confirmation bias. I dodge high % hits and land really low attacks a lot as well. Thus my point - the game lies to you

Bad_Mojo posted...

Not a melty at all. Just 100% facts

Ans yeah, its 100% confirmation bias. I dodge high % hits and land really low attacks a lot as well. Thus my point - the game lies to you

In a sense, the game does lie to you. There's a "true hit" percentage that's slightly different than the displayed percentage in every game after the 5th one.

https://fireemblemwiki.org/wiki/True_hit
FE7 uses 2RN.

However, with this system lower percentages are actually even lower and higher percentages are even higher so if the numbers didn't lie to you and were accurate you'd be missing even more high percentage hits and getting hit at low percentage hits even more.

Also I dont think TC understands how percentages work.

Bad_Mojo posted...

Not a melty at all. Just 100% facts

Ans yeah, its 100% confirmation bias. I dodge high % hits and land really low attacks a lot as well. Thus my point - the game lies to you

If I had a huge melty about my ice cream melting it would still be facts too.

Bad_Mojo posted...

Not a melty at all. Just 100% facts

Ans yeah, its 100% confirmation bias. I dodge high % hits and land really low attacks a lot as well. Thus my point - the game lies to you

It does not lie, a low percentage chance is still a chance and 15 are odds that you would love to have in a casino.

I have played enough HS games where chances of X happening and winning someone the game are front and center and I get as pissed as anybody else when the enemy makes me discard my 1/5 card that would have won the game during the next turn but that is what percentage chance means, it is never guranted until you get a 100% anything short of that just play to your odds and hope it works out.

This is coming from someone who beat Lucina's game on lunatic diofficulty so I was VERY aware that enemies can and will crit you on 1 or 2 percent and you will have to start over the entire chapter over.

The point is that it gives units more strengths and weaknesses that you have to plan around. If you hate it, then you'll love Three Houses, since it removed the weapon triangle

Kloe_Rinz posted...

Complain all you want about fire emblem rng but nothing will ever beat that time in XCOM 2 I had a 100% chance to hit but I still missed

XCOM 2 was rage inducing man lol.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/5/3/AAQgjdAAEs9x.jpg

orcus_snake posted...

It does not lie, a low percentage chance is still a chance and 15 are odds that you would love to have in a casino.

I have played enough HS games where chances of X happening and winning someone the game are front and center and I get as pissed as anybody else when the enemy makes me discard my 1/5 card that would have won the game during the next turn but that is what percentage chance means, it is never guranted until you get a 100% anything short of that just play to your odds and hope it works out.

This is coming from someone who beat Lucina's game on lunatic diofficulty so I was VERY aware that enemies can and will crit you on 1 or 2 percent and you will have to start over the entire chapter over.

The game actually does lie to the player but in the player's favor as enemies are more likely to have lower percentages and players are more likely to have higher percentages. A 5% crit/1RN happens 1 every 20 hits which with the amount of hits that goes on in every battle isn't a lot of hits at all. However, in True Hit/2RN a 5% chance is actually 0.55% chance which goes from 1 out of 20 to 1 out 180 so you can see how big a difference that makes.
Besides FE1-5, in Fates, Echoes, and Engage all numbers below 50% are 1RN/doesn't lie to you so lower percentage hits are much more likely to hit.

The point is that it gives units more strengths and weaknesses that you have to plan around. If you hate it, then you'll love Three Houses, since it removed the weapon triangle

my point with that is that there isnt enough advantage. Sword beats Ax, Forts give you what, +20? And I get hit three times and miss three times.

Then in the flip side, my Sword users can solo 8 Cavaliers with Lances easily. The CPU has zero advantage despite having the better weapon in the match up

https://youtu.be/62Qe7Ska5Fg

Really wish Stats was a required class in highschool.

LightHawKnight posted...

Really wish Stats was a required class in highschool.

And I hope you understand what Im saying. Here, early in the game my unit with an Iron Sword has a higher hit chance than the mob with an Iron Lance. The weapon triangle should be better

the rest of the shit is just bitching about a video game. Im sure youve never been like, that was fn unfair!! while playing a game, right.

Bad_Mojo posted...

And I hope you understand what Im saying. Here, early in the game my unit with an Iron Sword has a higher hit chance than the mob with an Iron Lance. The weapon triangle should be better

the rest of the shit is just bitching about a video game. Im sure youve never been like, that was fn unfair!! while playing a game, right.

You do realize that swords have high hit rates and enemies have worse accuracy right?

PBusted posted...

The game actually does lie to the player but in the player's favor as enemies are more likely to have lower percentages and players are more likely to have higher percentages. A 5% crit/1RN happens 1 every 20 hits which with the amount of hits that goes on in every battle isn't a lot of hits at all. However, in True Hit/2RN a 5% chance is actually 0.55% chance which goes from 1 out of 20 to 1 out 180 so you can see how big a difference that makes.
Besides FE1-5, in Fates, Echoes, and Engage all numbers below 50% are 1RN/doesn't lie to you so lower percentage hits are much more likely to hit.

Wait, how does it go out to one out of 180? that's 0.005 chance to hit which is completely different from 0.05 chance to hit.

orcus_snake posted...

Wait, how does it go out to one out of 180? that's 0.005 chance to hit which is completely different from 0.05 chance to hit.

1% is .01 chance to hit. 0.5% is .005 chance to hit. .05 is 5%.

Bad_Mojo posted...

And I hope you understand what Im saying. Here, early in the game my unit with an Iron Sword has a higher hit chance than the mob with an Iron Lance. The weapon triangle should be better

Swords are lightweight and have high hit. The trade off is that they are notably weaker than other weapons. While they might not need the hit/avoid bonuses the weapon triangle provides, they really appreciate the damage increase/reduction the triangle provides.

Axes have high might. But have notably lower hit and are heavier. The might damage increase the triangle grants isn't as needed but they really appreciate the hit buffs.

Lances are balanced between the two. It makes them the most triangle neutral of the weapons since the bonuses it grants aren't necessarily patching up weak spots.

The triangle is meant to grant an advantage and reward strategic play, it's not meant to be a full hard counter. Your sword user probably had considerably more speed and luck than the enemy had skill. Because as a whole, enemies are notably weaker than player units in FE7-9.