Current Events > Question about Dr. Strange Multiverse of Madness and Wandavision (Spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

I know I'm very late, finally watched them over the weekend starting with Dr. Strange MoM - really should have watched Wandavision first.

It felt like a lot of Wanda's character growth from the show was .. undone? or redone in MoM?

Processing grief is never linear, so I can understand her getting frustrated/single minded about "her sons" but it felt her dialogue about grief/love to Vision would have kept her from literally killing hundreds of monks and almost killing a child...

I haven't read the comics though - is the Scarlet Witch a more sadistic/unemphatic character? Does it have agency to influence Wanda like Venom?

The Scarlet Witch is just a codename, not a separate entity like Venom.

And yes, they did kind of undo some of the character growth from WandaVision but that was due to the corrupting influence of the Darkhold.

Wandavision and MoM writers did not align on plot advancements or character development, which is why it feels misaligned.

This was confirmed by Elizabeth Olsen.

It really did felt like going backwards in character growth, but the excuse for her acting the way she did was the Darkhold fucking with her. It's just weird that it makes her obsessed with finding her "kids" but not once did she ever mention anything about Vision. It's an idea, but executed horribly in the movie imo. Movie had a lot of promise, but it was overall a messy movie and most of that blame is in the script.

Yeah, her behavior was due to the Darkhold corrupting her. She lost Vision. Then she created a family with her mind and her powers, and fell in love with her unit of Vision and the two kids. She knew Vision was dead but believed her kids to still be out there so she obsessed over finding them with the Darkhold. That corrupted her.

AlCalavicci posted...

Yeah, her behavior was due to the Darkhold corrupting her. She lost Vision. Then she created a family with her mind and her powers, and fell in love with her unit of Vision and the two kids. She knew Vision was dead but believed her kids to still be out there so she obsessed over finding them with the Darkhold. That corrupted her.

She didn't search for vision in this movie? Odd

She got more and more corrupted by the Darkhold as time went on.

Man, MoM was such a wasted opportunity

Euripides posted...

Man, MoM was such a wasted opportunity

Dr strange:"wanda"

Wanda:"what"

Strange:"Let's get married"

Wong:"They happy now?"

Chavez inside Wanda"We're happy now"

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Dr strange:"wanda"

Wanda:"what"

Strange:"Let's get married"

Wong:"They happy now?"

Chavez inside Wanda"We're happy now"

OMG, the multiverse!

*movie literally shows 2.5 universes*

Me: dafuq?

After Agents of Shield spent an entire season on the darkhold, it definitely felt like a disappointment nothing burger here where it was just "oh there was this book in agatha's basement and it just done turned wanda evil" and that's not getting into the rest of the movie's plot and writing criticisms. Then you add the technical stuff like the really weird camera angles and shots that are jarring, with reports of the many reshoots the movie went through, and it ultimately left me surprisingly dissatisfied by the end of the movie.

I think y'all underestimate how horrifying she was in Wandavision and how little she grew. Her growth over the course of that show was "Mind-raping little children was too extreme of a path to get my idealized family."

"Please. Please help me. What day is it? How long has it been?.. You have to stop her. Shes in my head. None of it is my own. It hurts. It hurts so much. Make her stop. Just make her stop!"

"I have a daughter. Shes eight. Maybe she could be friends with your boys. If you like that storyline. Or, uh, the school bully, even. Really, anything. If you could just let her out of her room. If I could just hold her, please."

Can you imagine an 8-year old going through that every moment of everyday for a week? Must have been toddlers going through that too. Her killing an army of good guys in battle and almost killing 1 innocent teenager feels less evil.

Oh I definitely didn't like Wandavision either, I remember watching the finale and was like "that's it? She gets no comeuppance for what she's done? And the nonsense with Agatha is the writers' way of distracting us from the fact that Wanda caused this whole mess in the first place?"

I think what's annoying is that it seems like no Avenger really went to her cabin in the woods to reprimand her and/or check up on her, either one is fine. They were just like "oh Wanda caused a disturbance in that one town? Oh no anyway. Back to reading the paper"

saspa posted...

Oh I definitely didn't like Wandavision either, I remember watching the finale and was like "that's it? She gets no comeuppance for what she's done? And the nonsense with Agatha is the writers' way of distracting us from the fact that Wanda caused this whole mess in the first place?"

I think what's annoying is that it seems like no Avenger really went to her cabin in the woods to reprimand her and/or check up on her, either one is fine. They were just like "oh Wanda caused a disturbance in that one town? Oh no anyway. Back to reading the paper"

Agreed. Monica saying, "They'll never know what you sacrificed for them," pissed me off so much. The darkhold didn't make Wanda evil. Wanda's reactions imply she didn't consciously know she was mindraping the entire town. But when she finds out, she flies off and immediately starts looking for a different way to achieve the same goal. There's no indication she cares about making amends or facing justice. As long as that second path is less evil than mind-raping little kids, which I argue MoM is, then it's in line with her character growth.

The main difference is perspective bias. WandaVision is told from Wanda's perspective and MoM is told from her victim's perspective.

The guy who did Loki did MoM, instead of just getting the woman who did Wandavision. So it feels like they kind of go backwards. Even then, it's pretty clear she's still insane by the end of Wandavision, so MoM is just an escalation of that.

Honestly though, Wanda was the least of MoM's problem. How do you call something the Multiverse of Madness and show 2 fucking universes?

HornyLevel posted...

The guy who did Loki did MoM, instead of just getting the woman who did Wandavision. So it feels like they kind of go backwards. Even then, it's pretty clear she's still insane by the end of Wandavision, so MoM is just an escalation of that.

Honestly though, Wanda was the least of MoM's problem. How do you call something the Multiverse of Madness and show 2 fucking universes?

I'd rather have 2 fully realised multiverse than infinite numbers of them being there just because. Also I think there's actually 4 universe total that they visited. The first one was the 883 universe with the illuminati, the second one in the original 616 universe, the third one was evil strange that cause 2 multiverse collide which meant that were visiting 2 universe together. Universe hopping stories will not be as good if they don't anchor themselves to respective omniverse.

The real reason is because the director/writers of Dr Strang MotM didn't watch Wandavision

https://www.ign.com/articles/doctor-strange-2-writers-werent-able-to-watch-wandavision-before-finishing-sequel

Disney being greedy as fuck and trying to pump out as many movies as possible instead of giving time to let the writers actually watch the show that a main character of the movie that they're writing for starred in lol

Poorly posted...

I'd rather have 2 fully realised multiverse than infinite numbers of them being there just because. Also I think there's actually 4 universe total that they visited. The first one was the 883 universe with the illuminati, the second one in the original 616 universe, the third one was evil strange that cause 2 multiverse collide which meant that were visiting 2 universe together. Universe hopping stories will not be as good if they don't anchor themselves to respective omniverse.

It didn't have to be infinite. Come on, Everything Everywhere All At Once was more MoM than MoM.

All we really got was 838. The incursion one was completely destroyed and all you see is the Sanctum, and they spend like 10 minutes there. The Between-Space was not a universe.

Heck, Across the Spider-Verse is more MoM than MoM.

Like others said, she was corrupted by the Darkhold. One of the things I really like about the MCU is their trust in the audience to fill in gaps. We see her motivation in Wandavision and the beginning of her corruption, then we skip to Dr Strange to see her completely out of control. We don't really need to see the scenes in between to get from point A to point B. I've noticed similar things between other movies.

specialkid8 posted...

Like others said, she was corrupted by the Darkhold. One of the things I really like about the MCU is their trust in the audience to fill in gaps. We see her motivation in Wandavision and the beginning of her corruption, then we skip to Dr Strange to see her completely out of control. We don't really need to see the scenes in between to get from point A to point B. I've noticed similar things between other movies.

Is the movie good? I want to watched it but most people said it was bad.

Poorly posted...

Is the movie good? I want to watched it but most people said it was bad.

MoM is...decent, in it's own right. Parts of it were really good. But given the hype that went into the movie - Sam Raimi directing, the MCU finally getting a dark horror movie, major multiverse shenanigans with Prof. X being teased in the trailers - it left a lot to be desired.

tbh it pretty much killed the 'multiverse' hype that the D+ shows had been cultivating up until that point.

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Is the movie good? I want to watched it but most people said it was bad.

The vast majority of complaints were pedantic nerd shit. It was a really fun movie.

I thought Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness was pretty good. It's definitely not on the level of Guardians of the Galaxy volume 3, but I enjoyed it.

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Is the movie good? I want to watched it but most people said it was bad.

Keep your hype in check for it and you might not get disappointed with it. Don't expect much from the cameos or them even trying to use the Multiverse in a different or unique way like how EEAOO, Spiderverse, or even Spiderman No Way Home. It's one of those "turn off your brain and just enjoy the ride" type of movie, because there's a lot of stupid in it. The Sami Raimism's (horror elements) are great though and probably the only thing I really liked about the movie, even though some of the horror elements leads to stupid things happening.

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Is the movie good? I want to watched it but most people said it was bad.

Wait, so you didn't even watch it?

It's a pretty fun movie. As I said, the lack of universes is the only problem. The whole conflict with Wanda was pretty fun to see unfold. Despite what I said earlier, I put it in one of my higher MCU rankings.

In the comics her mind breaks and she erases most of mutantkind. This is a big storyline for several years with most mutants hating her until as comics do they reversr all the damage.

Thanks for the feedback, some of the movie and out of movie things makes sense.

I really don't want to watch the Marvel series but now I'm wondering if I need to see The Falcon & Winter Soldier, Loki, What If, and MoonKnight before watching the other Phase 4 movies? I've already seen Eternals, Shang Chi, and BP2, so I guess Black Widow, Thor Love and Thunder, and Quantumania..

Loki ties into the events of Dr. Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, Spider-Man: No Way Home, and Ant-Man 3. Loki is also loosely related to Moon Knight so far. There's a possible relation to Shang Chi as well, but it hasn't been confirmed yet.

Ruvan22 posted...

Thanks for the feedback, some of the movie and out of movie things makes sense.

I really don't want to watch the Marvel series but now I'm wondering if I need to see The Falcon & Winter Soldier, Loki, What If, and MoonKnight before watching the other Phase 4 movies? I've already seen Eternals, Shang Chi, and BP2, so I guess Black Widow, Thor Love and Thunder, and Quantumania..

Most of them haven't tied in... yet, so we don't know how mandatory viewing is. Most of them have introduced characters that are confirmed to show up soon, but we don't know how important they will actually be. Right now Loki seems like the biggest tie in and it's also one of the best.

bfslick50 posted...

Agreed. Monica saying, "They'll never know what you sacrificed for them," pissed me off so much. The darkhold didn't make Wanda evil. Wanda's reactions imply she didn't consciously know she was mindraping the entire town. But when she finds out, she flies off and immediately starts looking for a different way to achieve the same goal. There's no indication she cares about making amends or facing justice. As long as that second path is less evil than mind-raping little kids, which I argue MoM is, then it's in line with her character growth.

The main difference is perspective bias. WandaVision is told from Wanda's perspective and MoM is told from her victim's perspective.

I rewatched the scene and it was so much dumber then I remembered. I don't remember Wanda flying away in her silly new wardrobe nor do I remember that line and it was so horrible. It's like rewarding hostage takers and telling them how amazing they are after capturing them except they didnt take Wanda in. And we're supposed to feel triumphant that they put that head agent guy in handcuffs? Really?

I just realized how this trend is starting to be common with all the disney mcu shows, Hawkeye's ending gave me a very similar feeling...

That sacrifice line is so absolutely garbage and it did not need to be. It's so easy to make it work. Have Monica tell Wanda to turn herself in and take whatever punishment she's owed. Wanda obviously tells her no and flies off to be the bad guy in MoM.

You'd still have some stupid shit like the director being arrested for uh....something, but it makes Monica not look like a gibbering buffoon and gives Wanda a more direct villain arc. But they wanted to close out the series on her being a good(?) guy for some reason even though it was very obvious she was finna lose her goddamn mind.

pegusus123456 posted...

That sacrifice line is so absolutely garbage and it did not need to be. It's so easy to make it work. Have Monica tell Wanda to turn herself in and take whatever punishment she's owed. Wanda obviously tells her no and flies off to be the bad guy in MoM.

You'd still have some stupid shit like the director being arrested for uh....something, but it makes Monica not look like a gibbering buffoon and gives Wanda a more direct villain arc. But they wanted to close out the series on her being a good(?) guy for some reason even though it was very obvious she was finna lose her goddamn mind.

That would have been so much better, I'm even more upset now they didn't just do that. Maybe I'll think of it as headcanon

Wanda is just a bad person. She always been a bad person. And because she look like Elizabeth Olsen people make excuses for her. Like they do that women who liked about the blood treatment. I saw if you are a pretty you can literally get away with murder. I was going say if you are a pretty lady. But at least in movies , pretty guys get the same treatment like the women who make excuses for Kylo Rin. Or people who like both Edward or Jacob or Belle.

cjsdowg posted...

Wanda is just a bad person. She always been a bad person. And because she look like Elizabeth Olsen people make excuses for her. Like they do that women who liked about the blood treatment. I saw if you are a pretty you can literally get away with murder. I was going say if you are a pretty lady. But at least in movies , pretty guys get the same treatment like the women who make excuses for Kylo Rin. Or people who like both Edward or Jacob or Belle.

You know thinking bad, the character didn't get much positive build up before doing terrible things (of course by Avengers 2 there were a lot of characters so screen time was at a premium) which definitely makes it seem like she was just... very self centered all along.