Current Events > Have men stopped making da 1st move?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Which again is not a, as you claim "100%" stance one should have. He said much more than that. He did not just say the words you paraphrase.

He posted on the premises that there are no such thing as woman who don't communicate well.

My paraphrase was essentially all he was saying. Just more forceful and verbose

If this is the spin you are going to use, then the same could apply to any post that doesn't express over and over that woman are not all psychoes.

Yours and his logic can literally be applied to all the people you jump to claiming "creepy men wanting sex and think woman are psychoes."

Negotiating relationships and interpersonal encounters is tricky. Especially at the start. Anyone can unintentionally send the wrong signal.

What gets you through these awkward situations is a bit of respect and willingness to listen. Keeping things light-hearted and dialling down the intensity helps too. If you make a wrong move, apologize and back off.

If you're not actually creepy, oppressive, or inappropriate, then you will rarely be accused of being so. As in all walks of life you will meet some people who are unreasonable, but you just have to shake it off (to borrow a phrase) and move on.

I have no idea how you are making this into something that was not said at all.

Not all women are psychos, but some are. Same as men. Some women communicate well, some are horrible. Same as men. This is all obvious and nothing to do with the post.

Except it does have to do with the post.

That post did not say some woman are psychos and some aren't. (I just want to say for the record, that is not my word choice, nor is it the word I agree with for men or woman).

That post explicitly claimed that nothing can possibly happen if you ask out a woman. That its you whos pathetic for thinking differently. That its only a mans ego whos ever scared. That its the man who needs to always suck it up and better himself. Meaning it's not the woman that's ever the problem.

No where in that post does he express that it's some creepy men doing those creepy low self esteem, sex crazed things. No where in that post does he express that many of the "stories that woman see on the internet" of men all wanting sex on the first date, or being creepy or any other sphere painting men to be toxic creepy violent monsters isn't all true either. No where in that post does he claim that yes, a woman could have shocker, been the one with terrible communication skills.

That post put 100% blame on the man regardless.

The two of you clearly don't understand what I'm talking about. Your advice to me is, "well, don't be socially awkward." I can't help it. It never seems like a good time, I always feel like I'm bothering people when I talk to them. Women tell me how much they don't like it when men hit on them. So I don't. Women tell me that they think men only care about getting into their pants. That isn't the only thing I care about, so I don't push it. I am socially awkward, have been my entire life. There is no getting over it for me, I can't take advice to give it to myself in the past to develop those skills

I feel like the group of guys that are being ignored are the guys who are overly considerate.

I really doubt this poster is concerned that something bad will happen to him.

Hes concerned about negatively affecting the womans day.

If you think guys are only worried about their own egos when making advances, I think it just illustrates the disconnect between what folks think the issue is.

For a lot of guys that are genuinely nice and try to be considerate, they wont approach because they dont want to escalate anything negative. Be it the woman being creeped out or her feeling uncomfortable.

The obvious problem is that these guys also cant discern signals since women sometimes have to fake signals for security. Like, how many women will smile back at a guy just because its natural or to avoid mean mugging someone.

These guys typically also lack experience, so theres no previous data to refer to.

And all they get is go to bars. Which will 9 times outta 10, not help them at all.

Everyone else understood the bolded part to mean very unlikely that anything bad will happen vs 100% could never happen.

Which again this angle of, "Oh I just assumed even though he didn't say not all men are sex crazed toxic monsters, he meant only some if the approach to a woman flopped" can be applied to the people you are assuming thinks all woman are crazy, or only care about xyz when the conversation flops.

As the opposite side of the coin loves to claim any man who flops a conversation with a woman was just demanding sex on the first date or sex at all, creepy, crazy, egotistical, and needs to better himself.

You are just ranting. Feel better yet?

I agree with this too. Things are complex.

Also, I don't advise just going to bars for guys who need experience and maybe some social learnings. I always advise to try Meetup events. Itvis a great way to meet men and women that share similar interests, and potentially form friendships, and allows for relationships tonform as well. I have seen it work for plenty of introverted guys. I also met my fiance this way as well.

I have no idea how you are making this into something that was not said at all.

Not all women are psychos, but some are. Same as men. Some women communicate well, some are horrible. Same as men. This is all obvious and nothing to do with the post.

It's really not. Meet up's don't work, and in the men, most people don't really care. People mostly care about their close friends, and family or BF/GF.

Fucking pathetic men, too scared to get rejected so they have to create unrealistic scenarios in their little fragile minds where they view women as psycho bitches who's out to get them if they do happen to make eye contact with them.

Newsflash, nothing bad will happen to you if you make a move towards them besides hurting your goddamn ego if they reject your advances. Suck it up, better yourself next time and try again with someone else. The stories you see on the internet do not reflect the real world. With that simpleton logic you might as well stay home for the rest of your life since there's murders everywhere you go, the odds of you catching a bullet from a stray gunshots is higher than your life getting ruined just because you asked a woman out.

1. Men aren't scared to get rejected. Men get rejected all the time. Society rejects men all the time
2. There are literal documented cases of normal men being exposed at the "gym" for looking or talking to women. With that mans face being on the internet forever, and the woman's platform insulting the guy or making him out to be someone
3. The.Internet.100%.Reflects.The.Real.World.
4. Actually, this is wrong. A woman can file a restraining order. A woman can accuse a man of assault. A man can be embarrassed online.

I don't have an issue with him. I think we've debated in the past before? I don't have a personal problem with him.

I just disagree with his general double standards when it comes to men.

So I didn't meet my fiance though Meetup? I haven't seen over a dozen relationships form through the big Meetup group I helped run? And haven't witnessed two 30 something men lose their viginity within that group?

Interesting.

That depends what they're in the market for according to studies I've seen. They're just as shallow as men if they just want to bang

It's probably true for men too, if you want a housewife or something like that you probably are gonna look at other things besides looks

...because this was beyond the point I was making or what I felt the other guy was talking about.

And what makes you decide to talk to her to see if shes one you can talk about things with?

The thing is, men are pretty shallow. Physical attractiveness sparks attraction, and finding out she has shared interests is just icing on the cake etc.

Women are by and large attracted by things besides physical appearance, like the ability to banter and flirt, good social skills, being funny, mental strength, charm, wit, etc. And while I like to think Im funny Im godawful at the rest of that and have the social skills of a

By talking to her... Like any other person. If a person isn't a slob, then I'd be interested in them potentially. How "hot l" she is, is not the only reason.

People tend to talk to anyone that doesn't look unappealing male or female.

People aren't going to Meetup to organize relationships. Meetup doesn't work when you try to approach and date a woman who isn't interested in you.

You're essentially stuck if the meet up group you join doesn't have your ideal woman. At that point, you might as well online date. Because meeting people on meet up=/=wanting to date/get laid/

A girl's first move can include repeated eye contact and smiling. If you get that, buy her a drink i.e. ask a server to get her another of whatever she is drinking. Or, go say hi and ask if you can join her/her group

That is ridiculous

If a man is average looking or considered boring, he won't be considered in the first place.

Women have tons of men approaching them. And tons of options

Trying to actively be friends with the opposite gender in hopes of eventually getting a date is a bad idea compared to being on a site where the intentions are known

A lot of people say the "they have a ton of options."

Did I say that? You are making assumptions.

I form friendships because I like people, men and women, not because I want to fuck them. But I did end up sleeping with some women I was friends with, for better or worse. Usually because they made it clear they were interested.

You are flooding this thread with random comments that aren't helpful.

Meetup could be great for some guys here. You can't argue with the stats I gave, and most of those men were nerdy introverts.

If I joined you're meet up group, and I saw a woman there, misread the signals, asked her out got rejected: That woman could easily report me, and you'd kick me out(hypothetical)

And you think meet up is some viable way? Newsflash: People have different tiers of friends. Why do you think people boast about having "best friends". It means they prioritize certain people in their life more than others.

You can't waltz on in some meet up group and believe that you'll have an established friendship. As you get older, you realize some of the people you thought cared about you, don't care or will throw you away.

Because...they do. Men don't get approached constantly, or told they are good looking on a daily basis. Men need to have a bunch of things going for them to even be considered for a date

Sincerely became friends? As a guy, if you're interested in a woman you should make your intentions known. Not try the whole "lets be friends for 8 months before asking her out" nonsense. Doing that means that you run the risk of being too late or being friendzoned. Which means she's never going to look at you as anything more than a buddy or "brother"

A guy who wants to
A. Have Sex
B. Go on a date
C. Seek a long term relationship

Should not be aiming to be friends with a girl for 89999 years before asking them out.

And yeah, best friends. Which means they prioritize certain people over you. Which means that someone can prioritize another "friend" over me and hangout with them more or place more importance on them

I help no one. Because In life, you realize that people will lie, and manipulate you to suit their own goals and purposes.

You are hopeless. And wrong. And everyone here knows it.

I've had more success meeting women on online dating sites or even cold approaching certain women, compared to trying the whole "lets be friends stuff"

Atleast if you get rejected, you move on

With the latter, you're spending your own time on someone who may not even value you

I already said I had lots of success with online dating and have plenty of friends who have as well.

Lots of the guys here on CE who struggle with dating also lack friendships and social skills. This is known. The ability to make friends and gain social skills is very helpful for dating as well. I suggest Meetup as a way to make friends and gain social skills because cold approaching will likely not work for them. They don't have that skill set. And many of them have already tried online dating and failed (but once again, I have tips for those who want them). I have seen guys who couldn't online date, then gain social skills in my Meetup group, and then move on to successfully online date.

Your shitty attitude about friendships and people in general has made you completely miss the point. I am giving people advice on how to be social and make friends. With those skills, they can then be better at online dating, they can be better at cold approaching, and maybe they will end having a relationship with someone they have been friends with. But I never said be friends with women so one day you can fuck them (but it does happen).

I am talking about possibilities and things that could happen. You are simply shooting them down despite the fact that I have seen these things happen many times. Do you think I am lying about all my friends and how things worked out for them? Do you think I am not engaged to someone I met through Meetup and was my friend for 3 years first? And don't say I waited around 3 years for her. I didn't. I had lots of relationships and flings during that time.

So to reiterate Bsp - are you feeling any better after these rants? Let it out, it's healthy.

With the latter, you're spending your own time on someone who may not even value you

yes

Hold on to your nihilism. I am sure you are thriving because of that.