Current Events > Have men stopped making da 1st move?

(+) Yeah! (+)

This topic went exactly as expected.

bsp77 posted...

Put these two quotes in order and this is my point. Yes, lots of guys struggle because of their limited hobbies and limited social skills. But I have witnessed exceedingly awkward guys go from shut ins who only played videogames and watched anime to having broader hobbies, gaining social skills, making friends and eventually dating. I made no assumptions that I am aware of.

My concern is while we know the solution works, how many guys are putting this into practice percentage wise? How many guys are getting out of their comfort zone to try new things that require physical interactions? We're in the age of instant communication yet people are more lonely than ever in addition to the percentage of males dropping out of society rising. I feel as though giving this advice falls on deaf ears. You could say (not you but you as in a person in general) that if they don't want to listen it's not your problem, but we live in a society where our actions affect each. If 95% of males drop out of society and don't give a damn about the future, I think that spells trouble for everyone.

My point is the advice needs to be refactored to get guys to listen and act on it. Telling people the equivalent of pulling themselves up by their own bootstrap ain't gonna cut. You're competing with Fresh and Fit and Tate's platforms. If you want them to adopt your values over theirs, at the minimum you need to acknowledge their problems, give actionable advice, and give guidance.

A lot of folks on this board don't understand how popular the aforementioned guys are and why it's the case yet complain about them spreading toxic views without sincerely trying to understand the madness of their popularity.

willythemailboy posted...

This topic went exactly as expected.

XD

Sad_Face posted...

My concern is while we know the solution works, how many guys are putting this into practice percentage wise? How many guys are getting out of their comfort zone to try new things that require physical interactions? We're in the age of instant communication yet people are more lonely than ever in addition to the percentage of males dropping out of society rising. I feel as though giving this advice falls on deaf ears. You could say (not you but you as in a person in general) that if they don't want to listen it's not your problem, but we live in a society where our actions affect each. If 95% of males drop out of society and don't give a damn about the future, I think that spells trouble for everyone.

My point is the advice needs to be refactored to get guys to listen and act on it. Telling people the equivalent of pulling themselves up by their own bootstrap ain't gonna cut. You're competing with Fresh and Fit and Tate's platforms. If you want them to adopt your values over theirs, at the minimum you need to acknowledge their problems, give actionable advice, and give guidance.

A lot of folks on this board don't understand how popular the aforementioned guys are and why it's the case yet complain about them spreading toxic views without sincerely trying to understand the madness of their popularity.

All I am hearing is that many guys will simply ignore my advice. That's fine then. My advice isn't harming anyone. And it might reach someone, as it has a few people here and a few people in real life.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Part of being red pilled is accepting the fact that most people, outside of close family, won't care about you, will abandon, or will forget you

too many situations in society where people do so much or seek approval of those who dont care about em

Men are still making the first move.

Mostly confident, more attractive men are carrying on as they always have, while introverted and less attractive men are just giving up because of this "incel doomer" and "alpha/sigma" and hyper public scrutiny that social media has created. Everyone is a quantifiable product now, not just a person.

It has almost nothing to do with "Me too" or feminism. That's just more bullshit to cover for capitalism, toxic manosphere brainwashing, and big tech commodification of identity.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Fresh & Fit taught that men should be having multiple options and that men should be talking with multiple women, rather than focusing on one specific person(when it comes to dating) they've also outlined the big differences between sexes and why men and women tend to look for different things in an ideal relationship.

Fresh & Fit have helped give me purpose and strength.

They also teach misogynistic bullcrap too.

Such as?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Online dating isn't exactly the hardest thing in the world when it comes to meeting and talking with women/setting up dates.

Infact, it's arguably easier and better. Because you don't have to talk to someone randomly, and you don't have to build towards asking someone out who you see in an every day setting. If you get "rejected" online, you move onto the next person and don't run the risk of misreading so called "signals"

AverageDude9 posted...

Such as?

Oof.

AverageDude9 posted...

Online dating isn't exactly the hardest thing in the world when it comes to meeting and talking with women

Infact, it's arguably easier and better. Because you don't have to talk to someone randomly, and you don't have to build towards asking someone out in an every day setting.

*sniff sniff *
Smells like bitch in here

FolkenRawr posted...

*sniff sniff *
Smells like bitch in here

Whats wrong with online dating?

AverageDude9 posted...

Such as?

By seeing women as objects to be gamed and acquired, rather than regular people.

Not only is it misogynistic, its incredibly destructive. Treating people like a checklist to be happy is going to lead to both you and others getting hurt.

Well this topic blew up.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

I'd say both men and woman pigeon hole the opposite sex when it's comes to dating and bringing up "problems" the other sex has based off subgroups.

Meh. It isn't that hard hitting on a girl without sexually assaulting them.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

My mistake, carry on.

cardoor123 posted...

Fucking pathetic men, too scared to get rejected so they have to create unrealistic scenarios in their little fragile minds where they view women as psycho bitches who's out to get them if they do happen to make eye contact with them.

Newsflash, nothing bad will happen to you if you make a move towards them besides hurting your goddamn ego if they reject your advances. Suck it up, better yourself next time and try again with someone else. The stories you see on the internet do not reflect the real world. With that simpleton logic you might as well stay home for the rest of your life since there's murders everywhere you go, the odds of you catching a bullet from a stray gunshots is higher than your life getting ruined just because you asked a woman out.

I want to add to this post because people are getting their feelings hurt and they interpreted my post as "it's always men's fault". Women are also to blame as well, they CAN make the first move as well. There are too many dumbass women who hold on to some primitive idea on how it's men's responsibility to make the first move. Yes, it's a role typically reserved by men but why play these dumbass games if you like someone? Stop with the signals and get out there and be direct as possible since signals can be interpreted in anyway they want, being direct eliminates the bullshit. And stuff like that is why the dating scene is shit, people just don't want to work to get something they and want everything to fall into their laps. They're scared to commit to anything because of some bullshit fears or ideas that they have, logic reserved for toddlers.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/1/2/AACE4xAAEn2k.jpg

rexcrk posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/1/2/AACE4xAAEn2k.jpg

The funny part is anyone pushing this meme is admitting they have chosen to look like the dude in the bottom picture

Toonstrack posted...

The funny part is anyone pushing this meme is admitting they have chosen to look like the dude in the bottom picture

Not necessarily

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

So I was friends with my fiance for 3 years before we started dating. Just a few months after I met her, she was at a big group picnic, and I thought she looked super cute. I made a comment to my male friend about it and that I should tell her. He was like "no, you can't tell her she looks cute". I ignored him and told her anyway. It made her day and that was when she really noticed me for the first time and started to have a crush on me.

You have to be careful about who and where and when (like I wouldn't say that to a coworker) but compliments are good if not being creepy.

ai123 posted...

Automatic trust is naive and dumb. Never trusting anyone on principle is self-defeating cowardice. Learn to read social situations and develop some judgement.

Kinda disrespectful to victims of conmen/liars

Some people are very good liars, acting like it's the victim's fault for not picking up on the deception is pretty callous

bsp77 posted...

You have to be careful about who and where and when (like I wouldn't say that to a coworker) but compliments are good if not being creepy.

That all depends.

Like some woman find it flattering, some find it annoying, and there are legit some who are more receptive to compliments from someone they find attractive while less receptive to compliments to those they don't find attractive.

I'd say that's in general with people. People (men amd woman) getting hit on by anyone that they find not attractive (specifically unattractive), tend to be less receptive to compliments no matter how sweet or nice the person giving it was. Which can often be dubbed creepy, or any other derogatory word.

Like we shouldn't just assume it's someone being creepy when a person is rejected. Because "creepy" or whatever the derogatory language, is definitely thrown around loosely.

bsp77 posted...

All I am hearing is that many guys will simply ignore my advice. That's fine then. My advice isn't harming anyone. And it might reach someone, as it has a few people here and a few people in real life.

Fair enough.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Well, from the issues bsp and I discussed, we have a population of boys who aren't getting social interactivity in healthy amount and don't have a community to feel a part of beyond the internet world. I haven't put much thought into this but a quick solution would make everyone go back to church. Satisfies the community aspect and satisfies the necessity of having a community that shares a common set of values and morals.

If you want a non-secular solution, I suppose a redesign of the Boy Scouts for adults where the focus is on building some public works project in their community as well as meeting some fitness standard. Here, the intent is for the physical investment in the community gives you an emotional investment in your community and its inhabitants.

Spitballing here, I dunno.

Sillyface_Mcdum posted...

Kinda disrespectful to victims of conmen/liars

Some people are very good liars, acting like it's the victim's fault for not picking up on the deception is pretty callous

I was suggesting a middle way between the automatic giving and withholding of trust, which is to use experience and judgement. Not blaming the victims of liars.

You're overreaching for something that isn't there. Not sure why.

Sad_Face posted...

Well, from the issues bsp and I discussed, we have a population of boys who aren't getting social interactivity in healthy amount and don't have a community to feel a part of beyond the internet world. I haven't put much thought into this but a quick solution would make everyone go back to church. Satisfies the community aspect and satisfies the necessity of having a community that shares a common set of values and morals.

If you want a non-secular solution, I suppose a redesign of the Boy Scouts for adults where the focus is on building some public works project in their community as well as meeting some fitness standard. Here, the intent is for the physical investment in the community gives you an emotional investment in your community and its inhabitants.

Spitballing here, I dunno.

Alternatively: Leave them alone

Sad_Face posted...

put much thought into this but a quick solution would make everyone go back to church

You can get a sense of community without church.

We don't need more religion shoehorned into people. It's also not a lack of religion that both men and woman have trouble dating nowadays.

It's that kind of thinking along with many other things that's turning many away from religion in the first place.

Sad_Face posted...

To reiterate bsp's point in a more abstract manner, the objective is to find a community where you find people of similar interests, goals or values. Meetups are a quick method of accomplishing this. From there, in a community, you will interact with others, build up social skills, and eventually the opportunity to pair up with a girl will present itself.

In any case, you don't care for this and you say you're thriving anyway, so you don't need this advice. That being said, bsp is making decent points but he's making a bunch of poor assumptions. A lot of guys struggling have hobbies centered mostly in gaming, very male dominated, and in addition they have underdeveloped social skills. Yeah, you can tell them to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps and get better hobbies, but people are continually receiving less exposure to new experiences and guys are finding refuge in the gaming/discord world.

We have a societal problem at large and telling guys individually to "pull themselves up by their own bootstraps" and they're the problem just isn't efficient. This is why platforms like Tate and Fresh and Fit gain so much attention; they acknowledge the changes in societal trends and offer guidance on how to be competitive.

Yep pretty much, the cynical nature of their theses can be critiqued but they at least address certain things

IceCreamOnStero posted...

Fresh and Fit and people like them provide hollow advice because they miss the point. Stuff like getting fit are good for you because they are judt plain good for you in and of themselves, and being satisfied with yourself is crucial to your happiness. Instead, all the advice rounds back to the core issue, which is encouraging you to seek validation from others.

Its why "blue pill" advice isn't helpful either, it gives into that desire instead of addressing it

People need validation from others, so this isn't helpful, either. Humans are social.

Sillyface_Mcdum posted...

People need validation from others, so this isn't helpful, either. Humans are social.

Needing validation from others is a sign of a personal failing. The healthy way to deal with that is to improve yourself, not rely on someone else to do it.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

That's no one's only goal, we all know the benefits of fitness, etc. Telling people to stop wanting something is useless, if you were your own slave everyone would be happy already. Reminds me of the "sex isn't everything, bud." argument that always coincidentally happens to come from people who get laid a lot, for some reason