Current Events > Kotaku under fire on Twitter for their Star Wars Outlaws article

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SupermanLost
06/14/23 10:09:58 AM
#1:


https://twitter.com/SYACVG/status/1668751616240136193

https://twitter.com/Vara_Dark/status/1668837210253152260

https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/1668977856138088448
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KTG2
06/14/23 10:13:35 AM
#2:


This is a stupid fake controversy, but I really think a guy working at Blizzard in the era that Grummz did maybe ought to just take a seat whenever an issue involving the treatment of women comes up, idk

Just poor optics there homie

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SaikyoStyle
06/14/23 10:15:10 AM
#3:


Whoever wrote that probably doesnt believe it. They just know what generates engagement.

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Zorux
06/14/23 10:15:38 AM
#4:


https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/0/5/AAbekMAAEkQx.jpg

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BurmesePenguin
06/14/23 10:16:04 AM
#5:


I don't understand what people think they're proving when someone says "z does not have enough x" and they reply by listing a number of xes within z.

I guess that's what happens when matters of statistical analysis are discussed on twitter.

Not that Kotaku are correct about anything.

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CoyoteTheGreat
06/14/23 10:18:07 AM
#6:


So they wrote an article about backlash against women protaganists (Something you can find just five seconds of searching in any Steam forum), and then a bunch of gamergater incels immediately proved the article right.

This topic is going to bring all the The Quarterpounder fans out of the woodwork too I bet. Can you imagine looking at that very obese incel who works himself up into a right wing fury over the stupidest fucking fake controversies and thinking, "What an aspirational figure, this is a very intelligent man who I must consume all the youtube videos of".

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Poorly
06/14/23 10:35:58 AM
#7:


CoyoteTheGreat posted...
So they wrote an article about backlash against women protaganists (Something you can find just five seconds of searching in any Steam forum), and then a bunch of gamergater incels immediately proved the article right.

This topic is going to bring all the The Quarterpounder fans out of the woodwork too I bet. Can you imagine looking at that very obese incel who works himself up into a right wing fury over the stupidest fucking fake controversies and thinking, "What an aspirational figure, this is a very intelligent man who I must consume all the youtube videos of".
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/4/6/AAfRsCAAEgK6.jpg

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s0nicfan
06/14/23 10:39:18 AM
#8:


SaikyoStyle posted...
Whoever wrote that probably doesnt believe it. They just know what generates engagement.


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ai123
06/14/23 10:41:54 AM
#9:


When people stop having an aneurysm over women or minorities in videogames, then we will know they have reached sufficient numbers.

This only happens when it is so commonplace as to be not worth remarking on.

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deoxxys
06/14/23 10:56:18 AM
#10:


I mean seems like most protagonists these days are women.

Also I love how they are trying to spin the "woman of color" angle as well, as if the character doesnt look similar to dozens of girls you could see in every city in America. Shes very ambiguously brown.

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DipDipDiver
06/14/23 11:26:38 AM
#11:


CoyoteTheGreat posted...
So they wrote an article about backlash against women protaganists (Something you can find just five seconds of searching in any Steam forum), and then a bunch of gamergater incels immediately proved the article right.
This is what I gathered from it as well
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Murphiroth
06/14/23 11:30:17 AM
#12:


deoxxys posted...
I mean seems like most protagonists these days are women.

Citation needed.

CoyoteTheGreat posted...
So they wrote an article about backlash against women protaganists (Something you can find just five seconds of searching in any Steam forum), and then a bunch of gamergater incels immediately proved the article right.


Yep.

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AmericaTheBrave
06/14/23 11:34:23 AM
#13:


Respect women, but I do have to wonder how many women protagonists we need before people stop saying "we need more women protaginists." Women protagonists are not rare at all anymore. The good fight has been fought, you can lay down your weapons.

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TonyKojima
06/14/23 11:36:56 AM
#14:


Wait you think Kotaku is in the wrong? Are you serious????

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Funkydog
06/14/23 11:37:41 AM
#15:


Why do these chuds make me want to defend fucking Kotaku.

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NeonTentacles
06/14/23 11:37:51 AM
#16:


Remember when Kotaku accused Persona 5 of having a song with the r-word in the lyrics (when it clearly didn't)?

Remember when some reviewer on Kotaku would literally cover his eyes everytime someone in a swimsuit was on screen in Yakuza 0?
https://imgur.com/DDfDw4H

Remember when Kotaku told everyone to pirate Metroid Dread and got blacklisted by Nintendo?

tl;dr lolkotaku

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ai123
06/14/23 11:39:43 AM
#17:


AmericaTheBrave posted...
Respect women, but I do have to wonder how many women protagonists we need before people stop saying "we need more women protaginists." Women protagonists are not rare at all anymore. The good fight has been fought, you can lay down your weapons.
The fight is over when people stop being snowflakes about 'women and minorities in my videogames'.

It's not about the number of female protagonists, it's about the reaction to them.

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Poorly
06/14/23 11:40:00 AM
#18:


R-word?

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Ivynn
06/14/23 11:40:21 AM
#19:


Kotaku is big dumb

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dave_is_slick
06/14/23 11:41:22 AM
#20:


I know people aren't trying to pretend they're right.

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NeonTentacles
06/14/23 11:41:45 AM
#21:


Poorly posted...
R-word?

Fill in the blank: That wall is fire-______ant and won't burn.

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LordFarquad1312
06/14/23 11:43:32 AM
#22:


Kotaku articles are probably written by an AI by the dozens, who cares.
Just stop listening to them like most people and anyone who matters in the video game industry.

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Bigpapaplut
06/14/23 11:43:40 AM
#23:


Kotaku needs to fuck off forever already

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dave_is_slick
06/14/23 11:43:54 AM
#24:


ai123 posted...
The fight is over when people stop being snowflakes about 'women and minorities in my videogames'.

It's not about the number of female protagonists, it's about the reaction to them.
That's never gonna happen. The realistic fight is over since the overreactions are not normalized.

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Questionmarktarius
06/14/23 11:45:41 AM
#25:


Nobody pitched a fit over Shantae.
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rynobot
06/14/23 11:46:16 AM
#26:


More women the better

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Ivynn
06/14/23 11:47:10 AM
#27:


Questionmarktarius posted...
Nobody pitched a fit over Shantae.

They pitched something alright tho ayyyy

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Questionmarktarius
06/14/23 11:49:00 AM
#28:


ai123 posted...
When people stop having an aneurysm over women or minorities in videogames, then we will know they have reached sufficient numbers.
I don't recall anyone pitching a fit over Dandara, other whining about the bizarre control scheme.

...or Alien Isolation
...or Portal
...or Touhou
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NeonTentacles
06/14/23 11:51:56 AM
#29:


Ivynn posted...
They pitched something alright tho ayyyy
Hellz yeah!

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deoxxys
06/14/23 11:53:23 AM
#30:


Funkydog posted...
Why do these chuds make me want to defend fucking Kotaku.
*Funkydog needs to sort out their priorities
https://youtu.be/_oVnrq-6GnY

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Nok_Su_Kow
06/14/23 11:55:34 AM
#31:


Woman of color protagonist- fine.
Another plucky Disney ride protagonist - fuck that.
Like seriously, Boba Fett's Scooter Gang vibes from this main character.
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divot1338
06/14/23 11:57:38 AM
#32:


Outlaw, please? Im a smuggler.

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refmon
06/14/23 12:09:07 PM
#33:


Nok_Su_Kow posted...
Woman of color protagonist- fine.
Another plucky Disney ride protagonist - fuck that.
Like seriously, Boba Fett's Scooter Gang vibes from this main character.


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Funkydog
06/14/23 12:13:27 PM
#34:


deoxxys posted...
*Funkydog needs to sort out their priorities
https://youtu.be/_oVnrq-6GnY
I never said I actually would. Just that their idiocy only proves Kotaku right for once.

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Doe
06/14/23 12:16:55 PM
#35:


Are we really back to like 2013 gamergate and pretending that men and women have equal protagonist representation in aaa gaming?

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DipDipDiver
06/14/23 12:21:22 PM
#36:


Doe posted...
Are we really back to like 2013 gamergate and pretending that men and women have equal protagonist representation in aaa gaming?
But something something kotaku bad
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Supaitwo
06/14/23 12:22:11 PM
#37:


DipDipDiver posted...
But something something kotaku bad

They are objectively bad.

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TendoDRM
06/14/23 12:24:51 PM
#38:


  1. There was backlash to the game? I thought it was pretty well received.
  2. Even if there was, it proves that how?
  3. Lol at the guy mansplaining "no, actually there are plenty of female characters! Here's 3!"

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Prestoff
06/14/23 12:28:50 PM
#39:


This is such a non-troversy, but so is most things on twitter... or the internet in general.

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ThanksUglyGod
06/14/23 12:29:46 PM
#40:


Honestly SYACVG is just as bad Kotaku. Just willfully misinterpreting shit just to fuel Kotaku hatred.
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dancing_cactuar
06/14/23 12:32:43 PM
#41:


NeonTentacles posted...
Remember when Kotaku told everyone to pirate Metroid Dread and got blacklisted by Nintendo?
You forgot the part where they were so mad about not getting an advanced copy from Nintendo that they decided to spoil ToTK by writing an article on all the leaks that were spilling out and proceeded to post a pic on Twitter of a WWII bomber that went for Japanese cities and basically went "mfw I don't get a video game early".

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Questionmarktarius
06/14/23 12:33:43 PM
#42:


TendoDRM posted...
1. There was backlash to the game? I thought it was pretty well received.
2. Even if there was, it proves that how?
3. Lol at the guy mansplaining "no, actually there are plenty of female characters! Here's 3!"
"News" today is largely just plopping three or four tweets on a webpage stating "some twitter randos tweeted things!" and putting ads around it.
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DipDipDiver
06/14/23 12:35:46 PM
#43:


Supaitwo posted...
They are objectively bad.
Which in no way refutes the premise of the article
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s0nicfan
06/14/23 12:36:04 PM
#44:


Doe posted...
Are we really back to like 2013 gamergate and pretending that men and women have equal protagonist representation in aaa gaming?

Given that I'm willing to bet 99% of the people in this topic have no idea what the actual representation is, why don't we look at the actual data?

https://diamondlobby.com/geeky-stuff/female-representation-in-games/
Summary:
  • In 2022, games where the only option was female made up 45% of games without player choice.
  • In terms of all playable characters, 39% were female for multi-choice games
  • In terms of "more or less", only 28% of multi-choice games had more female choices than male, with an additional 26% having an equal amount


Here is their methodology:
We studied every game released in 2022, according to Game Informers game release schedule, between January 1st and May 18th (the date we published our research). This does not include every tiny indie game released into the world, but includes the vast majority of major titles and a large number of indie games too, across PC and consoles, and includes games developed all over the world.
There were 152 games released within the timeframe of our study.
We started by eliminating every game that was a re-release, remaster, or had previously been released on a different console. We didnt think it was fair to include these as examples of a 2022 release if they actually werent first released in 2022 at all. Sound good? We think so. 83 of the games were defined as re-releases, leaving us with 68 games to analyze.
We then determined which games had only preset playable characters, which games allowed users to customize their playable character (e.g. they had character creation functionality that allows players to change their gender, appearance and more), and which games had no known playable character (e.g. theyre never mentioned, or youre an inanimate object such as a car). 46 games had only preset playable characters, 12 games had fully customizable characters, 7 had no known character, and we eliminated 3 games due to being based on non-fictional sporting rosters (Rugby 22, MLB The Show 22 and WWE 2K22).*
Our study focused on the 46 games that only allow you to play with preset characters, meaning their gender and appearance were predefined by game developers, rather than chosen by individual gamers via freewill.
*Both Rugby 22 and MLB The Show 22 include no female teams or players, though these games were excluded from our findings.


Now, I guess you can argue that 45% of major games released in 2022 isn't parity, but given that estimates put women at 48% of gamers, that seems pretty damn close. Some will note that they did a different study last year only looking at "main character" breakdown in the 10 highest selling games from each year, but they removed any games that let you customize a character. That study put the number at 27.7% female representation among main characters.

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Questionmarktarius
06/14/23 12:40:26 PM
#45:


s0nicfan posted...
We started by eliminating every game that was a re-release, remaster, or had previously been released on a different console.
Aw... It would have been hilarious to see Kotaku squirm over Seven Pirates.
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NeonTentacles
06/14/23 12:42:23 PM
#46:


dancing_cactuar posted...
You forgot the part where they were so mad about not getting an advanced copy from Nintendo that they decided to spoil ToTK by writing an article on all the leaks that were spilling out and proceeded to post a pic on Twitter of a WWII bomber that went for Japanese cities and basically went "mfw I don't get a video game early".
Oh shit, I forgot about that LOL

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Doe
06/14/23 12:42:37 PM
#47:


s0nicfan posted...
Summary:
In 2022, games where the only option was female made up 45% of games without player choice.
In terms of all playable characters, 39% were female for multi-choice games
In terms of "more or less", only 28% of multi-choice games had more female choices than male, with an additional 26% having an equal amount
Excluding remakes and remasters, which are a huge portion of the current market, is bad methodology. They had to exclude over 50% of new releases to get this result. You're not going to pretend Resident Evil 4 isn't a top three most talked about game of the year so far, are you?

It's unsound logic that ignores the fact that the industry and market are so reliant on remakes right now and thus that decade(s) old, male-dominated IPs are still very much the face of the industry. The fact they can barely squeeze out that result after culling so much data is itself damning.

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boomgetchopped3
06/14/23 12:44:47 PM
#48:


I like to think Ive learned to separate true progressive values from click bait. Which is why I avoid Kotaku. Shame because it was the reason I originally left gfaqs. Back in the day it was the place to be
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ImagineUsngAlts
06/14/23 12:45:42 PM
#49:


Clickbaitaku vs capital g Gamers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKdJ6DnPhzk

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s0nicfan
06/14/23 12:46:46 PM
#50:


Doe posted...
Excluding remakes and remasters, which are a huge portion of the current market, is bad methodology. They had to exclude over 50% of new releases to get this result. You're not going to pretend Resident Evil 4 isn't a top three most talked about game of the year so far?

It's unsound logic that ignores the fact that the industry and market are so reliant on remakes right now and thus that decade(s) old, male-dominated IPs are still very much the face of the industry.

But then what's the actual argument for more representation? If 45% of new games are getting female leads but companies keep re-releasing old games because they sell well, then what exactly are people arguing for? 100% female leads in all new games to offset old games from decades ago that are getting remakes?

The complaint was about a lack of representation. Now, with hard data that shows that new games have almost perfect parity, the complaint has now shifted to the market being flooded with re-releases and remakes? That's a different argument entirely.

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