Poll of the Day > Montana to become the 1st US State to ban TikTok...

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/montana-becomes-first-state-to-ban-tiktok-after-governor-signs-bill-into-law/ar-AA1bk7FP

Think it's a Good Idea? (Poll Question)

We need to regulate it for sure. Idc if social media is banned now i gave up that addiction, but regulations should be being discussed or put in place.

I haven't really been following why tiktok is worse than Google, Facebook, or any other social media where people give out personal information.

slacker03150 posted...

I haven't really been following why tiktok is worse than Google, Facebook, or any other social media where people give out personal information.

Because it's fine when American companies have our data, but China having it? That's crossing a line!
But also, social media needs to be regulated. It's not used to socialize, it's used to social engineer.

I do not feel strongly one way or another, I do understand why they're doing it and I understand that people will be upset.

slacker03150 posted...

I haven't really been following why tiktok is worse than Google, Facebook, or any other social media where people give out personal information.

The app gets particularly invasive as far as the collection of personal data goes, including having full access to anything saved on your phone's clipboard (which has major security implications if you're copying passwords or the like), but it is indeed pretty much just the same privacy concerns that affect other social media, only dialed up a bit. Much of the panic over it is just because the data's being collected in China and not the US.

> Montana to become the 1st US State to ban TikTok...

States are like cable packages, you never get all the features you want from any one of them and 3/4 of what they provide is trash

I think TikTok is trash, by and large, but you cant logically ban it without banning about 100 other sites for the same reasons. There are plenty of real things to be concerned aboutlets worry about those.

wpot posted...

but you cant logically ban it without banning about 100 other sites for the same reasons.

Ah, but therein lies your mistake: You're assuming those enacting this ban care about being logically consistent. They have (or at least believe they have) more votes to gain by appealing to anti-China sentiments than they have to lose by alienating those that enjoy or make a living using Tiktok. That's all they're worried about.

adjl posted...

You're assuming those enacting this ban care about being logically consistent.

Oh, not at all. It the same as DeSantis going after Disney or even the unending conservative focus on abortion: they think it wins them the support of their base. I was just responding to the "is it a good idea". It just particularly bugs me that we are so insecure as a nation that we scared of a rival nation's video clip app stealing our credit card information...or whatever exactly we think is going to happen.

On the other hand it would probably be good to have a threatening rival again so we can apply the 'us vs them' mentality that seems to be required among a large segment of the population to something other than culture wars. Have at it, fearmongers.

Over a third of PoTD's poll voting population apparently think it's a good idea to pass a law that is both illegal (first amendment says hi) and unenforceable. And the third poll option is a cop out.

^I don't think it would be illegal if it's proves the Company behind it (which is owned my PRC IIRC) is using the Data collected for Spying.

Kinda like some other companies from there that's not allow to have Gov't contracts (Drones, Software, etc)

sveksii posted...

Over a third of PoTD's poll voting population apparently think it's a good idea to pass a law that is both illegal (first amendment says hi) and unenforceable. And the third poll option is a cop out.

The bill of rights was a huge mistake, so I'm good with that

So, here's an opinion I have on this, which you can take with as many grains of salt as you'd like:

I think the silly part is about the alleged concern of CCP influence over Tiktok. At this point, if such concern was legitimate, Hollywood would have been targeted first, or close to it with some of our national debt and whom some of it could be paid to. Nah, this is just an attack on something trendy the American elites can't control.

This will last until CCP tells our billionaires and their pocketed poli pals in office that they should rescind such a ban.

sveksii posted...

And the third poll option is a cop out.

It isn't a cop-out, it is simply that someone is going to challenge it and it is going to be ruled unconstitutional. I am not going to complain about a law that obviously has no chance of sticking around long enough to matter.

Good.

I have a friend whos always on it, with another who constantly sends me videos on it. I dont use it much, though But I see no reason to ban it, nor understand the hate it gets I dont think all the people on there are good But there are some videos I like

Vine 2.0

pionear posted...

^I don't think it would be illegal if it's proves the Company behind it (which is owned my PRC IIRC) is using the Data collected for Spying.

Kinda like some other companies from there that's not allow to have Gov't contracts (Drones, Software, etc)

Irrelevant. The way the law's currently crafted it oversteps the boundaries of state rights and likely infringes on first amendment rights. The government's ability to dictate government contracts has nothing to do with this. As people use TikTok to express themselves, the issue of the government banning it is the argument that they are essentially controlling how people are able to express themselves.

The most likely end result of this law is Montanans having to pay more in taxes to foot the multi-million dollar lawsuit after the state fails to defend itself from lawsuits on its legality.

Dikitain posted...

It isn't a cop-out, it is simply that someone is going to challenge it and it is going to be ruled unconstitutional. I am not going to complain about a law that obviously has no chance of sticking around long enough to matter.

The poll question is: "Think it's a Good Idea? (Poll Question)" The third option is answering an entirely different question "Do you think the law will last (yes/no)". It's a cop-out in that it allows you sidestep around the original question. It also highlights pionear's habit of constructing poor poll choices (something that he is by no means alone in being guilty of).

Now if only they'd add Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, and all the rest to the list we might make some progress in the right direction. I firmly believe a bulk of the social problems the modern world faces can be traced back to major social media platforms.

Ozmose posted...

Now if only they'd add Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, and all the rest to the list we might make some progress in the right direction. I firmly believe a bulk of the social problems the modern world faces can be traced back to major social media platforms.

I disagree People will be stupid regardless And will still find a way to spread the word. Including other social media sites like this and YouTube (which both could be considered social media sites in a way) The problem is certain people using them Many who used those sites just dont use it for the same purpose Like how my friends, my family, and I use Facebook or Instagram just to keep up with each other, and see whats going on with each other And get pictures of new life events And stuff like that If we got rid of the shitty users, things would be much better, though

Land of the free baby

slacker03150 posted...

I haven't really been following why tiktok is worse than Google, Facebook, or any other social media where people give out personal information.

Most people dont care though. I think you are being paranoid.

Ozmose posted...

Now if only they'd add Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, and all the rest to the list we might make some progress in the right direction. I firmly believe a bulk of the social problems the modern world faces can be traced back to major social media platforms.

Whether you're correct or not, any attempt to go down that road would just turn into an ineffectual game of whack-a-mole unless you went so far as to implement a licensing system for contributing content to the Internet in any capacity. Social media answers the demand people have to be able to communicate with their friends and acquaintances. It's the same demand that has seen people writing letters or meeting friends in markets for as long as we've had societies, so it's ferociously unlikely that it'll go anywhere any time soon. Collectively, social media just uses the internet to answer that demand in a way that's faster and more convenient than non-Internet solutions. There's no common element that could be made illegal to stop this kind of social media site from cropping up without full-on banning everyone from posting anything publicly, so the only other way to enact what you're talking about would be to evaluate how each site is doing and shut down the ones that are harmful (which would only be possible after they've already been causing harm for several years).

Certainly, social media causes a lot of mental health and social problems, mostly stemming from the fact that our innate social instincts and desires simply aren't built to have access to that many people that quickly, but it's pretty inescapable that it's here to stay. Banning certain aspects that are particularly harmful can help, but the only way to really deal with it is to improve mental health care to help people socialize online more healthily.

But where do I go for content like this?
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTREhCPPk/

i'm fine with the ban, just wish we'd be this harsh on our own shitty social media apps too.

sveksii posted...

Irrelevant. The way the law's currently crafted it oversteps the boundaries of state rights and likely infringes on first amendment rights. The government's ability to dictate government contracts has nothing to do with this. As people use TikTok to express themselves, the issue of the government banning it is the argument that they are essentially controlling how people are able to express themselves.

The most likely end result of this law is Montanans having to pay more in taxes to foot the multi-million dollar lawsuit after the state fails to defend itself from lawsuits on its legality.

Irrelevant? So what if that Foreign Gov't use that Data to Spy and Gain insight on unsuspecting Americans? Would you be happy/fine with that?

Ozmose posted...

Now if only they'd add Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, and all the rest to the list we might make some progress in the right direction. I firmly believe a bulk of the social problems the modern world faces can be traced back to major social media platforms.

While I kinda agree but those companies are US based (I think) and subjected to heavy (relatively) oversight...some of them not even available in that other Country too (just like TikTok)

pionear posted...

So what if that Foreign Gov't use that Data to Spy and Gain insight on unsuspecting Americans? Would you be happy/fine with that?

Fine enough, honestly. Anyone who thinks that almost everything they do online isn't available to a country-level actor who really wants to know about it is fooling themselves. I'm sure China has plenty of much better ways to get info about unsuspecting Americans than TikTok. I'm sorry to tell everyone this, but China doesn't actually care about your TikTok habits...or even your credit card numbers, your pornography habits, or any of the other contents of your average-person laptop. The threats you need to worry about are the ones that don't get a ton of attention in the news.

Any laptop with truly sensitive info should not be using ANY social media (or anything other than in-house apps, honestly).

wpot posted...

I'm sorry to tell everyone this, but China doesn't actually care about your TikTok habits...or even your credit card numbers, your pornography habits, or any of the other contents of your average-person laptop.

At least, the Chinese government doesn't. Plenty of Chinese corporations do, for exactly the same reasons and with exactly the same goals as American corporations. There's some legitimate concern that Chinese data protection laws aren't robust enough to trust Chinese companies with that data, but realistically, American data protection laws aren't exactly any better. It's just easier to sue domestic companies if they screw up really badly than to sue foreign ones.

adjl posted...

It's just easier to sue domestic companies if they screw up really badly than to sue foreign ones.

Sure, to the extent that makes anyone feel better. :)

Really, the greater point remains that TikTok is low on the list of computing risks concerns that Americans should be worried about. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, for our sanity) most of us aren't specifically aware what those larger risks are...

wpot posted...

Sure, to the extent that makes anyone feel better. :)

In practice, yeah, there's very little difference. But at least in America it's because you can't afford lawyers good enough, as opposed to because the law simply doesn't let you even try. It's the illusion of accountability that makes people feel more comfortable.

adjl posted...

It's the illusion of accountability that makes people feel more comfortable.

Sadly, yes. ...but don't discount "if I'm going to get ripped off I'd rather it be by own countrymen". :)

I'm worried about China collecting our genetic information because they obviously want targeted biological weapons. Not so much TikTok.

Maybe I'm a bit cynical but I think what lawmakers are really concened about is Google and FB having a competitor.