Board 8 > Can you name some RPGs that are explicitly anti-monarchy?

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BlackMageJawa
05/07/23 5:52:19 AM
#51:


Another thought- RPGs tend to be in fantasy worlds where magic and gods are provably real, so outdated concepts like the divine right of kings and 'the king is the land' - that is, that a good ruler has the blessing of a higher power and their kingdom will prosper through divine providence as long as they're on the throne- can actually be true. Democracy doesn't have that kind of mythology attached to it, which puts it at a disadvantage in a mythological setting.

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agesboy
05/07/23 7:56:46 AM
#52:


the atelier rorona series is (very) broadly about a monarchy trying to give up its powers to shift into a republic; meruru in particular is a spoiled princess that grows into actually contributing to her citizens' lives before she inevitably loses her privilege

the individual members of the monarchy are presented as good people, but they all realize their form of government isn't sustainable and want to transition out of it as soon as it's reasonable

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KamikazePotato
05/07/23 8:00:31 AM
#53:


agesboy posted...
the atelier rorona series is (very) broadly about a monarchy trying to give up its powers to shift into a republic; meruru in particular is a spoiled princess that grows into actually contributing to her citizens' lives before she inevitably loses her privilege

the individual members of the monarchy are presented as good people, but they all realize their form of government isn't sustainable and want to transition out of it as soon as it's reasonable
This is somehow the most unrealistic game plot I've ever read

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pjbasis
05/07/23 8:57:28 AM
#54:


The funniest thing about shinra is that it's a business entity that took over the role of dictators. Guess that's what happens when you try something new!

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foolm0r0n
05/07/23 9:02:04 AM
#55:


KamikazePotato posted...
I think if we're being this stringent with our requirements we're not going to find many examples from popular culture media. I can't remember the last time a story ended with a big governmental paradign shift.
Game of thrones technically

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MacArrowny
05/07/23 12:08:38 PM
#56:


foolm0r0n posted...
Game of thrones technically
No.

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HeroDelTiempo17
05/07/23 12:17:27 PM
#57:


I mean that's a clear example of a bitter ending. Explicitly anti-monarchy but it doesn't claim the structure can be abolished. Just made slightly less bad. Very cynical shit.

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andylt
05/07/23 1:16:17 PM
#58:


Yeah GoT is a strange one, it's very aware of the problems with monarchies and is very critical of the feudal system, but ultimately seems to advocate for minor reforms over anything else. I suspect the books are planned to end in broadly similar strokes to the show, but would probably frame the finale (particularly the amoral all-seeing CCTV king) in a more negative light.

GoT/ASOIAF also has the same issue that's been mentioned with several games- the vast majority of characters whose eyes we see the world through are members of the nobility themselves, so they're naturally viewed in a more sympathetic light by the viewer/reader. The common folk are treated with sympathy too, but from a much greater distance and are largely removed from the main emotional narrative.

BlackMageJawa posted...
Another thought- RPGs tend to be in fantasy worlds where magic and gods are provably real, so outdated concepts like the divine right of kings and 'the king is the land' - that is, that a good ruler has the blessing of a higher power and their kingdom will prosper through divine providence as long as they're on the throne- can actually be true. Democracy doesn't have that kind of mythology attached to it, which puts it at a disadvantage in a mythological setting.
This is a good point, but at the same time these games seem to have no problem dispatching the divine beings themselves. I guess maybe the enemies could be viewed as false gods and the 'true' divine power is with the heroes, but I still find it strange that within such fantastical magical realms filled with creativity, many of these storytellers seem unable to imagine a society removed from the confines of monarchy.

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foolm0r0n
05/07/23 1:21:17 PM
#59:


Wasn't the point that Bran would be the last king? So the monarchy ends with him. But he'll live forever so I guess it's a moot point?

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LightningStrikes
05/07/23 1:27:10 PM
#60:


My interpretation was more that it was a switch to an appointed monarchy where a technocrat would be selected by the small council. Which is to say it was the end if tge hereditary monarchy but not the monarchy outright. I think it is a reasonable compromise between maintaining the system for the sake of realism and a major societal shift which will also be the ending in the books. The issue was the show did not develop it one bit as things were so rushed.

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HeroDelTiempo17
05/07/23 1:31:20 PM
#61:


foolm0r0n posted...
Wasn't the point that Bran would be the last king? So the monarchy ends with him. But he'll live forever so I guess it's a moot point?

I mean it's still a high council + king except the council voted for the king. Presumably if something happened to Bran they'd just elect a new one. Personally I don't see how this is a significant improvement in any way but the show ends there so it's not explored. If anything I'd look at the rest of the Starks for the point - Jon and Arya both abdicate claims to power to try and live outside the system entirely. But Sansa is just doing the "good monarch" bit but in The North.

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foolm0r0n
05/07/23 1:33:01 PM
#62:


I see yeah that's the slightest of slight improvements

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HeroDelTiempo17
05/07/23 1:44:43 PM
#63:


Tangential but I've been reading the Baru Cormorant series and it's very much "what if Game of Thrones actually thought out its political stances (and was also about lesbians)" - the main character is an accountant for an evil empire who plans to rise though the ranks to reform or destroy the empire from within. But instead of gesturing at it, it really gets down in the dirt about how the empire works and what that would actually look like. I'm only halfway through book 2 but honestly the first one was so strong I feel confident recommending that one alone. So if those kinds of fantasy stories are your jam, check it out!

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trdl23
05/07/23 2:05:18 PM
#64:


Ogre Battle, if I recall? It's been a long while but I remember it really shredding the "person of lordly caliber" philosophy despite it being part of the title.

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tcaz2
05/07/23 2:10:28 PM
#65:


KamikazePotato posted...
This is somehow the most unrealistic game plot I've ever read
I mean the dude that was king in Rorona literally becomes a masked superhero to 'stealth' mentor Meruru in her game so I don't think realism is high on the agenda for the series lol

But yeah I suppose the Atelier Arland series sort of counts. It's really not the focus of the games and outside of Meruru's game where it's a bit more in focus due to her being a princess, it's mostly a background plot.
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NFUN
05/07/23 2:30:52 PM
#66:


HeroDelTiempo17 posted...
Tangential but I've been reading the Baru Cormorant series and it's very much "what if Game of Thrones actually thought out its political stances (and was also about lesbians)" - the main character is an accountant for an evil empire who plans to rise though the ranks to reform or destroy the empire from within. But instead of gesturing at it, it really gets down in the dirt about how the empire works and what that would actually look like. I'm only halfway through book 2 but honestly the first one was so strong I feel confident recommending that one alone. So if those kinds of fantasy stories are your jam, check it out!
I have been strongly told not to read past the first one. Honestly even if the sequels were good I feel they'd just water down the story the first told anyway

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BlackMageJawa
05/07/23 3:27:40 PM
#67:


I might be misremembering this, but didn't Lost Odyssey have a 'rightful' monarch who'd ceded power to a democratic council, and the big bad was trying to get him to re-establish the crown for nefarious purposes?

Although even if I'm getting that right, one of the other characters was the queen of another nation, so it still fits in the 'some monarchies good' category.

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Maniac64
05/07/23 8:35:29 PM
#68:


HeroDelTiempo17 posted...
Tangential but I've been reading the Baru Cormorant series and it's very much "what if Game of Thrones actually thought out its political stances (and was also about lesbians)" - the main character is an accountant for an evil empire who plans to rise though the ranks to reform or destroy the empire from within. But instead of gesturing at it, it really gets down in the dirt about how the empire works and what that would actually look like. I'm only halfway through book 2 but honestly the first one was so strong I feel confident recommending that one alone. So if those kinds of fantasy stories are your jam, check it out!
Who writes this?

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NFUN
05/07/23 8:37:58 PM
#69:


Seth Dickinson

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ZeldaTPLink
05/07/23 9:17:08 PM
#70:


Skies of Arcadia doesn't go 100% on it (since it has the good guy prince who wants to make things better), but for most part it focuses on the colonialist/imperialist aspect of monarchy, and how it destroyes other populations in the name of "progress".
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KamikazePotato
05/07/23 9:30:15 PM
#71:


ZeldaTPLink posted...
Skies of Arcadia doesn't go 100% on it (since it has the good guy prince who wants to make things better), but for most part it focuses on the colonialist/imperialist aspect of monarchy, and how it destroyes other populations in the name of "progress".
Destroyed its own population, too. Lower Valua is one of the bleakest cities I've visited in any RPG.

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Leonhart4
05/08/23 12:24:15 AM
#72:


Sega, please remake Skies of Arcadia

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HeroDelTiempo17
05/08/23 11:37:56 AM
#73:


NFUN posted...
I have been strongly told not to read past the first one. Honestly even if the sequels were good I feel they'd just water down the story the first told anyway

I can kind of see why - the second book has some wild shifts in scope and tone that are not present at all in the first. I enjoy them, but the realism is definitely taking a backseat against the characters and setting now. Those are just as a good so it depends on what you're there for. I'm enjoying it but I'm very good at compartmentalizing individual parts of a series away from each other, and the first book really does work as a standalone.

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andylt
05/17/23 7:03:25 PM
#74:


Baru Cormorant sounds awesome, thanks for bringing it up HDT. Ogre Battle and Skies were already on my radar but I'm glad to hear them mentioned in a positive light here. I could've sworn a remaster for Arcadia was announced but I must be confusing it with something else!

I've started Triangle Strategy thinking maybe it'd have something worthwhile to say, but I doubt it's gonna head in any kind of anti-monarchy direction. It might surprise me, given each nation has its own distinct political system and the game wants to try and raise interesting ethical questions, but I'm not holding my breath.

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_SecretSquirrel
05/17/23 8:18:45 PM
#75:


KamikazePotato posted...
Destroyed its own population, too. Lower Valua is one of the bleakest cities I've visited in any RPG.
Yeah, earlier it was pointed out that it still ends with good guy prince Enrique becoming emporer, but even then, the Valua he gets is just the survivors of the decimated empire.

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LeonhartFour
05/17/23 10:09:20 PM
#76:


_SecretSquirrel posted...
Yeah, earlier it was pointed out that it still ends with good guy prince Enrique becoming emporer, but even then, the Valua he gets is just the survivors of the decimated empire.

And the old world was destroyed through the hubris of its rulers, to boot. Enrique is treated as a major exception because everyone else basically proves Galcian and Ramirez right.

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paperwarior
05/23/23 12:21:04 AM
#77:


This is more of an ending plot point than the whole premise but Rance IX has former prince Patton dissolve the monarchy as his first and only act as emperor. The previous empress, who had never held any actual power, is appointed as the first president of the new government.

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Xtlm
05/23/23 4:14:43 AM
#78:


Septerra Core?

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