Current Events > NYC Mayor rips AOC for calling the subway chokehold murder.

(+) Yeah! (+)

g980 posted...

This is the correct way for public figures to behave

Was it fucked up and almost definitely murder? Yeah. Duh.

But elected officials should be championing due process, not rabble rousing

they threw due process out the window as soon as they chose to not charge the guy with a crime or even detain him

What's irresponsible is not being willing to call out vigilantism.

Should the other two people get accessory charges?

This is a very stark reminder that unhoused people are straight up less than fully human in many people's eyes.

The guy didn't do anything that warranted violence at all, much less death. He was yelling about the fact that he was on the ass end of society and completely abandoned and was killed for it. And now the mayor refused to condemn blatant vigilante murder/lynching.

There's no doubt that if this was a wall street bro having a mental breakdown, people would recognize his humanity and recognize the unjustified violence used against him, rather than going full cop and saying "but they were scared"

A trained combatant choked a man...for 15 minutes.

How the fuck is that not murder

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


You see, he was only blood choking him for a full 3 minutes instead of 15. Totally different.

It's not like with enough pressure you can induce full unconsciousness in 10 seconds or anything.

Gotta love the chud showing up to "well ackshually" and cape for a murderer then disappearing once people are like yeah it's still murder.

Watched the video. Yeah, those three are probably going down. Its odd that the witnesses were saying he was resisting and fighting the whole time. I was imagining that they went limp after a minute and the choker just kept on choking.

If they can't prove that he intended to kill the guy, then he walks. Case closed. Try again next time.

Hornswoggled posted...

If they can't prove that he intended to kill the guy, then he walks. Case closed. Try again next time.

They only have to prove he intended to harm for murder charges.

I can imagine that NY subways are worse than the ones here in Chicago and that's saying a lot.

I stopped taking the CTA as much because of how shitty the trains are now.

Last time I took one, there was some dude smoking weed on the back of the train, then goes back to the conductor room or whatever and starts pissing back there. Apparently there was someone back there because there was yelling, with some dude saying "You gonna piss on me motherfucker?!"

Yeah so everyone got off that train car at the next stop and moved to another one, then the train got delayed at the stop after that as we waited for the cops to come.

Shit like that happens every damn day.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

It is if they charge him for 1st degree murder. They could probably go for 2nd degree but would still be a tough case. Manslaughter would be a slam dunk.

Hornswoggled posted...

If they can't prove that he intended to kill the guy, then he walks. Case closed. Try again next time.

Keep in mind, there was kind of a big trial recently that was very similar to this in Derek Chauvin, who was in fact charged with 2nd degree murder and also manslaughter. At the least, from reading the blurds about this in this topic, it sounds like they could get him with manslaughter which.... in the eyes of the public, guess what that makes you?

The sonic guy dipped out once everyone pointed out it was still murder

Dude is such a coward

thronedfire2 posted...

they threw due process out the window as soon as they chose to not charge the guy with a crime or even detain him

I dont think detainment is a requirement for due process

And i havent heard anything about the DA not wanting to charge the guy, just that they havent yet

AOC is wrong
Dude was clearly manslaughtered

Lotta strong opinions firing off in here before all the facts are known. Thank God you guys aren't going to be on the jury, if there's a trial.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Lotta strong opinions firing off in here before all the facts are known. Thank God you guys aren't going to be on the jury, if there's a trial.

Keep up Gobby, one of you chuds already did this sealioning bit.

Murphiroth posted...

Keep up Gobby, one of you chuds already did this sealioning bit.

Wait for the investigation. You're making statements without full knowledge of the situation right now. It's not a good look.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Wait for the investigation. You're making statements without full knowledge of the situation right now. It's not a good look.

We know there was no justification to put hands on the guy, we know his killer should've known the danger of a headlock so was clearly intending to do harm, and we know the guy died.

That's enough for murder.

There's a video of the guy choking the victim out to death, but apparently "we gotta wait for the evidence first".

Some people really just want legal murder.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Wait for the investigation. You're making statements without full knowledge of the situation right now. It's not a good look.

Guy was being obnoxious and loud on the train, doesn't justify a vigilante killing from a trained combatant who 100% knew what that choke would do when held for that long.

Also looool at trusting any investigation from the NYPD.

Shush Trumpanzee.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

I mean how do we know this man didn't overdose on fentanyl while being choked the fuck out for 3+ minutes? Checkmate libruls

RuneterranSnap posted...

We know there was no justification to put hands on the guy

How do you know this?

Gobstoppers12 posted...

How do you know this?

Please provide a justification for a random vigilante bystander (who is trained and knows what that choke will do) to kill a man.

https://www.theonion.com/eric-adams-killed-by-vigilante-after-acting-erratic-as-1850404866

Damn lmao

Smashingpmkns posted...

https://www.theonion.com/eric-adams-killed-by-vigilante-after-acting-erratic-as-1850404866

Damn lmao

Lmfao

Sheiky-Baby posted...

Guy thought he was Royce Gracie watching UFC, and shit. A careless, fucking dumbass? Yes. A murderer? Nah. Don't believe that was the intention.

He intended to harm him. Then he died. It doesnt actually matter if he intended to kill him. Its still murder. As many people have already said.

If you aim a gun at someone and pull the trigger with the intent to just graze them, hit them in the arm, and they bleed to death, its murder bud.

s0nicfan posted...

Oh look, another topic where a bunch of people reply with strong opinions with no idea what happened.

Did everyone else know that other people on the train were also actively restraining the guy? No? Of course not.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65472810

Also note how 3 minutes became "15 minutes" and everyone just runs with that.

Actually...you're the one who jumped to conclusions. A lot of people are misinformed. The 15 minutes and 3 minutes are BOTH right...in a way.

Let me explain. The 15 minutes comes from the testimony of the spanish speaking dude who videotaped the incident.
https://www.facebook.com/people/Luces-de-Nueva-York/100090412633635/
Seems like most news places cite this facebook page as being the originator of the video.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/video-captures-man-s-death-during-chokehold-by-fellow-new-york-subway-passenger/ar-AA1aIhYd
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/02/nyregion/subway-chokehold-death.html
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/6/3/AABn_6AAEcgz.png
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/6/4/AABn_6AAEcg0.png
To go further into it, he actually says this in his facebook post.

En esa postura estuvieron cerca de 15 minutos mientras otros pasajeros y el operador del tren llamaba a la polica (como se escucha en el video). Los uniformados, por cierto, nunca llegaron. Mientras el ahora cautivo luchaba por safarse de la llave, otros samaritanos se acercaron para auxiliar al guero y evitar que el otro escapara. Uno de ellos que recien habia abordado con una mujer, pareca mediar entre los dos que luchaban en el piso.

I'll post the google translation

They were in that position for about 15 minutes while other passengers and the train operator called the police (as heard on the video). The uniformed men, by the way, never arrived. While the now captive struggled to get out of the key [google translates this literally but llave in this case means chokehold], other Samaritans came to help the guero and prevent the other from escaping. One of them, who had just approached with a woman, seemed to mediate between the two who were fighting on the floor.

It's a bit butchered but I can say as a spanish speaking person it's about right for that specific passage. Essentially they were in this "position" of choking the guy for about 15 minutes and he recorded about 4 minutes of it before leaving for his appointment at Yonkers(I have no clue).
Poor guy even references George Floyd saying that he choked him to the point that he stopped moving and continued.

Al final se ve cmo el agresivo men se queda inerte tras la tenaza en su cuello en una consecuencia que me record a la de George Floyd.

So basically he WAS being choked for 15 minutes or at least supposedly "restrained" and then 2 people came to help him out, and this guy starts recording.

I would say he was NOT being choked for just 3 minutes, but we WAS being choked for 15 minutes and only 3 minutes of the 15 minutes of choking was recorded.

A lot of people would do well to cross reference MANY articles before jumping to conclusions. Especially if two different people are saying different numbers, take the time to see WHY that happened. In this case I see it as someone noticed the video being 3-4 minutes long and ASSUMED that the choking happened for that long. While other articles state 15 minutes, because they read the guy's testimony.

According to Juan Alberto Vzquez, this guy basically came in screaming and a guy (marine he didn't know though) came in and choked him for 15 minutes. It's certainly homicide for sure, did he INTEND to do it? I don't know this fucker is supposedly a marine surely he SHOULD know that holding someone in a choke hold for 15 minutes will kill him. Whether that was the intent or not, the courts will have to decide that. But I'd go off the knowledge that the guy being a marine did know it COULD kill, will get him slammed for murder. But again all we have is 3 minutes of footage and a testimony from a primary witness who documented it ASAP which is pretty useful.

I want to make a point here, NONE OF THE NEWS ARTICLES I READ. NONE TRANSLATED THE ENTIRE FACEBOOK POST OF JUAN ALBERTO VAZQUEZ. NONE. ALL they did was either paraphrase CERTAIN parts of it, or took his headline post for drama.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/6/5/AABn_6AAEcg1.png
This headline post if you don't know. This is what most if not ALL the news places quote.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/6/6/AABn_6AAEcg2.png
News media failed on ALL parts here honestly. I'm PISSED that I had to go this far to research and read shit that is FREELY available to be as informed as this about the subject. ALL it would take for these fucking journalists is asking a spanish translator to translate the post so they could have a bigger picture for themselves and for their readers. Disgusting.

I read MSN (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/video-captures-man-s-death-during-chokehold-by-fellow-new-york-subway-passenger/ar-AA1aIhYd)
I read NYTimes (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/02/nyregion/subway-chokehold-death.html)
I read APnews (https://apnews.com/article/nyc-subway-death-headlock-c1b1383b3163f3f5d2c22a267bc52f41)
I read NYPost (https://nypost.com/2023/05/02/shocking-video-shows-vagrant-being-choked-to-death-on-nyc-subway/)
NONE put the entire translated post for others to read and learn from and make their own views.
AND YES I DID READ YOUR FUCKING BBC ARTICLE @s0nicfan. I'm FURIOUS about this. Why do I have to spend an hour of my time to find the distinction between 3 minutes and 15 minutes. It's stupid.

Of course nobody will read this post because all they do is read the OP and react so whatever. At least I tried to inform some people about what DID happen according to one guy's facebook post that ALL news media references but don't bother translating wholly.

badjay posted...

<Content>

Thanks for the update, and good on you for doing the leg work.

s0nicfan posted...

Thanks for the update, and good on you for doing the leg work.

I'm not mad at you specifically if my post comes across as that, I'm legitimately pissed at all the news articles I read (to corroborate what you said or at least find out why the fuck people think it's 15 vs 3 minutes of choking) who have an ACTUAL GUY ON THE SCENE RECORDING AND DOCUMENTING HIS THOUGHTS ON THE MATTER don't actually put the WHOLE THOUGHT, and instead just put the "cool or dramatic" sounding part of his thoughts. It's hilarious because if they REALLY wanted to shake things up, they should've used that the line the guy himself uses about this reminding him of what happened to George Floyd. NOBODY USES THAT LINE. That shit is fucking gold, but they didn't because they didn't fucking translate the guys post wholly. It's disappointing and I'm just frustrated because all this misinformation happens so much and it's so easy to cross reference things and get it right the first god damned time.

badjay posted...

I'm not mad at you specifically if my post comes across as that, I'm legitimately pissed at all the news articles I read (to corroborate what you said or at least find out why the fuck people think it's 15 vs 3 minutes of choking) who have an ACTUAL GUY ON THE SCENE RECORDING AND DOCUMENTING HIS THOUGHTS ON THE MATTER don't actually put the WHOLE THOUGHT, and instead just put the "cool or dramatic" sounding part of his thoughts. It's hilarious because if they REALLY wanted to shake things up, they should've used that the line the guy himself uses about this reminding him of what happened to George Floyd. NOBODY USES THAT LINE. That shit is fucking gold, but they didn't because they didn't fucking translate the guys post wholly. It's disappointing and I'm just frustrated because all this misinformation happens so much and it's so easy to cross reference things and get it right the first god damned time.

Don't worry, I didn't interpret your post as being upset at me directly. I can only assume that in cases like this one story ran with the quote and then everyone else just copied it in a race to be out with their own front page rendition.

s0nicfan posted...

Thanks for the update, and good on you for doing the leg work.

lol

s0nicfan posted...

Don't worry, I didn't interpret your post as being upset at me directly. I can only assume that in cases like this one story ran with the quote and then everyone else just copied it in a race to be out with their own front page rendition.

That is infuriating to think about honestly.

So this guy who did isnt arrested or on bail nd currently running free?

Chuds: "We should absolutely swiftly execute people if we have video evidence that they murdered someone. They shouldn't get a bunch of appeals if it's without a doubt."

Also chuds: "Due process is important and it is dangerous and irresponsible for an elected official to call a killing on video 'a murder' until the alleged attacker is tried and convicted in a court of law."

Hey, bub do you actually care about this or are you just using it as an outlet to get pissy with conservatives?

Oh the guy is a marine? Should look into his history to see how much he has killed before. This was his first response?