Poll of the Day > Well, D&D tonight was a blast...

(+) Yeah! (+)

I was pretending to be Mr. Bell (the Vice CEO of Taco Bell) I meant the main bad guy who will eventually be out final boss. When I introduced myself, he said, You looked different. I said, I changed somewhat. He said, Your race. I said, Yeah. And very confidently I rolled deception with advantage. The first roll was just a little under what I needed. The second roll was a Nat 20, +10 deception So, a 30. Obviously, he believed me It was amazing. The DM wasnt sure what to do But, he believed I got a procedure in Thailand I do love D&D

LinkPizza posted...

So, a 30. Obviously, he believed me

Uhm, no? Nat 20s are not automatic successes on skill checks.

Skill checks can be impossible.

Nichtcrawler-X posted...

Uhm, no? Nat 20s are not automatic successes on skill checks.

Skill checks can be impossible.

Sure They can be Though, most DMs I know wouldnt do that. And would give a success to a Nat 20 And for our games, our DM lets Nat 20 be successes as long as its something he lets us do So, maybe in your games, they arent. But in ours, Nat 20s are successes

RAW they are not for skill checks, or saves, only for attack rolls.

Sure, reaching a 30 on a Deception check means you are a real bs'er (in character), some things should still be an impossible sell.
Changing race being believable probably depends on the magic level of a setting.

Nichtcrawler-X posted...

RAW they are not for skill checks, or saves, only for attack rolls.

Sure, reaching a 30 on a Deception check means you are a real bs'er (in character), some things should still be an impossible sell.
Changing race being believable probably depends on the magic level of a setting.

Again, a lot of it depends on your DMs And as I said, our DMs (and most I know) will let a Nat 20 skill check succeed Also, changing races probably wouldnt be as shocking in a world with magic portals opening everywhere, and literal magic Not to mention, theres some kind of procedure in Thailand So, for our games, our DMs lets Nat 20 be successes as long as its something he lets us do So, maybe in your games, they arent. But in ours, Nat 20s are successes

what

In the end, a game is suppose to be fun. And we all had fun And tbf, the DM had actually set the target score lower than 30

Greenfox111 posted...

what

Which part?

Nichtcrawler-X posted...

Uhm, no? Nat 20s are not automatic successes on skill checks.

That depends on how the DM wants to apply house rules, but I think the reason it should be obvious was because LinkPizza just said "The first roll was just a little under what I needed."

LinkPizza posted...

Sure They can be Though, most DMs I know wouldnt do that. And would give a success to a Nat 20 And for our games, our DM lets Nat 20 be successes as long as its something he lets us do So, maybe in your games, they arent. But in ours, Nat 20s are successes

In my limited experience, my friends that have DM'd have generally treated natural 20's as automatic successes so long as it doesn't outright break the game. If one of us, say, said "I roll to throw a knife randomly into the crowd trying to instantly kill the BBEG and end the campaign," a natural 20 wouldn't succeed because that would be lame, but we all have fun trying to come up with crazy ways for something implausible to happen because the dice willed it, and that's really the only point of playing. For something as fluid as TTRPGs, rules can and should be bent if doing so will make the overall experience more enjoyable for everyone.

adjl posted...

In my limited experience, my friends that have DM'd have generally treated natural 20's as automatic successes so long as it doesn't outright break the game. If one of us, say, said "I roll to throw a knife randomly into the crowd trying to instantly kill the BBEG and end the campaign," a natural 20 wouldn't succeed because that would be lame, but we all have fun trying to come up with crazy ways for something implausible to happen because the dice willed it, and that's really the only point of playing. For something as fluid as TTRPGs, rules can and should be bent if doing so will make the overall experience more enjoyable for everyone.

Basically And in the end, this made the conversation I was having way more fun

It is a choice a DM and a group make together. Whether nat 1s and nat 20s apply to anything besides attack rolls.

I am sure your DM gladly throws dozens of weak attacks on a concentrating spell caster for that 5% guaranteed chance to break their concentration.

Nichtcrawler-X posted...

It is a choice a DM and a group make together. Whether nat 1s and nat 20s apply to anything besides attack rolls.

I am sure your DM gladly throws dozens of weak attacks on a concentrating spell caster for that 5% guaranteed chance to break their concentration.

As of right now, we dont have any spellcasters needing concentration. So that doesnt even apply to us

Nichtcrawler-X posted...

It is a choice a DM and a group make together. Whether nat 1s and nat 20s apply to anything besides attack rolls.

I am sure your DM gladly throws dozens of weak attacks on a concentrating spell caster for that 5% guaranteed chance to break their concentration.

Only if they expect that to create a more enjoyable experience for everyone involved, which they probably don't. There's no obligation to be consistent in bending rules like that.

There is some balance involved with only Attacks auto failing and succeeding on 1 and 20 RAW.

Like I said, all of it comes down to the group and what the group expects or can compromise on.

I have a frontline spellcaster with Warcaster and +9 on Con Saves. We also have many characters with Expertises. All of which are devalued if we were to play with auto on other Checks and Saves and those characters would have been built entirely different.

Also, now I am wondering, how would Nat 1's being auto fails, interact with Reliable Talent? Is it just not a 1, or does the Nat 1 still trump it?

AFAIK, reliable talent would trump since it treats any roll 9 or less as a 10

Well, let's go through the text.

By 11th level, you have refined your chosen Skills until they approach perfection. Whenever you make an ability check that lets you add your Proficiency bonus, you can treat a d20 roll of 9 or lower as a 10.

So, it's less than 9. Then it's treated like a 10.
So rolling a 1 is treated like a 10.
So there's no crit fail in that case.

Yep Based on the skill itself, it makes sense their wouldnt be a crit fail, as well

I always did the rolls a bit like shadowruns system, where the pinnacle of what you can do, independent of the roll, is based on your natural skill.

A nat 20 with a 6 skill in deception therefore can do anything that I think has a difficulty level of 26 or less automatically.

It's not a complete failure after that, but you might not make a total success even with a 20 with only 6 deception skill.

A 20 would work fine (however you get there) for most normal types of deceptions, and convincing someone you changed your race and are another person would just increase the difficulty level of convincing someone that you are that person in the first place. It would also depend on how much knowledge you have of the person you are pretending to be etc.

In general, i'd probably put the DC on convincing someone you are another person around 19-20 base, as long as you have decent knowledge of the person you are pretending to be (have met them and conversed with them, they are a well known figure and you have investigated how they act etc).

Adding to that convincing someone you are that person AND changed your race would probably put the DC significantly over 20....but still below 30 I would say. A nat skill of 8 or higher (which isn't THAT hard to get) would probably be sufficient with a nat 20, but would still fail, at least partially with anything less than that.

Anyway that is how I would play it.

I don't rule 20's as an automatic success but I'd rule 30 on a deception check for a cosmetic race change procedure in Thailand as a success

DC28 I think completely ignoring the target's intelligence and intimacy with Mr Bell just cause it's funny... of course assuming that's the vibe of the game

josh posted...

I don't rule 20's as an automatic success but I'd rule 30 on a deception check for a cosmetic race change procedure in Thailand as a success

DC28 I think completely ignoring the target's intelligence and intimacy with Mr Bell just cause it's funny... of course assuming that's the vibe of the game

I think the way the game described 30 was doing something impossible. Since the max for the skill I could get was 10, and roll the max I could on the die, which was 20 So, I was happy with what I got Haha. And it definitely fits the vibe Its mostly been us just having fun with it I mean, my character is a gay Bard (soon Bard/Druid) pretending to be a Wizard after getting kicked out of Wizard school (Called Swinepimple) And the only reason I was still pretending to be Mr. Bell was because we didnt have money to pay for Taco Bell But we forgot we did

Oh your CHARACTER was pretending to be "Mr bell" I get it now

Greenfox111 posted...

Oh your CHARACTER was pretending to be "Mr bell" I get it now

Oh Thats what you were wondering Haha

Oh, man Tonight has been one of the best games! So many high rolls So many Nat 20s And for a little while, I had a Jason Mamoa fish boyfriend We also got 2 Nat 20s in a row to get a Pliosaurus to smash through the floor We also derailed a train in the underwater Disney Land Tonight has just been great

speaking of DnD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IREgYXOJDe4

Almost had a fish orgy where I was ducking three merman Jason Mamoas with Black, Blonde, and Red hair All thats left is the Blue Haired one Lost in another universe

I can't wait until I can get my next cantrip slot and then have my homonculus cast shocking grasp every turn

That entire scenario sounds God awful. Like holy shit. Glad you had fun but I'm more glad that I basically have the greatest DM of all time, no exaggeration.

antman811 posted...

That entire scenario sounds God awful. Like holy shit. Glad you had fun but I'm more glad that I basically have the greatest DM of all time, no exaggeration.

Really? Not sure why it sounded so horrible As for DMs, I cant think of who was my best one Ive only had a few. But so far, all of them have been pretty good. And give us a good amount of freedom with how we do things, which is always fun Got another game later tonight Were about to be arrested by the universe hopping police people