Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 402: This Election Sucks and is Now About Trains

(+) Yeah! (+)

guffguy89 posted...

the shooter was a transgender female to be specific, and was a former student at the school, which is a K-6 school. Three student and three adults are dead beside the killer. Poor kids.

Oh no

Really?

Apparently the shooter wrote a manifesto and had this all planned out with drawings of the school and entrances.

And I just found out that it wasn't a trans female; it was a trans male. Female at birth, but identified as male. This is going to be a media circus.

I just feel bad for those kids. Three 9 year olds reportedly killed. They did not deserve that. This just sucks.

A terrible incident altogether, but the killer being trans is just gonna create a shit storm of blame pointing unfortunately. Wouldnt be surprised if theres already loads of that garbage being posted even. Fucking loser nutjobs in this country will never blame it on the actual problem because clearly its not the guns when this doesnt happen in any other country on the planet the way it does in America. If moving was more affordable especially to another country I wouldnt be surprised if a nice chunk of Americans just left this dumpster fire

Hate to say it but a trans person shooting up a Christian private school is one of the few things that probably could get gun control passed in the US. Unfortunately if that happens I expect it will be gun control for trans people specifically.

Kenri posted...

Unfortunately if that happens I expect it will be gun control for trans people specifically.

100% we're getting "being trans is a mental illness that should bar someone from owning a gun"

in addition to well, ramping up legislation to make transitioning itself illegal

oh god damn it

I dont think America will ever get real gun control. Every single school in the country including the private and/or religious ones could have a shooting on the same day and theyd still do fucking nothing worthwhile even if they were all done by cisgender white guys. They literally do not care about the lives of children at all

Grimlyn posted...

100% we're getting "being trans is a mental illness that should bar someone from owning a gun"

in addition to well, ramping up legislation to make transitioning itself illegal

So it's just going to be the usual "mental illness is the real issue, but we're opposed to fixing that too" response, but with LGBT bashing added in? Thanks, I hate it.

The real mental health crisis is the fascists pedophiles protecting child marriages and mass shootings. Theyre mentally unwell and nothing is being done about it

Gun control when it happens when it threatens politicians, not peasants. The limited control we have now partially came about due to Reagan being scared of the Black Panthers.

An interesting trend I'm seeing is that more conservative media outlets are using she/her pronouns (not entirely sure what the shooter preferred or how important that even is given the atrocities the shooter performed), while liberal media outlets are not using pronouns at all, crafting the articles in such a way to avoid them.

guffguy89 posted...

not entirely sure what the shooter preferred or how important that even is given the atrocities the shooter performed

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/9/3/AACm-yAAEUx9.jpg
(in this case the trans person who did a horrible thing is also dead, so they're not even around for you to potentially hurt them, making it doubly pointless)

https://twitter.com/mattwalshblog/status/1640533721408319491?s=46&t=v9nzYLLBIiNYrqldFs9NWQ

Spoiler is a Matt Walsh tweet, dude is a cretin and I cant help but feel like things are going to get bad before they get worse.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

https://twitter.com/mattwalshblog/status/1640533721408319491?s=46&t=v9nzYLLBIiNYrqldFs9NWQ

Spoiler is a Matt Walsh tweet, dude is a cretin and I cant help but feel like things are going to get bad before they get worse.

Ugh the tweet still popped up even with the spoiler tag because it was the first tweet of the page.

Not at all surprised by the content

matt walsh is legitimately one of the biggest pieces of shit on the planet.

Well frankly the fact that it was a transgender shooter is incredibly irrelevant, the US has had thousands of mass shootings in the last several years, eventually one is going to be trans just like any other characteristic you can think of. What caused this and all the others was guns. Nothing else really matters.

masterplum posted...

Its as relevant as the shooter who was a religious extremist, or the New Zealand shooter who was a conspiracy nut.

In both cases the circumstances of the shooting were discussed.

presumably, those things were relevant because it was about causation instead of correlation (i.e. the religious extremist shot people because of their religious beliefs).

whether the shooter was trans or cis is literally 0% relevant.

Mr_Lasastryke posted...

presumably, those things were relevant because it was about causation instead of correlation (i.e. the religious extremist shot people because of their religious beliefs).

whether the shooter was trans or cis is literally 0% relevant.

Do we know why the shooting occurred yet? It seems early to state if there is relevance.

And of course its not 0% relevant. Men commit more violent crimes than women, poor people commit more crime than rich people.

Everythjng is relevant

masterplum posted...

Its as relevant as the shooter who was a religious extremist, or the New Zealand shooter who was a conspiracy nut.

In both cases the circumstances of the shooting were discussed.

Is it just a statistical anomaly? Possible, but its worth noting to see if this becomes a trend.

No it absolutely is not and frankly thats an absolutely disgusting thing to say. The Christchurch shooter was a far-right extremist who carried out an attack explicitly to further that agenda. It is revolting to try and imply that being transgender is either anywhere near the same level or in any way likely to cause a shooting. Thats just bigotry and hatred so frankly should be bannable but Im not expecting the mods to understand why. Thank you for revealing yourself though.

look out everybody, plum 'just has some concerns'

As much as we shouldnt even engage, the simple fact is that plums own logic reveals how nonsensical he is being. Transgender people commit shootings at a far lower rate, the fact that its a transgender shooter is very unusual. Therefore according to plums own logic its not relevant. Just couldnt wait for a chance to hate on a minority for being a minority though.

Paratroopa1 posted...

look out everybody, plum 'just has some concerns'

Yeah, and its dumb not to.

If anti transgender laws are causing extremist violence thats a problem.

it is ridiculously early to draw that conclusion but you dont just sweep away data points because they make you uncomfortable

*insert Padme meme here*
A problem with the laws right?

masterplum posted...

Yeah, and its dumb not to.

If anti transgender laws are causing extremist violence thats a problem.

it is ridiculously early to draw that conclusion but you dont just sweep away data points because they make you uncomfortable

it's still a false equivalency to say the shooter being trans is as relevant as the political leanings of the new zealand shooter, because we KNOW how relevant the beliefs of the new zealand shooter were. in the case of this shooting, it's extremely early and we don't know anything yet.

oh he's warned lol

Mr_Lasastryke posted...

oh he's warned lol

Deservedly so.

Rare mod W

masterplum posted...

Yeah, and its dumb not to.

If anti transgender laws are causing extremist violence thats a problem.

it is ridiculously early to draw that conclusion but you dont just sweep away data points because they make you uncomfortable

Plum, when you get back...

I think anti transgender laws are the problem. That's the correct take.

masterplum posted...

poor people commit more crime than rich people.

No one else gonna call out this BS?

ARRESTED more than rich people, sure

Nah its true but largely because of necessity. When you dont have a way to support yourself its much easier to get involved with crime because you dont have any other options. Thats why theres such a strong link between reducing inequality and reducing crime. The way to prevent crime is not through a massive police presence but through a strong social safety net and community supports.

If you go by per capita I'm not sure it is true even then. Or at least not as clear cut.

That said poor people tend to commit more easily proven crimes then, for instance, a ponzie scheme. And that's not even getting into legal representation costs.

SirChris posted...

Plum, when you get back...

I think anti transgender laws are the problem. That's the correct take.

Its possibly a backtrack, but its fair to say its closer to correct. But his original post was too much in line with what is happening with every right wing chud right now.

Theyre all lining up behind the obviously bullshit and unfathomably despicable position of See! Transgender people and their ideology is dangerous!

So I think its important to make a VERY CLEAR distinction between being transgender makes you dangerous, and threatening transgender people with genocide may cause them to push back.

I'm not trying to attack any ideology when I say this, but let's not entertain the idea that any adult who shoots up an elementary school is pushing back against anything.

Yeah thats why I said closer to correct.

Its not right, but theres a fragment of something there. As opposed to his original post, which just echoed reactionary fuckery.

Fair enough.

I will say that even then framing it that way is a trap. Don't let them choose your words for you.

kevwaffles posted...

I'm not trying to attack any ideology when I say this, but let's not entertain the idea that any adult who shoots up an elementary school is pushing back against anything.

Lots of them are pushing back against something, or at least they think they are. That doesn't mean it's logical and it especially doesn't make it justified. But it also doesn't make sense to pretend mass shooters are, like, completely distinct and outside of current political, social, and economic issues.

Don't put words in my mouth, Kenri. Nowhere did I pretend any of that.

That's the way it came across! I'm not sure what you mean by "let's not entertain the idea that any adult who shoots up an elementary school is pushing back against anything" otherwise. But I apologize if I've misrepresented your position.

Then I suppose your mistake was assuming I was talking about the choice of violence in general. I was not.

Whatever may fundamentally break a person, an adult choosing an elementary school is the point where said adult abandons whatever fucked up ideals they may or may not even have for a higher kill count against targets that are less capable of fighting back. Plain and simple.

I really hesitated to clarify this because I hate having to think this way let alone verbalize it.

Yeah, I am puzzled at some of the facts so far. so the shooter had attended the school, which one would easily conclude maybe they were bullied or had a difficult time at that school. But remember, this was a K-6 school, and the shooter was 28 years old. The shooter had gone to middle school, high school, and lived quite a few years as an adult, but all of a sudden wants to settle an elementary school grudge? Was that truly where the person was most wronged in life? It just seems strange.

I mean, clearly this individual was very mentally disturbed to act out an attack like this, so I'm not expecting any logical reasoning in their actions, but it's just peculiar.

guffguy89 posted...

But remember, this was a K-6 school, and the shooter was 28 years old. The shooter had gone to middle school, high school, and lived quite a few years as an adult,

I'm sure everyone has had different experiences...but if I had to pick a schooling level where the kids were cruelest, elementary school is an easy winner for me.

kevwaffles posted...

Whatever may fundamentally break a person, an adult choosing an elementary school is the point where said adult abandons whatever fucked up ideals they may or may not even have for a higher kill count against targets that are less capable of fighting back. Plain and simple.

I mean, I just plain don't agree with this. This is exactly the kind of thinking I was cautioning against.

But I respect that you don't want to think or talk about this (I don't either) and I think we can leave it at agreeing to disagree.

There's no reason not to assume proximity as a factor just because they went there, though.

On another note, I haven't really seen a reliable source anywhere confirm or deny whether this person was trans. And if they're indeed transmasc, I have yet to hear anything but the (potential) deadname. I hate dwelling on shooters so much, but are we sure we're not just spreading rumors here?

On another another note, what I do know has been confirmed is that despite ongoing treatment for mental illness this person did legally purchase 7 guns, 3 of which were used. Because of course.

I saw a clip of a reporter saying theres a manifesto that says exactly why they did it. Id say they probably wont release it, but they literally released body cam footage of them being killed already, so who knows?

I do agree with kev that your ideology falls apart when you target kids, but trying to find the way isnt trying to justify what happened, its more trying to figure out what put them on that path.

Kenri posted...

I mean, I just plain don't agree with this. This is exactly the kind of thinking I was cautioning against.

But I respect that you don't want to think or talk about this (I don't either) and I think we can leave it at agreeing to disagree.

To be clear, I mean choosing an elementary school over, for instance, a courthouse, police station, a bank, a store, a restaurant, or just about any other place I can come up with.

I know what you mean. I just don't see a distinction there.

To be clear here what I'm saying is effectively: if a racist says "I'm going to do violence because I want to push back against black people in white society" and then shoots up a school, it does not make sense to say "well it was a school so they weren't pushing back against anything". Clearly they were. Like, people - even the worst people you can think of - typically do things for reasons, even if those reasons make no sense, aren't based on objective reality, and/or are incredibly fucked up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv48v4-Mqrc

I know not everyone likes Vaush here, but I like this video so shrug tbh

i just find it hard (if not impossible) to take someone who describes himself as a "libertarian socialist" seriously.

that video was good, though.

Ill just remind everyone that it is illegal in many places to share terror-related manifestos. Also once again this is about guns above all else.

So for everyone that was in support of the multiple anti-trans bills and bans because they wanted to protect kids they are now trying to make the ban extend to age 26 in several states including my own.