Board 8 > NFL Week 12 Discussion Topic

(+) Yeah! (+)

It happens infrequently enough that I am fine leaving it as is. It's making it any more successful than it is currently that I'd rather just abolish it rather than that.

Punt/Kick returns are exciting plays and I do miss them now that they're extremely rare - but for the sake of player safety I can accept it because that's obviously more important.

As for onside kicks, I feel like it's just not many teams get too inventive with them. I feel like a lot of the successful attempts are where the kicking team adds an unusual wrinkle to it other than just "kick it where everyone expects and hope for a weird hop" but maybe analytics proves I'm wrong here and that really is the most successful method? I'm not sure the sample size is really high enough to bear any conclusion out but yeah.

Thorn posted...

Punt/Kick returns are exciting plays and I do miss them now that they're extremely rare - but for the sake of player safety I can accept it because that's obviously more important.

As for onside kicks, I feel like it's just not many teams get too inventive with them. I feel like a lot of the successful attempts are where the kicking team adds an unusual wrinkle to it other than just "kick it where everyone expects and hope for a weird hop" but maybe analytics proves I'm wrong here and that really is the most successful method? I'm not sure the sample size is really high enough to bear any conclusion out but yeah.

I wouldn't be surprised if weird hops are what yields the best results, because the entire premise behind their failure rate is that they're expected. If something unexpected happens, that puts both teams on more equal footing in terms of recovering the ball.

I think there's only so many ways you can game the kick itself because the receiving team has so much of an advantage: kicking the ball high or having something unexpected happen really is the best you can hope for, and even then the weird bounces are just putting the ball high enough that it gives the kicking team time to contest anyway, so I think ultimately it's just get the ball high enough.

There are only so many ways you can kick a ball short, so you really are hoping for a lucky bounce or for the other team to botch the recovery.

I still feel, with no evidence, that a good tactic would be to just try to kick right at one of the up-men and recover it after it bounces off them.

Obviously it auto-fails if they catch it instead (or you miss and it turns into a line drive kick that dies at like the 30) but...

I think that requires a level of precision that very few people are capable of, and if they are, for the ball to bounce off them in a way that doesn't just drop at their feet is luck-based anyway. Plus as you said if you miss then you have no chance of recovery.

You're probably right.

still want to see someone try. >_>

I feel like I saw a team try it once and the guy just fell on it because it hit him and just dropped to the ground.

Could be my imagination though!

Re: Onside Kicks

NFL could just do what the USFL did and have 4th down conversions following scores. Have it be a 4th and long. Convert and keep the ball. Fail, and the opponent gets the ball.

Safer. More Dramatic. Requires more creativity.

How would you get rid of onside kicks? Theyre not like special options you select to try. Theyre just exploits of the normal rules

I guess you could make it 20 yards until the kicking team can recover the ball?

If you truly wanted to eliminate them, you could add the stipulation that the kicking team can not be the first team to possess the ball after the kick. Probably want to put a pre-emptive patch in that if a kick recovery is muffed then the ball can not advance beyond the point of the muff for the receiving team to avoid players trying to take advantage by positioning themselves so the ball bounces off them and gain yardage. Kind of a reverse of how on punts the kicking team will let the ball roll if it's advantageous to them.

So the only way the kicking team could gain possession on a kickoff would be if the receiving team fumbles rather than simply making contact with the ball.

The scoring team has to make a 60 yard kick in order to keep the ball

The Ravens would never have to play defense

Rhule going to Nebraska.

"They're about to end that man's career".

Honestly, Rhule will probably be fine in Nebraska. He may just be one of those "better in college" type of coaches.

Rhule rebuilt Temple and Baylor. I think he'll be fine at Nebraska.

And if he's not, some other down on their luck program will give him a shot.

I'm not sure it's possible for anyone to be fine at Nebraska. Well, unless the goal is merely to make a bowl game or something.

For now, that'll have to be their definition of fine, and he can do that much.

There were rumors that Ja'Marr Chase might play against the Titans, but now he's not expected to play.

And yet the Titans are still getting disrespected by Vegas by being a 3 point home underdog.

Alert: Peterman sighting

Trevor Siemian hurt himself in warmups so the one and only Nathan Peterman will be the starting QB for the Bears today

If the Jets lose this game they are truly cursed

it depends which version of the legend of mike white arrives today

i mean it shouldn't, but it will

https://twitter.com/SouthBeachCody/status/1596918238197477376

Snyder gonna Snyder

As if the Sean Taylor jersey retirement last year wasn't embarrassing enough. It makes me think Dan Snyder secretly hated him.

Only the first drive but it seems like Chapter 1 of The Legend has arrived.

aka "Mike White is Canton-bound"

Siemian starting after all

MysteriousStan posted...

Siemian starting after all

The Bears realized injured Siemian is better than fully healthy Peterman

Chris Godwin with one of the most beautiful spin moves you will see for a td tbh

MysteriousStan posted...

Siemian starting after all

We were LIED to

We can already see the difference in accuracy between Siemian and Fields, too.

Jets Special Teams carrying that momentum from last week still.

Damn, non contact injury for the Bears on that Jets TD (and basically the reason why it was a TD). Hate to see it happen that way,

Burks on the spot to save the TD after Henry fumbled

Legatron hitting a 57-yarder in the rain that might have been good from 67

Zuerlein just hit from 57 to end the half and it'd probably have been good from like 63.

I had a weird feeling about Jags/Ravens and that feeling has been justified so far

Meanwhile Denver misses a field goal to end the half why not

Tennessee too!

Crescent-Moon posted...

Meanwhile Denver misses a field goal to end the half why not

And so do the Titans

Although we are playing with a backup kicker today

need the dolphins to sit the offensive starters in the 2nd half.

they are single-handedly going to hit this over and kill me on ladder

https://twitter.com/LeBatardShow/status/1596949716943613953

what

UltimaterializerX posted...

How many times can we watch the Ravens suck for 3 quarters before winning and still pretend they're good?

is it better or worse than the first half of the season where they were good for three quarters and blew it in the 4th quarter

Russell Wilson might actually be a worse QB than everyone on Carolina's roster.

It's staggering.

Is Wilson's year this year the most legacy ruining year we've seen for a QB? I get his last few years in Seattle weren't exactly lighting the world on fire but man.

Aaron Rodgers would be offended if he wasnt at least in on that conversation.

Mike White: 18/23, 259 yards, 3TD

I just hit the bonus in ladder! Easy <3

Quick let's make Wilson the QB with the lowest TDs on the roster.

Rodgers is having a bad season and it's still not as bad as the one Russ is having

if he keeps playing like this for the entirety of his run with Denver it'll have people questioning whether or not he should be a Hall of Famer and that felt pretty secure before the trade

The weird thing about Mike White is that objectively his numbers are great but man he's made some throws I want to cringe at and were right out of the "There's a reason Zach Wilson was the starter" chapter of the legend. Bears dropped an INT that might have been a pick-six early. A few others look like they could have been intercepted if the Bears secondary wasn't basically reduced to walk-ons.

But I mean Wilson makes those too so maybe it doesn't matter. Though I don't think you can put Wilson back in after this game so Wilson has to hope this is like before with White where he's a Hall of Famer in his first start and then immediately shows you why he wasn't the starter in the following ones.

Wilson changed teams and promptly stopped knowing how to play football. He keeps playing like this and it's the team/coach that gets credit for his success in Seattle.

He's got no shot at the HOF is this year is what his Denver career will look like in a nutshell.

Eh, there were signs he was starting to slip the last couple seasons in Seattle, which corresponded with a drop in how often he ran.

To call this just a "drop" from his late years in Seattle would be very generous.

Well, I'm saying he was a top 5 PFF QB three seasons ago. He had declined the last couple years and then dropped dramatically this year.

Thorn posted...

The weird thing about Mike White is that objectively his numbers are great but man he's made some throws I want to cringe at and were right out of the "There's a reason Zach Wilson was the starter" chapter of the legend. Bears dropped an INT that might have been a pick-six early. A few others look like they could have been intercepted if the Bears secondary wasn't basically reduced to walk-ons.

But I mean Wilson makes those too so maybe it doesn't matter. Though I don't think you can put Wilson back in after this game so Wilson has to hope this is like before with White where he's a Hall of Famer in his first start and then immediately shows you why he wasn't the starter in the following ones.

He's had one legitimately bad decision this game. Wilson should've been picked at least 3 times last game. (And 2 others had a chance to be picked)

The overall accuracy on the throws has he's making been remarkably better than Wilson.

Crescent-Moon posted...

He's had one legitimately bad decision this game. Wilson should've been picked at least 3 times last game.

The overall accuracy on the throws has he's making been remarkably better than Wilson.

Oh, White in this game has been unquestionably better than Wilson has been basically his whole career. No doubt.

But that was also true in White's first start against the Bengals and then he basically played at-or-below Wilson after that so I'm not drawing any conclusions for even the intermediate term here. Mike White has absolutely earned another start next week but I'm internally bracing for the regression again.