Current Events > Helena Taylor speaks out on not voicing Bayonetta in Bayo 3.

(+) Yeah! (+)

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

For 2 hours of work?

Hmm maybe I'll wait for a used copy

Y'all: wow what the fuck they got rid of David Hayter as Solid Snake! Justice for David Hayter!!! Voice actor rights!!

Also y'all: How dare this VA refuse to voice an entire game for four thousand dollars! It's only two hours of work! Seriously, how greedy can you get? I'm glad they were replaced, fuck them.

We saw it with John DiMaggio trying to get a union wage to portray Bender again, which everyone on that cast should be getting - instead, the narrative shifted to DiMaggio being selfish and "above" the rest of the cast, instead of the cast not being paid what they were worth. There was a post a while back about a VA getting underpaid thousands of dollars by Crunchyroll, and some clown said that they deserved it for being a dub VA. And now some of you clods are coming after the voice of Bayonetta for being offered a pittance of what she's worth.

VAs perform. It takes work, effort and talent to get a good voice performance. It is strenuous work when you're voicing a video game character, because it isn't just going "we gotta get the bubgus to the dungus!", it's cutscene dialogue and in-game dialogue, grunts and calls and taunts. There is more VA work than you maybe realise that goes into making a character like Bayonetta come to life.

VA work isn't like the Lisa Lionheart episode of the Simpsons where Krusty phones in some lines for a talking doll:

https://youtu.be/Fr9RYgIun9A

It's a job. It requires talent and effort, and it should be fairly compensated.

If you want to call her a selfish bitch for not taking a couple of grand for four weeks worth of work portraying a character worth millions of dollars, you should play games without voice work in them for a while. Maybe you'll appreciate what these actors bring to the table.

I feel like the whole story isnt being presented here. I dont doubt what shes saying but as presented the story doesnt make a lot of sense. Feels like theres some sort of behind the scenes weirdness going on platinums end and I wonder if we will ever get any idea of what it was

MrMallard posted...

Y'all: wow what the fuck they got rid of David Hayter as Solid Snake! Justice for David Hayter!!! Voice actor rights!!

Also y'all: How dare this VA refuse to voice an entire game for four thousand dollars! It's only two hours of work! Seriously, how greedy can you get? I'm glad they were replaced, fuck them.

We saw it with John DiMaggio trying to get a union wage to portray Bender again, which everyone on that cast should be getting - instead, the narrative shifted to DiMaggio being selfish and "above" the rest of the cast, instead of the cast not being paid what they were worth. There was a post a while back about a VA getting underpaid thousands of dollars by Crunchyroll, and some clown said that they deserved it for being a dub VA. And now some of you clods are coming after the voice of Bayonetta for being offered a pittance of what she's worth.

VAs perform. It takes work, effort and talent to get a good voice performance. It is strenuous work when you're voicing a video game character, because it isn't just going "we gotta get the bubgus to the dungus!", it's cutscene dialogue and in-game dialogue, grunts and calls and taunts. There is more VA work than you maybe realise that goes into making a character like Bayonetta come to life.

VA work isn't like the Lisa Lionheart episode of the Simpsons where Krusty phones in some lines for a talking doll:

https://youtu.be/Fr9RYgIun9A

It's a job. It requires talent and effort, and it should be fairly compensated.

If you want to call her a selfish bitch for not taking a couple of grand for four weeks worth of work portraying a character worth millions of dollars, you should play games without voice work in them for a while. Maybe you'll appreciate what these actors bring to the table.

It's almost like people aren't a hivemind and you will get different opinions.

amdo posted...

For 2 hours of work?

You get paid for the hours worked, not the final content ingame.

epik_fail1 posted...

It's almost like people aren't a hivemind and you will get different opinions.

Sure. I just think it would be nice if people were compassionate towards professionals doing their jobs and getting fair compensation for their work, instead of calling them selfish and lazy for it. With how many times it's happened, it feels like a backlash against voice actors - people wanting all the perks of their labor without having to deal with the hard stuff like fair pay and thinking about voicework as a job.

People are gonna have different opinions, but maybe some people should get a clue instead of just going "they just show up and say stuff!". It's pretty easy to not be a moron.

Tyranthraxus posted...

If anything Nintendo would have worked to get her back like they got Hayter to do Smash Ultimate.

David Hayter did not "do" Smash Ultimate. They used archive recordings from Brawl.

Tbh, I'm not sure what boycotting would even do for this. Bayo games don't sell much to begin with. 2 and 3 basically exist because Nintendo threw Platinum a bone. They're not gonna feel a burn from any of this.

The issue isn't whether $4000 is a fair wage. It's not. If you think it was offered for any other reason than to get her to reject it, you're wrong.

The question is why they didn't want her back. It can't solely be a money issue because as everyone has already said, there's no way Hale did it for that.

But they didn't even lowball her any amount that any VA, especially one who has already given an iconic performance as the character, would accept. Or perhaps they were simply hoping because of her circumstances she really would take that amount, but the fact that they set it at $4000 and refused to budge shows they simply didn't want her.

Whether they didn't want her because of something she did or because they just wanted a more well known voice actor is really the only question here. If the latter, the deserve all the flak they get.

Personally, I think the former, but the fact that people think she was given that offer in good faith is ridiculous.

VampireCoyote posted...

she isnt acting like that

Yes she is.

I'm still conflicted about this. She has a point, but it's freaking Platinum Games... They aren't swimming in dough.

Shame on this whole mess.

NostraL0r3 posted...

I'm still conflicted about this. She has a point, but it's freaking Platinum Games... They aren't swimming in dough.

Shame on this whole mess.

"They're not swimming in dough"

*hires someone who is most likely the highest paid female VA in gaming*

Hmm

Edit: they're also backed by Nintendo.

ArchNemo posted...

"They're not swimming in dough"

*hires someone who is most likely the highest paid VA in gaming*

Hmm

Well do we know how much Hale got paid? No one has those numbers, yet.

Nintendo only provides publishing and advertising costs. In house dev/voice actors are on Platinum's dime.

NostraL0r3 posted...

I'm still conflicted about this. She has a point, but it's freaking Platinum Games... They aren't swimming in dough.

I have a hunch that Jennifer Hale has a higher standard rate on account of being one of the most in demand female VAs out there.

Definitely curious to see if the story develops further, it's a weird situation. Feel bad for Taylor but her sort of trashing Hale in her videos isn't a great look.

NostraL0r3 posted...

Well do we know how much Hale got paid? No one has those numbers, yet.

No, we likely never will, but I'd bet dollars to dogshit it's more than $4000.

ArchNemo posted...

No, we likely never will, but I'd bet dollars to dogshit it's more than $4000.

If so, then something smells foul in Denmark. This is like the Hayter/Southerland situation. I guess Platinum wanted a bigger name.

NostraL0r3 posted...

If so, then something smells foul in Denmark. This is like the Hayter/Southerland situation. I guess Platinum wanted a bigger name.

That doesn't really make sense either though. They replaced Hayter with a movie/TV star who would be recognizable to the general public. Jennifer Hale is a well known VA, which as people have pointed out still doesn't make her very well known at all to the majority of people. I doubt even the majority of gamers know who voices characters they like in any given game, and if they do, they'd probably prefer the original.

Let's be real though, at the end of the day nobody is saying "Holy shit, Jennifer Hale is a voice in this? Day one buy"

CyricZ posted...

David Hayter did not "do" Smash Ultimate. They used archive recordings from Brawl.

They still paid him for it even if he didn't do any work.

i would have done it for $3950

ArchNemo posted...

That doesn't really make sense either though. They replaced Hayter with a movie/TV star who would be recognizable to the general public. Jennifer Hale is a well known VA, which as people have pointed out still doesn't make her very well known at all to the majority of people. I doubt even the majority of gamers know who voices characters they like in any given game, and if they do, they'd probably prefer the original.

Let's be real though, at the end of the day nobody is saying "Holy shit, Jennifer Hale is a voice in this? Day one buy"

I disagree. Jennifer Hale is probably the only VA in the biz who could boost sales on her name alone. She's that damn popular. Heck, people ranked fem shep as canon shep over male shep, just because Hale was the voice.

NostraL0r3 posted...

I disagree. Jennifer Hale is probably the only VA in the biz who could boost sales on her name alone. She's that damn popular. Heck, people ranked fem shep as canon shep over male shep, just because Hale was the voice.

Wait, people ranked Hale, who had been doing VA work since the 90's over a guy who had never voiced a game prior to Mass Effect? Well shit, consider me humbled and your argument proven.

NostraL0r3 posted...

Heck, people ranked fem shep as canon shep over male shep, just because Hale was the voice.

Lol wut

ArchNemo posted...

Wait, people ranked Hale, who had been doing VA work since the 90's over a guy who had never voiced a game prior to Mass Effect? Well shit, consider me humbled and your argument proven.

I'm just making a point. No need to be snarky about it.

I mean, the fact the Hale is the center of this controversy shows how marketable she is. If it had been someone else, no one would care.

CM_Ponch posted...

Lol wut

They did though.

NostraL0r3 posted...

I'm just making a point. No need to be snarky about it.

Honestly, I was gonna edit my post and comment that I dunno why I chose to go that route with my comment >_> it was kinda shitty of me.

ArchNemo posted...

Honestly, I was gonna edit my post and comment that I dunno why I chose to go that route with my comment >_> it was kinda shitty of me.

It's all good, man. This situation is very sad, and may spell the end for the franchise. It's leaving a bitter taste in everyone's mouth.

NostraL0r3 posted...

This situation is very sad, and may spell the end for the franchise.

How big a deal is that really though, they've already got 3 games. How many do we need really

Eramir posted...

Messed up the game will make millions but they only offer her a pittance

Ehhh again... the games dont generally sell well

They obviously wanted her out. No need to boycott over this.

NostraL0r3 posted...

I'm still conflicted about this. She has a point, but it's freaking Platinum Games... They aren't swimming in dough.

Shame on this whole mess.

Nintendo however is drowning in cash, and they're the ones funding the game

A shame, but Platinum seems to be swirling the drain these days anyway. Babylon's Fall wasn't a great look and Bayo 3 has taken forever

Gwynevere posted...

A shame, but Platinum seems to be swirling the drain these days anyway. Babylon's Fall wasn't a great look and Bayo 3 has taken forever

They are doubling down on this live service shit even after Babylon's Flop

Tyranthraxus posted...

They are doubling down on this live service shit even after Babylon's Flop

Babylon's *is* the double-down. They've been trying it for over a decade with stuff like Scalebound and several unnamed games that haven't seen the light of day. Babylon's Fall is just the one that finally got finished.

SSJKirby posted...

Nintendo however is drowning in cash, and they're the ones funding the game

As mentioned before, Nintendo only pays for a certain things like publishing. They just can't like pay Taylor directly. I guess they do have the power to delay the game or something but I don't think that would actually do anything to alleviate the issue.

Rharyx211 posted...

A Mon-Fri regular degular job is different from being a voice actor where you're basically working freelance -- you technically have no job at all unless you're currently working on a project; hence a lot of actors having second jobs as bartenders or waiters or whatever. A video game might be your only gig that whole month, so you'd expect it to pay enough to get you through the month. *Especially* if you're the lead character.

But on a more real note, $4000 is less than some actors make for doing a single advertisement or commercial *for* a video game. Being the lead character *of* a video game, and having multiple sessions over the span of days to weeks, for only that amount is ridiculous.

And I'm sure rent in California is high, so combined with other necessities like food and gas, $4000 is barely enough to get you through a single month's rent. It's insulting. $4000 is not a lot as an adult.

This is nonsense. I literally live in California in a major city. 4000 dollars a MONTH is plenty. I am objectively (lower) middle class.

Ivany2008 posted...

But is it more than people who have an acquired skill they went to college/university for? Probably not. With my IT degree I'm slated to start off at 50k CAD once my student semester ends. She's been in the industry for at least 12 years, so at the very least she should be making 60-70k/y from that. Voice lines aren't just in and out for a day. I wouldn't be surprised if it took a couple months including redos for her to finish a video game voice over.

Voice overs don't just go in for a couple days and they are done. Sometimes directors want to try different tones out, different voices, etc. For 4,000 dollars its an insult, because many of this requires travel, and if not travel then special equipment which can be expensive.

Im not really saying she shouldnt be paid more. Im just saying 4000 for what is DEFINITELY less than a full month of work is actually not that bad. People are acting like its a pittance. Its literally more than I make at a tech job in California.

It's really bizarre how people act like actors don't (or shouldn't) get paid more when they've established a character to the point where their absence is missed if recast. Taylor's performance is a large part of Bayonetta's character and what helps her stand out.

My theory is she used 3 as an opportunity to try and negotiate for residuals (which is ultimately what actors want long term) and Platinum lowballed her to tell her to get lost.

Zonbei posted...

This is nonsense. I literally live in California in a major city. 4000 dollars a MONTH is plenty. I am objectively (lower) middle class.

Uh what part of California do you live in? My rent is $3300 a month.

The suggestion I've seen on reddit - and I do not know how true this is - is that it might partly be a cultural issue. For whatever reason, they didn't want to hire Taylor for the third game. In Japan, so it's claimed, the respectable way to deal with the situation isn't to just fire the person, it's to do what they did here: offer them a paltry amount of money which they'll turn down. The company doesn't keep an employee they don't want, the employee doesn't have the "shame" of being fired.

Obviously, in America, that's just considered insulting.

Frosted_Midna posted...

I prefer old voice actor!

I prefer old Big Mac burger!

pegusus123456 posted...

The suggestion I've seen on reddit - and I do not know how true this is - is that it might partly be a cultural issue. For whatever reason, they didn't want to hire Taylor for the third game. In Japan, so it's claimed, the respectable way to deal with the situation isn't to just fire the person, it's to do what they did here: offer them a paltry amount of money which they'll turn down. The company doesn't keep an employee they don't want, the employee doesn't have the "shame" of being fired.

Obviously, in America, that's just considered insulting.

japans corporate culture is bullshit and makes the USA seem like disneyland in comparison

How much do voice actors usually get for a gig like this? How much did she get for the previous games?

voldothegr8 posted...

How much do voice actors usually get for a gig like this? How much did she get for the previous games?

It varies from actor to actor, project to project, but the typical union rate is appx $1000 for a 4 hour session. (Non-union is $250 an hour with a two hour minimum.) So unless she could've done the whole game in just 16 hours (she couldn't), they're severely underpaying her.

No idea about what she was paid for previous games, though.

Are there no royalties either? I mean $4000 for the session + royalties might be fair, given how much the franchise has made

No, video games don't give out royalties. There was a strike a couple years ago to get royalties secured for actors (among other things), and every video game company refused.

That's why voice actors do conventions and signings and stuff, to make the money that they should be getting from royalties.

Oh then yeah that's really shitty

Yeah, for the most part actors who do voice over work for games (and especially for anime) are doing it almost solely out of love for the medium, not because they think it's a good way to make money. Cuz it's not.

Not sure if it's been brought up in this topic before, but the actors who dubbed the Jujutsu Kaisen 0 movie only got like $150~$300 for the whole thing. And that movie made millions.