Current Events > Helena Taylor speaks out on not voicing Bayonetta in Bayo 3.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Zonbei posted...

why are VAs so special

Telling you guys. Here's the centerpoint.

"Actors ain't worth."

Zonbei posted...

Correct. But when I pay my plumber, I dont pay them a FULL YEARS WAGES just in case they dont get another job for 9 months. Which is what was being argued here. Do you see my point? The plumber does the job and then they are responsible for finding another job. But apparently VAs need to be paid insane amounts because they might not get a job for 9 months. What kind of argument is that?

4000 for 16 hours was already 100 times more than I make, and at no point did I say they should make less. I was already taking into account the nature of their work.

There's two different angles to this you are getting muddled up on.

4,000 is standard VA work. That's also around the figure you could be paying for many different contractors.

People being paid 'insane rates' isn't because they don't have work for 9 months. It's because they 'specifically' bring in a large amount of money and can negotiate to get paid in 'insane rates'

There are countless examples of this in media. There is no comparison for this when it comes to a plumber. You're not making a profit from the plumbing they fixed years from now.

DrizztLink posted...

Because the comparative value of their labor versus the money that is gained off of it is different than that of a plumber.

Okay but its its not or the union would be saying.. that they needed the insane amount being proposed here? Where are you people getting the idea they need to literally be paid enough to make up for not finding work for 9 months?

Punished_Blinx posted...

There's two different angles to this you are getting muddled up on.

4,000 is standard VA work. That's also around the figure you could be paying for many different contractors.

People being paid 'insane rates' isn't because they don't have work for 9 months. It's because they 'specifically' bring in a large amount of money and can negotiate to get paid in 'insane rates'

There are countless examples of this in media. There is no comparison for this when it comes to a plumber. You're not making a profit from the plumbing they fixed years from now.

I have had no problem with people who get paid insane rates. I had a problem with the idea this particular person clearly DESERVED to get paid EVEN MORE than the rate thats ALREADY 100 times more than I make an hour (which is fine due to the nature of their work), because she might not work for 9 months.

This is why I keep asking you guys what youre even arguing with me about.

CyricZ posted...

Telling you guys. Here's the centerpoint.

"Actors ain't worth."

I mean if your point here is actors are worth more than everyone else I can see why youd think thats my point. But theyre not worth anything certainly isnt. Again, industry standard is 100 times more than I make in a finance job in tech, in California, and at no point did I say I have any real problem with that. Just a problem with people acting like its somehow chump change.

Zonbei posted...

I had a problem with the idea this particular person clearly DESERVED to get paid EVEN MORE than the rate thats ALREADY 100 times more than I make an hour (which is fine due to the nature of their work), because she might not work for 9 months.

Who specifically said this?

She deserved to be paid 100 times more than you make in an hour because of the value she gives to the project as a returning long time protagonist. Her work outside of Bayonetta is irrelevant to the discussion.

Or is the '100 times you make in an hour' the $4,000 per hour quote? In that case she's being paid more for her expertise in this field as a contractor and is no different than most people who work like this.

Zonbei posted...

Okay but its its not

Do you routinely make hundreds of millions of dollars off of selling access to your working toilet?

Because that's where your comparison shits itself.

Punished_Blinx posted...

Who specifically said this?

She deserved to be paid 100 times more than you make in an hour because of the value she gives to the project as a returning long time protagonist. Her work outside of Bayonetta is irrelevant to the discussion.

I was literally the one saying her work outside bayonetta is irrelevant to the discussion. I dont have any issue with her being paid 100 times more. (Which was her original claim, not the truth which turned out to be roughly 400 times more.) I dont remember exactly who said it, but probably Cyric. Ill go take a look.

CyricZ posted...

"Make acting work appear you lazy person"

This is the core of your argument: what appears to be a complete callousness towards acting as a craft. The difficulty in landing roles, the rarity of roles that pay well enough, and the stress that comes with not knowing where your next paycheck is coming from.

"But 4000 is a big number!" you say to someone who might only be seeing that amount for months.

"Oh well guess it's not my problem the industry is a desert" you continue to say long after anyone is tired of your garbage.

And then to top it off by pretending like today's revelation is your victory. What utter cheek.

it was in fact Cyric. And I think to a lesser extent Drizzt.

DrizztLink posted...

Do you routinely make hundreds of millions of dollars off of selling access to your working toilet?

Because that's where your comparison shits itself.

But now youre arguing about residuals. Not that 4000 for 16 hours is a standard industry wage. Which it is. At no point have I said a single word about residuals or whether I think VAs should get them.

Zonbei posted...

it was in fact Cyric. And I think to a lesser extent Drizzt.

So the $4,000 figure.

Which is nothing crazy large for contract work even outside of VA. Which would be remarkably low for a protagonist (which turns out even Platinum agreed).

Punished_Blinx posted...

So the $4,000 figure.

Which is nothing unreasonable for contract work even outside of VA.

Again. That was. My point. I feel like you are wildly confused? I was saying the 4000 figure was normal and standard? I didnt have any problem with it? My literal only issue was people acting like it was chump change because they might not find any more work for months. That and the fact her story didnt add up (which makes sense given she was lying.)

Zonbei posted...

Again. That was. My point. I feel like you are wildly confused? I was saying the 4000 figure was normal and standard? I didnt have any problem with it? My literal only issue was people acting like it was chump change and lowballing. That and the fact her story didnt add up (which makes sense given she was lying.)

It was chump change and lowballing for a protagonist role like this. Which is why whining about your pay in comparison was silly. It wasn't a standard VA role. The 4k offered was for a cameo and not the full work.

So you're still undervaluing the work of a VA regardless.

Punished_Blinx posted...

It was chump change and lowballing for a protagonist role like this. Which is why whining about your pay in comparison was silly. It wasn't a standard VA role. The 4k offered was for a cameo and not the full work.

So you're still undervaluing the work of a VA regardless.

no the 4K allegedly offered, split across the same work as Bayo2, is industry standard and about 250 an hour. Absolutely not for a cameo and I dont know where youre getting that from. And then it turns out she was lying about being mad about getting offered industry standard and DID get offered way more. Which was my suspicion from the start, because it doesnt make any sense to lowball her and then hire Jennifer Hale for what is gonna be more money.

the fact you took It as me whining about my pay instead of trying to establish a baseline for how much money the 4000 offer, since everyone was acting like its nothing, is a you problem.

Gotta hand it to Cyric here, hes not backing down in spite of the revelation that took even me by surprise earlier today.

As much as I scoffed at him yesterday when he claimed to stand for his values in the face of scrutiny, for better or worse, hes made a believer out of me. Good job!

DeadBankerDream posted...

"never admit you're wrong, even when you're (probably) wrong"

Sorry, you may have mixed up my words. What I mean is, even if Helena isn't a pleasant individual, even if she follows questionable people on twitter and has nuanced political stances, even if she "conveniently" left out vital details regarding this incident in order to make herself appear as more of a victim - its easy to see things as black and white. "She doesn't deserve a payrise, therefore its not an issue!"

The issue still exists in the industry though. And Helena being currently the most vocal VA, fabricating her unfair treatment and pay, is going to damper people's perspective and outlook on such a prevalent problem in such an industry.

DarthAragorn posted...

Didn't they get fucking Jennifer Hale to replace her? Can't imagine she did it for $4000. Did they just really want her gone or what?

i would do it for $50

gaminggamer13 posted...

What I mean is, even if Helena isn't a pleasant individual, even if she follows questionable people on twitter and has nuanced political stances, even if she "conveniently" left out vital details regarding this incident in order to make herself appear as more of a victim - its easy to see things as black and white.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/7/2/AASSvUAADhmo.jpg

Zonbei posted...

no the 4K allegedly offered, split across the same work as Bayo2, is industry standard and about 250 an hour. Absolutely not for a cameo and I dont know where youre getting that from. And then it turns out she was lying about being mad about getting offered industry standard and DID get offered way more. Which was my suspicion from the start, because it doesnt make any sense to lowball her and then hire Jennifer Hale for what is gonna be more money.

the fact you took It as me whining about my pay instead of trying to establish a baseline for how much money the 4000 offer, since everyone was acting like its nothing, is a you problem.

It is nothing for the role and experience. Which you defended by saying it's more than what you get.

Turns out it was low. Because it was 4k per session not for the entire game. After Hale was cast the final offer was 4k for a single session for a cameo role.

So yes you were whining about a ridiculous lowball offer being paid more than you. Even if Hellena was telling the entire truth you were saying that was more than fair.

https://youtu.be/tCGbRPfD6U8

Punished_Blinx posted...

It is nothing for the role and experience. Which you defended by saying it's more than what you get.

Turns out it was low. Because it was 4k per session not for the entire game. After Hale was cast the final offer was 4k for a single session for a cameo role.

So yes you were whining about a ridiculous lowball offer being paid more than you. Even if Hellena was telling the entire truth you were saying that was more than fair.

Its not really a ridiculous lowball offer when its literally industry standard. The fact they offered her EVEN MORE doesnt change that. People were acting like it wasnt even a living wage. Given its nearly exactly what I make in a month, thats news to me. That was the point of me bringing it up.

Zonbei posted...

Its not really a ridiculous lowball offer when its literally industry standard.

It is when you're cast as a voice actor returning to voice protagonist in a third game in a series that can sell 1+ million copies. That isn't a standard role. How are you not getting this?

Platinum didn't offer more because they're generous. If anything the 15k is more standard and that's still overall low compared to other mediums due to the lack of residuals.

Punished_Blinx posted...

It is when you're cast as a voice actor returning to voice protagonist in a third game in a series that can sell 1+ million copies. That isn't a standard role. How are you not getting this?

Platinum didn't offer more because they're generous. If anything the 15k is more standard and that's still overall low compared to other mediums due to the lack of residuals.

So your argument here is you are wrong about it being industry standard and enough to live on because of my subjective value judgment of the worth of a particular role leading me to believe they deserve more.

Could have just said that one of the ten times I asked you what your stance actually was.

Zonbei posted...

So your argument here is you are wrong about it being industry standard and enough to live on because of my subjective value judgment of the worth of a particular role leading me to believe they deserve more.

Could have just said that one of the ten times I asked you what your stance actually was.

I have said it several different times and ways to you.

I hope one day video game voice actors are able to get the residuals they deserve for characters they helped popularize. It shouldn't just go to the companies who continue to profit from their work years later.

It's really not a complicated stance.

Punished_Blinx posted...

I have said it several different times and ways to you.

I hope one day video game voice actors are able to get the residuals they deserve for characters they helped popularize. It shouldn't just go to the companies who continue to profit from their work years later.

It's really not a complicated stance.

At literally no point did I say they shouldnt get residuals, so I continue to wonder what the fuck youre arguing with me for.

Zonbei posted...

At literally no point did I say they shouldnt get residuals, so I continue to wonder what the fuck youre arguing with me for.

I'm arguing against your position that the 4k was standard and more than fair because it's way more than what you make per hour.

The reason they aren't getting residuals is because long term they'd make more money by the way.

Punished_Blinx posted...

I'm arguing against your position that the 4k was standard and more than fair because it's way more than what you make per hour.

The reason they aren't getting residuals is because long term they'd make more money by the way.

But they should get residuals isnt an argument against 4K for 16 hours is industry standard.

My argument wasnt merely they make more than me per hour, it was they make literally as much as I do per month for less work, and it can absolutely be lived on fairly easily. An argument that existed only in contrast to shes being paid literally pennies, less than a living wage, less than standard, etc etc. any argument she should make even more than that is basically subjective and irrelevant to my point.

Does that mean I dont think they should get residuals? No. I think they should. It doesnt change the thing I said though.

and my very very original point before all this fucking side nonsense was that her original claim made zero sense whatsoever for numerous reasons. Turns out her original claim was a lie.

CRON posted...

There has to be something wrong with her if she really thinks recording several grunts is worth six figures.

Wait until you hear how much Vin Diesel gets paid for saying "I am Groot." >_>

Jupiter posted...

Wait until you hear how much Vin Diesel gets paid for saying "I am Groot." >_>

And there's a reason why some no names say the same line in the video games.

Jupiter posted...

Wait until you hear how much Vin Diesel gets paid for saying "I am Groot." >_>

If it helps, he voices him in every foreign language version as well.

Jupiter posted...

Wait until you hear how much Vin Diesel gets paid for saying "I am Groot." >_>

Pretty sure Alan Tudyk made more than 4k to be a chicken, too >_>
https://i.imgur.com/OANJVnc.gif
https://i.imgur.com/fj7swP4.gif

voldothegr8 posted...

And there's a reason why some no names say the same line in the video games.

Thinking about it I wonder if movie actors still get royalties for video game adaptations even if they don't show up lol

Does she really bring much value to the franchise or do the artists/animators bring the true value to Bayonetta?

So she actually was offered $4-5k each session, so $20k for less than a week of work

MAN SO UNDERPAID

Sexypwnstar posted...

Does she really bring much value to the franchise or do the artists/animators bring the true value to Bayonetta?

According to her and some randoms on the internet, yeah...

personally i never noticed the difference until someone mentioned it

may as well post before 500

Impressed this is still going.

Wonder what Cyric thinks of that other topic where they found out

Hayame_Zero posted...

If it helps, he voices him in every foreign language version as well.

Watashi wa Groot desu.

She will be known as a liar and a fraud until her final day

Sexypwnstar posted...

So she actually was offered $4-5k each session, so $20k for less than a week of work

MAN SO UNDERPAID

This is such a weird argument.

It's been established repeatedly that this is enormously low pay for the work and although we don't know the figure it's undeniable that her replacement is being paid signifcantly more.

Saying "Well other jobs pay worse" to attack Taylor and not to attack Capitalism is crazy.

Maze_ posted...

It's been established repeatedly that this is enormously low pay for the work

Citation needed. I haven't seen actual concrete figures ANYWHERE

One of the first things demonstrated in the topic was that Platinum paid a youtuber $7,000 for hosting a kickstarter....

Michael Hollick got 100k for GTA4 and was mad he didn't get royalities.

I feel like you're being willfully ignorant for some reason

Maze_ posted...

It's been established repeatedly that this is enormously low pay for the work and although we don't know the figure it's undeniable that her replacement is being paid signifcantly more.

this was established when people thought she'd get $4k for the entire thing, not $15k-$20k.

GTA is massively larger market wise.

Maze_ posted...

Michael Hollick got 100k for GTA4 and was mad he didn't get royalities.

Bayonetta 1+2 combined barely sold more than two million copies.

500

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/0/1/AAOChCAADw95.jpg