Board 8 > Dota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 6 - Allegedy a Team Game of Mafia

(+) Yeah! (+)

That town list is a hint. Or could be, at least. Perhaps not an immediately useful one, but Corrik's death is still unexplained. I don't think the odds are high that all five of the people on his town list are, indeed, town.

Kirby321 posted...

Did... did you not fully read my post

I read your post. You raise good points. Your conclusion is bad.

Corrik does not target without a hint. That's just period, end of story. Sorry. I know Corrik.

What I gathered from your post is this.

Corrik would not target people he thought was scum. So not Poppy, Hb, or SBell.

That doesn't mean he's strictly town clearing-- high town vibe likely wouldn't be roshan either. So he'd be more likely to go with someone not mentioned in that post at all, and leave a hint about them

IE Ulti.

Kirby321 posted...

That town list is a hint. Or could be, at least. Perhaps not an immediately useful one, but Corrik's death is still unexplained. I don't think the odds are high that all five of the people on his town list are, indeed, town.

That's an even worse hint than quoting Dr Strange though. A POE of 5 people doesn't help anything-- especially when YOU are on the town list and if you weren't cleared by the observer ward I'd say with his cult leader rant you were the hint.

##Unvote:
##Vote: Ulti

On that note.

Scum

Ulti
Red

Roshan

Poppy

Town

The rest

That's my guess atm. I will build this case today, with a focus on UltixRed scumpair making sense.

Honestly the fact that Han brought this hint up and not Lopen (who is very prone to doing this sort of thing, sometimes seeing things that arent there) is making me consider it.

but my god we will all look like absolute morons if its not correct. its a really big stretch and it doesnt feel like something we should do until weve exhausted other options

Ngl I'm scared of what Corrik has to say at the end of this game (or what he's currently saying in dead town chat)

How awkward would it be if Corrik just targeted some random fool and left no hints behind at all like we all keep thinking he did lmao

How many people would get that reference?

Ulti as scum just makes sense

Look at how he treated Hb day 1 as town, then flips to scum
Look at his literally worthless item and his weird bodyguard (easy to fake) choices (why abandon Han-- Han looks like slam dunk town if Hb flips scum)
Look at how he has played the game, trying to town confirm himself at every end. Why do we even know Ulti is bodyguard-- what did it do besides get his claim out before mass and make him look better?
Look at how Red was open to investigating the Corrik thread yesterday, then is trying to say "Lopen is bad at the game and scum" today when I'm saying we should look at Ulti-- but was happy to go along with it when I was tunneled on Poppy

Corrik is probably happy I'm looking into his target but shouting at me for not thinking it was Ulti until today.

The idea that was a random on a list of 5 is bad.

ctesjbuvf posted...

How many people would get that reference?

You just need one person who was here in MCU Mafia to get it and would be searching for hints.

Also for the record even if you don't believe in hints, Corrik targeting Ulti from a Roshan hunting perspective is a good angle too-- I was calling Ulti Roshan all day day 1.

Lopen posted...

Also for the record even if you don't believe in hints, Corrik targeting Ulti from a Roshan hunting perspective is a good angle too-- I was calling Ulti Roshan all day day 1.

My issue with this is that nobody else was really talking about Roshan besides you and Corrik on Day 1. Because there really wasn't a reason to believe a third-party existed until Corrik flipped.

... So why would you have a reason to even know Roshan existed? I'm starting to believe the argument that you are, indeed, Roshan.

I mean yes, but it's a better reference if more than one person would get it. I'd say you'd need a couple more to not risk having the people supposed to get it die.

ctesjbuvf posted...

The idea that was a random on a list of 5 is bad.

If that's the hint we kill Kirby due to his cult leader rant, so the idea that he breadcrumbed his target in that list is really bad

The only reason we don't kill Kirby regardless is because Death said Kirby wasn't visited

Lopen posted...

Corrik is probably happy I'm looking into his target but shouting at me for not thinking it was Ulti until today.

Somebody screenshot this and save it for the afterparty. I'm mad curious to see how poorly this ages lmao

Kirby321 posted...

My issue with this is that nobody else was really talking about Roshan besides you and Corrik on Day 1. Because there really wasn't a reason to believe a third-party existed until Corrik flipped.

... So why would you have a reason to even know Roshan existed? I'm starting to believe the argument that you are, indeed, Roshan.

Last game I was in, I replaced out early

Early game I was thinking Chris was coming off as trying to keep himself alive more than win the game

Chris won as third party as I said to Han "Chris better not win as third party" at N1.

So I'm saying from now on if I think someone is playing like third party, I'm going to call them on it.

I have somewhat of an idea to at least throw a mild test Ulti's way tonight.

We know Ulti says he bought a healing salve from the shop. We didn't even know that that item would do anything until Death died, and now that he's gone, it appears to be a useless item. Bodyguard is a night action, so Ulti's day action should be free.

I propose that Ulti should be made to send this salve to someone else during the day as a code for who he's going to protect tonight as bodyguard. If his target doesn't make sense, or if scum kills that target, we can then be appropriately suspicious of Ulti's claim.

And the code would just be like a simple code shift or something, like whoever he sends it to is the person on the player list immediately before the person he intends to protect. That way it doesn't alert the game at large.

We can also exclude any players from this code who aren't viable targets / too suspicious to try and keep scum from learning his BG target if he is in fact BG.

Lopen posted...

If that's the hint we kill Kirby due to his cult leader rant, so the idea that he breadcrumbed his target in that list is really bad

That makes zero sense.

Corrik was rambling about how my role had flaws in it or that I was third party or some other nonsense... and then his ultimate conclusion is that I'm Town?! You said yourself that I'm on Corrik's town list. How does his sudden change in opinion make any sense?

The answer? Don't forget Corrik had a day scan. The fact that he did a complete 180 on me is indicative that he scanned me and discovered that I wasn't Roshan.

I like changmas's plan. I don't think it's foolproof, but I like the idea of Ulti telegraphing his target to hold him accountable for his claim.

There is an immediate problem with the endgame hint idea and that is that hb was scum in that game too(with corrik and without tabbing back over on my phone i think scare).

Kirby321 posted...

The answer? Don't forget Corrik had a day scan. The fact that he did a complete 180 on me is indicative that he scanned me and discovered that I wasn't Roshan.

Yes

So why would he leave you in his list that is supposedly a hint when you absolutely aren't his target and are an obvious person to look for if you're looking for Corrik hints.

The better idea, and if you doubt it's Corrik's hint to quote Dr Strange, just look at Ulti's play where he keeps telling us a bunch of worthless information to make himself look better and nothing else and lynch him for that instead.

Leafeon13N posted...

There is an immediate problem with the endgame hint idea and that is that hb was scum in that game too(with corrik and without tabbing back over on my phone i think scare).

Ulti is Thanos in that game

Hb is a forgetable schmuck in that game that no one even remembered was scum, and in that scum list as well

Don't be dumb

changmas posted...

So i just went back and counted all the votes on Sultan and HB and here's the only two players that haven't been on either lynch.

2 - ctesjbuvf
10 - red13n

So if we assume the auto-hammerer can't double vote (feels like that might be too strong), it must be one of these two, with certainty. I guess it's also worth discussing whether an auto-hammerer could be a town role. But one of these two is it.

Any thoughts, Red the Hammerer?

Can I get reminded why Roshan specifically was even brought up to begin with? It makes sense after Corrik's flip, but on d1?

Roshan is the overpowered neutral creep that makes sense to be third party

Also Han was stunned day 1-- Roshan flings out stuns. Stun to me just made sense as a third party ability more than a town or scum one.

Corrik brought it up because 1. it's a huge part of his role and 2. he did some mumbo-jumbo with the wording of Isquen's initial post to suggest it implied other parties besides radiant and dire existed

Lopen posted...

Yes

So why would he leave you in his list that is supposedly a hint when you absolutely aren't his target and are an obvious person to look for if you're looking for Corrik hints.

The better idea, and if you doubt it's Corrik's hint to quote Dr Strange, just look at Ulti's play where he keeps telling us a bunch of worthless information to make himself look better and nothing else and lynch him for that instead.

... Because we're not morons? Or maybe it's because Corrik has absolutely zero faith in us that he put me in his town list just to make sure yinz aren't lynching low hanging fruit or whatever in case he dies.

Nonetheless, I agree that Ulti's bodyguard claim came out of nowhere when he first made the claim. But otherwise, I don't his play has been that self-preservationist.

Then again, I'm just now discovering how easy it is to do ISOs with the forbidden website that shall not be named. Currently doing an ISO on Red, but I'll add Ulti to my list shortly.

When is that MCU game from? Tried to find it in the logs

Lopen posted...

Ulti is Thanos in that game

Hb is a forgetable schmuck in that game that no one even remembered was scum, and in that scum list as well

Don't be dumb

But its not even a thanos quote.

Like I'll put it another way

If there is a third party in the setup it has to be Roshan

Radiant/Dire split doesn't work (and doesn't exist) and there is no other thing that would make sense to be against everyone. DotA lore is a bunch of nothing anyway.

Why I said Ulti came off as third party like instead of scum like is he was trying very hard to attach himself to town claims in some way to confirm himself.

Leafeon13N posted...

But its not even a thanos quote.

It's a quote made in the context of stopping Thanos

Dr Strange turns to dust if he targets Thanos and Thanos is scum. Dr Strange did turn to dust.

oh fuck, ulti is getting stunned today isn't he. if we want to do either of our plans (4 votes on red to test hammerer) or my ulti telegraphs his BG target plan we need to do them today.

it seems that the stun doesn't go into effect until fairly late into the 48 hours, so i think we have some time to put this stuff in motion before everything gets messed up by that

we need to do them today (like IRL today)*

Kirby321 posted...

But otherwise, I don't his play has been that self-preservationist.

Mentioned BG for no reason
Mentioned Lea being confirmed because he had a detector (why can't Lea be scum ninja)
Mentioned his item being a ward and confirming you because you had a ward (so? You can both have wards)

There is a recurring theme where Ulti is trying to tie himself to town things in this game for no particular pro-town effect.

Note how Red went from this by the way

Assuming Corrik would leave a hint about his target
Potentially humoring Poppy
Completely dropping the Corrik thread and saying I'm scum
Trying to argue that "We're in the Endgame now" is not a good hint for targeting Ulti

This is Red realizing when Ulti flips scum his days are numbered and just throwing everything at it. This is not someone with a problem solving thought process as it relates to Corrik's role.

We're not hammer testing. Well I know I can't stop you but plan sounds horrible.

Ulti did mention that he didn't know Lea's alignment.

Red ISO hasn't given me anything very useful about Red himself. He mostly made comments about the Miller claims and seemed to call out Poppy for things. Also said that Ctes hasn't been reading the game (though that was in a very early topic).

The most interesting thing is noting that Red is also aboard the "Corrik definitely left a hint" train.

red13n posted...

Also in my quick skim this shit stuck out of me. To paraphrase what corrik would say, he would absolutely call us the equivalent of fucking morons and that he made his target obvious as hell and we're all stupid and trying to lose by not believing him when the answer was obvious.

I did a brief skim before dying yesterday and his target wasn't -obvious- but this is probably me missing something and other people are probably on point about his target. Hes not going to leave nothing. He was around deadline but didnt say anything so his vote being best guess is -probably- right. But hider variants aren't new, he knows he has to leave something.

Another thing is that Red discouraged Death from full-claiming. Kinda peculiar, but he said not to claim because it would keep scum guessing (which is odd because scum clearly stole Death's role and knew exactly how it would work). Not that it matters since Death got blown up anyway.

Red was also defended me pretty heavily, asserting to Ctes that Hb's interactions with me (especially with trying to paint me as third-party) don't make any sense at all.

Overall... inconclusive. I don't think Red has done much this game, but he has certainly made his opinions clear. Like thinking Lopen is the least towny person here (which isn't a stretch tbh).

Next up, Ulti!

Lopen posted...

Mentioned BG for no reason
Mentioned Lea being confirmed because he had a detector (why can't Lea be scum ninja)
Mentioned his item being a ward and confirming you because you had a ward (so? You can both have wards)

There is a recurring theme where Ulti is trying to tie himself to town things in this game for no particular pro-town effect.

Tbf on that last point, Ulti thought I was lying because his item supposedly couldn't coexist with mine.

... Which is actually kinda weird because that wasn't the case at all? And thus far no roles have appeared that would necessitate the existence of a sentry ward.

Hmm... you might be on to something here. But let me do my ISO first.

UltimaterializerX posted...

I am thoroughly on board with privately showing my hand with a healing salve. I just submitted the action.

The person who gets it is absolutely who I will protect tonight. Scum has no blocker and cannot stop me, so that person better shut the F up when they get the message.

just to confirm so we don't get this mixed up at all, you sent the salve directly to the person who will be protected?

if so, cool. that works too.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Lopen spent all day trying to keep HB alive, and he was kept alive by Death being an absolute idiot with his role. He frankly better be scum, because all respect for his town play goes out the window for a very long time otherwise

This is Ulti intentionally playing dumb with Hb's flip to try and make himself look more town.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Entertaining Lopens idiocy when he is provably not reading the game is a bad idea. I am why people finally killed Sultan and I was I think the first on HB. Never budged, ultimately proven right.

Lopen spent all day trying to keep HB alive, and he was kept alive by Death being an absolute idiot with his role. He frankly better be scum, because all respect for his town play goes out the window for a very long time otherwise. This is every bit as trashy as Stu tunneling me all game a few months ago when I was the town doctor.

HB stole death's ability and used it on himself

changmas posted...

HB stole death's ability and used it on himself

And no one who read today (or yesterday, quite frankly) wouldn't know that

Ulti is playing dumb-- "IF I WAS SCUM OF COURSE I'D KNOW HB DID THAT, I DID NOT SO ERGO I'M TOWN"

UltimaterializerX posted...

I sent the action to the host. PMing another player directly is a modkill.

not what i meant but it answers my question anyway i guess

This is Hangut. Han found the hint.