Current Events > Apparently top players are talking about banning Steve in Smash Ultimate now.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Background_Guy posted...

Smash players are so bad at their own game that they ban characters who win too much. Does any other game do this?

It's less that and more that Smash is designed around casual balance and not competitive play. So it's much more likely that there's going to be a severely overpowered character than in most other competitive games.

It's like the problem Hearthstone deals with. Where it wants to be this wild, crazy, wacky cardgame, but if it's too wild and crazy then the imbalance of the game keeps the good players away.

Background_Guy posted...

Smash players are so bad at their own game that they ban characters who win too much. Does any other game do this?

First there has never been a wide spread ban in Smash Bros. Some individual tournaments might have chosen to ban Metaknight in Brawl or Bayo in 4, but nothing was ever official. Second, yes, plenty of fighting games ban characters. Most notably Akuma in Street Fighter 2 Turbo, and more recently Michelangelo from Nickelodeon All Stars.

Meta Knight would be higher if they actually gave him the range of a sword and not a goddamn butter knife.

- Give MK his brawl range. A uair from brawl is basically a 180 slash, as it should be vs his current shallow 45

-The 1v1 mechanics boosts everyone's damage, so the average character is dealing 12-15% per hit... MK barely breaks 10% unless it's a smash attack.

- Give him a projectile. He uses them in every Kirby game

- MK is barely heavier than Kirby despite wearing a lot of armor + weapon. Make him heavier

- Tornado sucks, it does crap damage, and kinda situational. If you are not already touching the wind might blow them out of range

- Drill Rush should eat shields

-Up and Down b should be better in general.

Give him that and he'll at least be high tier. MK is actually worse than his Sm4sh incarnation

I think they also banned one of the DLC characters from dbzf a few weeks ago

PowerOats posted...

I think they also banned one of the DLC characters from dbzf a few weeks ago

had to be done. too good etc.

PowerOats posted...

I think they also banned one of the DLC characters from dbzf a few weeks ago

that character was legitimately on like 90% of teams. 7/8 top 8s. that was a good ban

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/5/5/AAPa_qAADXS_.jpg
Fear her

Amazing how seriously people take a party game.

I'm all for banning annoying characters.

Some of these mother fuckers just make the game less fun.

Get em outta here.

UhHunnitKay posted...

I'm all for banning annoying characters.

Some of these mother fuckers just make the game less fun.

Get em outta here.

Truth. Steve's intentionally campy playstyle in neutral contradicts the purpose of a fighting game in general. And characters shouldn't be dying to Kazuya at 0% from anywhere on the stage because they made a mistake and whiffed even a fast attack or tried to hit him and he happened to go intangible and landed a Electric Wind God Fist and he then takes them out with either a 120%+ damage combo ended with a semi charged up smash for the KO, or repeated neutral airs for a meteor KO. The Fighter's Pass 2 balance dev team is a bad joke.

Smash pros spend much time whining that they dont have time to shower.

Well whining and grooming kids.

Honestly I feel nerfs show who just bandwagons or is carried when they drop a character.

I don't mind if you want to use the best tools to win, but at least admit it instead of trying to say it's all you.

Anyone who thinks the Steve players have started winning from nowhere are dead fucking wrong. Steve was originally laughed off as a mid tier at best (certainly in part to that infamous Izaw video that gets memed to oblivion nowadays) and the true believers in the character that stuck with him were quietly labbing the character out while tournaments were still on pause for almost a year since his release.

A year is a long time to push a new characters meta. So these Steve players didnt come out of nowhere. In fact, acola specifically was a top rated menace on Smashmate (online Japanese ladder that many top pros use over there) before he ever attended a single offline tournament. He didnt start winning out of nowhere, and to suggest he is is actually really disrespectful to him because it sounds like youre writing his skill off because of the character he picked. Same goes for the other Steves. Some of them were actually respected players before he even came out (DDee being the biggest example with his Pokmon Trainer, and Yonni was a decent Luigi player).

Its honestly funny seeing whos bitching the loudest about this character (and Kazuya). Its a mixture of the hold forward and win and massive camper crowds. Just people who dont learn the matchup and piss and moan when they lose to a character that requires a lot of studying to beat because theres so many different avenues for skill expression with him.

This ESAM video summaries things pretty well honestly: https://youtu.be/CZwfU0ZhCWo

Anyways Smash Twitter has been annoying af about Steve and Kazuya for months so the Gimvitational results are just going to make it even more insufferable to read

Anyways I do wish the game had a few more patches before they stopped working on it. I think conceptually Steve and Kazuya are fine, though some will disagree with me. I just have no idea why they are so fucking heavy. They should be glass cannons, but just functionally end up being cannons instead. It just skews the risk reward more heavily in their favor because they can blow you up off 1 or 2 interactions if you fuck up badly enough, but live forever. Meanwhile Sephiroth (imo the most balanced FP2 character - he recently won his first tournament, Battle of BC 4, as KEN from Japan exclusively played him in top 8) is light as a feather.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


She received significant buffs in areas that relevant.

Charge shot is + shield, one of the few projectiles that is plus on block.

Frame 4 up B out of shield, basically frame 3 since she has invincibility on frame 3.

Bomb at the ledge is something that 90% of the cast cannot deal with

Farthest reaching non DLC tether grab with a consistent killing throw.

4 out of 5 of her aerials can kill and relatively safe.

She's heavy and has recovery mixups so she usually won't die early.

Basically she's consistent without having to do extreme things to take stocks.

Sonic is top tier, and above Marth? No way.

Yeah Samus is in contention for best ledge trapper in the game

Pepys Monster posted...

Sonic is top tier, and above Marth? No way.

I honestly wouldnt take the subreddit tier lists seriously. I always look to see what pros say, because tier lists do vary a lot more than youd think.

Although Sonic is a lot better than Marth. Marth is just one of those characters that takes way too much effort to play well, and unlike, say, Shulk or Pikachu, doesnt have some broken upside to compensate for it

Background_Guy posted...

Smash players are so bad at their own game that they ban characters who win too much. Does any other game do this?

this post somehow manages to be even dumber than all the other dumb as fuck posts in this topic

https://twitter.com/thisisphoe/status/1538967297716588544

some interesting stats

Im surprised Isabelle is so low. When I was unlocking characters, she was the only one I had trouble with, tbh

Choco posted...

https://twitter.com/thisisphoe/status/1538967297716588544

some interesting stats

So he's a really good player

Pepys Monster posted...

Sonic is top tier, and above Marth? No way.

He is. More so online than when playing lagless in local. Sonic is just dumb good in Ultimate because they buffed him for no good reason when people were already complaining about him.

How are ice climbers not also "playing a different game"

those desyncs are fucking insane. are they just too impractical to pull off in a pro game or what? i dont know how it's done but most clips i see, it seems to just start with like, a grab

PatrickMahomes posted...

How are ice climbers not also "playing a different game"

those desyncs are fucking insane. are they just too impractical to pull off in a pro game or what? i dont know how it's done but most clips i see, it seems to just start with like, a grab

They're not true with DI (i.e. the combos only work if your opponent puts their controller down). Kazuya is kind of like Ice climbers only his combos ARE true with DI.

Ice climbers also have terrible AI on your partner in terms of recovery.

No one knows how to suck every ounce of actual fun out of a game like the Smash community, holy shit.