Current Events > Wait, so Elden Ring's quests are completely broken?

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/vcxlff/criticism_of_elden_rings_quest_design/

excerpt:

One example: There's an NPC where you have to find an item for her quest. Of course she doesn't tell you where it is or even that you should find it, but that's fine. What's not fine is that, let's say you wanted to explore a bit and you went a bit north before doing the main story section. Not even some crazy skip path, just a normal road in the game. Well, boom she teleports and skips to Part 2 of her quest. So now even when you find the item and try to give it to her, she won't react to it, won't give you the reward, you miss out on all the dialogue and narrative for Part 1, and she's in a state which is completely nonsensical and incongruent with what she should be saying. You can google this and find many people had the same thing happen to them.

You trigger that you move on so she moves on as well.

You can still get the reward if we're talking about the spirit tuner girl

I loved Elden Ring for the world/lore and gameplay but the quests and storytelling fucking ate ass

It's not broken, since it just continues on and skips a step. It's a bit disjointed, but you don't miss out on any rewards or anything.

They're wrong when they say you don't get the reward in this particular instance, because you can go back to the shack you met her in and find the item she would normally have given you on the ground where she had been sitting.

Now, on release, there were a few of them that actually were broken, because for whatever reason the endings hadn't been included and had to be patched in later.

Quest design technically isn't broken. It just kinda sucks, barely has any thought about it and clearly they are relying on players making guides as a crutch. It's basically one of those things that worked okay for the more linear Souls games just planted into an open world game with no real rhyme or reason.

People defended it at launch too. Then they gradually patched things to be more clear like NPC's being marked on the map.

"the quests aren't that bad, you just need to read the wiki and take notes like I did"

its actual garbage tier design

Not broken, just kind of dumb.

In fact, he's mostly right, but complaining about that quest in particular is kind of silly. The NPC he's talking about serves a critical gameplay function by upgrading one of your key mechanics. She's in a pretty blatant location, right next to a resting point on the main path of the first place the game points you to, but it would be really bad if she just stayed there if you somehow missed her. So if you advance to the next area, the game automatically moves her to the central hub.

As for everything else, he's overstating quite a bit. The "dialogue and narrative" he says that you miss is a grand total of about six lines which mostly just reiterate the well-established fact that this character has zero self-esteem and doesn't know wtf she's doing with her life:

"What's this? A keepsake? From my men? Oh, goodness me... I can't... They all...believed in me. They all thought I'd make something of myself. Me! Who can't do anything...I think I'll head to the Roundtable Hold. Perhaps I'll find my purpose there".

"Oh, and... Please, allow to me to express my thanks. For giving me that keepsake from my men.
It was as if I was frozen with self-pity. I failed them at every turn. You have my gratitude.
Please, take this".

He says that "the state she's in is completely nonsensical and incongruent with what she should be saying" which is just bologna. The only thing that's slightly off is that she says it's nice to see you again even if you never met her. And that's just me going by the wiki; she may have alternate dialogue, but I doubt it.

And as others have said, if you do skip part of the quest, the reward is just at her first location instead of being given to you. It's also worth noting that the reward is an upgrade for your health/mana potion and the game has more of these items than you need to hit the max.

Bligh_with_no_T posted...

"the quests aren't that bad, you just need to read the wiki and take notes like I did"

its actual garbage tier design

We used to ne able to figure out these kind of stuff before any of is could even dream about a wiki.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

People criticize it because it's structured and handled terribly

Doom_Art posted...

People criticize it because it's structured and handled terribly

Not true, you just want it spoon fed to you

FaultyCircuitry posted...

Not true, you just want it spoon fed to you

The last I saw of Millicent, she said she was going to travel with no further indication of where she went so kindly fuck off with that lol.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


It's not about 'doing everything'

Take Blaidd for example. He says to meet you in Sofria River. He does not give you any more details than that. Sofria River is huge. He is not in any obvious location. The intention is likely they expect players to get to here after this objective. If that's the case then yeah you'll probably find him okay. But if you have already explored every nook and cranny already that's just really shitty design. It's better to just look it up on the wiki.

FaultyCircuitry posted...

Not true, you just want it spoon fed to you

I don't wanna be spoon fed but it'd at least be nice to have a fucking bowl

Also, it's not like the NPCs are necessarily all that noticeable. I looked up the location of Brother Corhyn and walked right past him twice.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

It's stupid. There aren't even any contextual clues for half the quests. You have to live on the wiki to know what to do. I don't have thousands of hours to run around the map and hope I stumble into a quest's progression. Except don't wander too far because you might lock out the entire quest. Sometimes, quest progression and their rewards are completely counterintuitive to any semblance of the standard path through that game. Why would I know to come back to Limgrave? Why would I know to ignore Stormveil until like after I get to Altus Plateau?

pegusus123456 posted...

Also, it's not like the NPCs are necessarily all that noticeable. I looked up the location of Brother Corhyn and walked right past him twice.

Just gotta git gud bro and comb every inch of the map to make sure no one is blending in to their environment! Do you want Ubisoft handholding or do you want a real game for real gamers, bro?

You pretty much have to use a guide or wiki for them. It's not bad once you start using them, but it shouldn't have to be that way to begin with.

The other Souls games are guilty of this, and I love the games. See also Binding of Isaac; I've put 200 hours into that, and still need to use an item wiki

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Everyone will miss Blaidd if they don't talk to a friend or read the wiki. It's just "Huh there's a wolf man up there" if you come across that spot near that one ghost boat miniboss. And then, you have to talk to a vendor who you have no reason to think he'd know Blaidd to get an emote.

For a series about environmental storytelling, there aren't many cues for the supplemental content.

Might have been a valid complaint before they added the NPC markers on maps, but with those now if you miss them that's on you

Bligh_with_no_T posted...

"the quests aren't that bad, you just need to read the wiki and take notes like I did"

its actual garbage tier design

Oh no. Every game isn't made with the same exact handholding design! Oh no, people have more options and there's more diversity in game styles!

I suck at following From Soft sidequests and lores. But it's not hard to understand it has a place and can be more fun than doing the same exact handholdy shit in every other game.

It's funny that some still don't understand these things are part of the reason people love these games so much. Not the missing dialogue part tho

FaultyCircuitry posted...

Might have been a valid complaint before they added the NPC markers on maps, but with those now if you miss them that's on you

I think you have to find the NPC, outside of crones, for them to show up on the map. And then find them again if they move. You still don't always have an idea how characters connect at the time.

Lost_All_Senses posted...

Oh no. Every game isn't made with the same exact handholding design! Oh no, people have more options and there's more diversity in game styles!

I suck at following From Soft sidequests and lores. But it's not hard to understand it has a place and can be more fun than doing the same exact handholdy shit in every other game.

It's funny that some still don't understand these things are part of the reason people love these games so much. Not the missing dialogue part tho

At least give me the tools to figure it out on my own. It's called nuance. There's a room between "Fuck it. Nothing." and Ubisoft The Game at its worst.

By this logic, no one should complain about handholding in games or criticize games in general since that's just intentional design and you don't have a right to like everything.

I think they make the quest structure this obtuse to foster the sense of community the games bring out. The entire hook is cooperative multiplayer, so players are helping each other out. I view this as just an extension that. It's obtuse if you don't want to use any resources, but there are resources available.

https://psnprofiles.com/guide/14002-elden-ring-100-walkthrough-platinum#5-east-limgrave

RetroGamer68 posted...

We used to ne able to figure out these kind of stuff before any of is could even dream about a wiki.

Uh, no? People bought game guides. Are you like 17?

pegusus123456 posted...

The last I saw of Millicent, she said she was going to travel with no further indication of where she went so kindly fuck off with that lol.

And you won't miss where she travels to by simply following the bonfires because her next stop is a main one along the story progression.

Bligh_with_no_T posted...

Uh, no? People bought game guides. Are you like 17?

I dont think that generation of gamers would waste hours running around in Zelda burning every bush they see just to see if they can find a secret entrance, they would read a guide online if they would play it at all.

This game has a ng+ feature. These are side quests so you can beat the game by bumbling through it blind and then go back and revisit everything afterwards and use guides. Doesn't seem like an issue to me.

Soulsborne games have always had NPCs and quests like that

Its intentionally made that way most of the time. Its not broken.

This topic has been a pretty good example of why some people find Souls fans so annoying.

Yeah I won't defend Souls design of quests. There's obviously a reason that most games with a complicated series of quests have a log to keep track.

They just chose not to, and that's their decision.

To me I don't see why people care that much about 100% completion. It's the same reasons why I hate trophies and achievements. I play games to have fun, not to fill a checklist. I didn't know you could fight Malenia until after I beat the game and I did not feel like I was missing content

If the internet didn't exist half the complaint about ER wouldn't happen. Everyone complains about having to follow a guide to do quests but why do you have to do them?

Eh, yeah quests aren't handled well in any of the souls games. My first playthrough of bloodborne was completely fucked because of how much you can miss.

but on the bright side missing side quests doesnt change much tbh.

Punished_Blinx posted...

Take Blaidd for example. He says to meet you in Sofria River. He does not give you any more details than that. Sofria River is huge. He is not in any obvious location.

Yes he is. Why are you not circling and sweeping the map?

UnholyMudcrab posted...

This topic has been a pretty good example of why some people find Souls fans so annoying.

Facts. No way in hell would they stand by if Bethesda did this and say "well yes if you don't explore the game in the exact order the developer wants you too, you'll awkwardly fast forward past a full 1/3 of a questline or even lock yourself out entirely BUT THAT'S ACTUALLY A GOOD THING"

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I found him immediately but didn't understand what to do so I kept coming back until like 80 hours in I finally hit the bush

I4NRulez posted...

but on the bright side missing side quests doesnt change much tbh.

Tbh, it's probably better to miss them anyway, since following the quest to its completion will almost certainly end with the NPC dead. It's a Fromsoft game, after all.

The quests come in a wide, wide variety of various levels of difficulty to complete. It's also designed for speedruns and completionists to discuss as a community, discovering something new with every playthrough as if you were playing it again for the very first time, and to yield the most unique blind playthroughs of an RPG in all of gaming. Do not expect to even hit 70% completion blind, and revel in any real secrets you find the first times around.

Some are incredibly simple, such as the Thops quests or the Kenneth Height quest or the main bit of Three Fingers or the Volcano Manor main quest. Some require either a lot of luck, patience, or a guide like Millicent's quest (which you can't get locked out of, and doesn't skip forward at all, like many of the quests in this game...) Or

What's annoying is a complaint that the Spirit Tuner shows up in Roundtable as if she has some big grandiose questline
....

She doesn't

UnholyMudcrab posted...

Tbh, it's probably better to miss them anyway, since following the quest to its completion will almost certainly end with the NPC dead. It's a Fromsoft game, after all.

However, make sure to do all of Ranni's quest because it's easily the best in the game

Xethuminra posted...

Yes he is. Why are you not circling and sweeping the map?

Who would sweep a map they swept 20 hours ago?

hockeybub89 posted...

Who would sweep a map they swept 20 hours ago?

What are you talking about? Was that your experience with Siofra & Nokron? To look for the entrance presumably

Also there's one or two really well hidden areas in there. Anyway

What's the story? You ended up in Caelid & didn't hit Fort Gael, or what?

Xethuminra posted...

What are you talking about? Was that your experience with Siofra & Nokron? To look for the entrance presumably

Also there's one or two really well hidden areas in there. Anyway

What's the story? You ended up in Caelid & didn't hit Fort Gael, or what?

I had already found Siofra on my own and explored that area by the time I got there. I beat all the bosses and found the passage to that waterduct area and activated all those fire things.

So when I am told to meet Blaidd in Siofra River and he isn't waiting by the grace it's simply a lot easier to just look up where he is. There is nothing changed about the map. He's not near an entrance to anything. He's chilling around behind some massive rock under a bridge. I'm really glad I didn't waste my time looking for that.

On top of that the area is filled with super accurate bow and arrow snipers so it's not even a particularly fun area to explore.

From what I remember all he says is that he doesn't know how to get Nekron and that's it.

There's nothing interesting to solve. There's no 'ah hah!' moment. There's no dialogue from his previous encounter that gives a closer hint. This isn't some super secret encounter that is designed for most players to miss. It's just a bit shit and lazy design that is assuming that either 1. players haven't been to Siofra River yet or 2. They'll just look it up.

I don't know why this game scored so high. The quests are pretty much impossible without reading guides, watching videos, or getting lucky because they don't tell you shit. Even then if you miss one little thing the quest will end or be fucked up. Then the rewards are almost always more shitty than what you already have so they're a waste of time in the first place.

Or 3

Everyone has explored Siofra thouroughly and they still can't find the entrance to Nokron, but you're free to go back to Siofra and discuss that with Blaidd, or try finding some alternate route in, even though you have explored the map already. It isnt a big deal to do it again because of the nature of the game which is absolutely meant to be replayed either in NG+ or helping people as a summon. It's a horse level too, so there's actually a ton of stuff you can do in Siofra which you are not supposed to. And the adjecent areas like 3 Belfries give the impression you can easily reach Nokron from there

Meta knowledge is part of the experience, be it messages in game, on a forum, or a wiki it's all part of the communal experience Souls has always been. That being said, going blind (offline as well) for at least the first playthrough is a wonderful experience even if you miss tons of stuff, I didn't start looking stuff up until my 3rd playthrough and I didn't actually end up missing all that much, mostly night time field bosses, a few side dungeons, Sellen and some of the alternative uses for potions

Hinakuluiau posted...

To me I don't see why people care that much about 100% completion.

because they want to experience the content in the game that they purchased?

Punished_Blinx posted...

I had already found Siofra on my own and explored that area by the time I got there. I beat all the bosses and found the passage to that waterduct area and activated all those fire things.

So when I am told to meet Blaidd in Siofra River and he isn't waiting by the grace it's simply a lot easier to just look up where he is. There is nothing changed about the map. He's not near an entrance to anything. He's chilling around behind some massive rock under a bridge. I'm really glad I didn't waste my time looking for that.

On top of that the area is filled with super accurate bow and arrow snipers so it's not even a particularly fun area to explore.

From what I remember all he says is that he doesn't know how to get Nekron and that's it.

There's nothing interesting to solve. There's no 'ah hah!' moment. There's no dialogue from his previous encounter that gives a closer hint. This isn't some super secret encounter that is designed for most players to miss. It's just a bit shit and lazy design that is assuming that either 1. players haven't been to Siofra River yet or 2. They'll just look it up.

Also

Did you not hit Fort Gael either? Or beat him? Or meet Blaidd there?

Hmm