Current Events > Wait, so Elden Ring's quests are completely broken?

(+) Yeah! (+)

People saying its not broken are in something potent

If you wanna go on an adventure, play Elden Ring.

There's plenty of other games out there to offer the standard RPG experience if you want that instead. And by the way, how well are you able to 100% some of them? Do you even try? Is it not worth it in some of them? Hm

Xethuminra posted...

Or 3

Everyone has explored Siofra thouroughly and they still can't find the entrance to Nokron, but you're free to go back to Siofra and discuss that with Blaidd, or try finding some alternate route in, even though you have explored the map already. It isnt a big deal to do it again because of the nature of the game which is absolutely meant to be replayed either in NG+ or helping people as a summon. It's a horse level too, so there's actually a ton of stuff you can do in Siofra which you are not supposed to. And the adjecent areas like 3 Belfries give the impression you can easily reach Nokron from there

Blaidd says to meet him there. He isn't in an obvious place for players who have already explored the area. It's crappy design. If Blaidd says "I'm gonna look for Nekron maybe I'll see you there" and you can stumble on him that would be one thing but that isn't what he says.

Xethuminra posted...

Also

Did you not hit Fort Gael either? Or beat him? Or meet Blaidd there?

Hmm

I had already beat Fort Gael. Blaidd wasn't there for me IIRC.

Punished_Blinx posted...

Blaidd says to meet him there. He isn't in an obvious place for players who have already explored the area. It's crappy design. If Blaidd says "I'm gonna look for Nekron maybe I'll see you there" and you can stumble on him that would be one thing but that isn't what he says.

I had already beat Fort Gael. Blaidd wasn't there for me IIRC.

You're still only telling me half

You beat Fort Gael? And Radahn? Did you not find the entrance to Nokron? You did all of this before entering Ranni's service? And you didn't beat Nokron and have the artifact when you spoke to her?

Fromsoft fanboy don't blame game flaws on "playing the game wrong" challenge

Difficulty: Impossible

Xethuminra posted...

You're still only telling me half

You beat Fort Gael? And Radahn? Did you not find the entrance to Nokron? You did all of this before entering Ranni's service? And you didn't beat Nokron and have the artifact when you spoke to her?

I played the game months ago so I don't remember fully.

I don't remember Blaidd being there for anything related to Radahn. I remember having to follow the guide to get the gesture from the random merchant to meet him and I remember being told to meet him in Siofra when I had already done that entire area and knowing it would be a waste of time to look for him considering how he was earlier in the game so I just looked it up.

I hadn't done Nokron yet.

Interesting.

If you had cleared Siofra, then done Radahn, and after all that try to enter Ranni's service? It's as simple as you not exploring the fallen meteor that opens up Nokron, located none too far from the first entrance to Siofra where you meet Blaidd. And I'm thinking he should have been at Fort Gael

Or Nokron

Xethuminra posted...

If you wanna go on an adventure, play Elden Ring.

There's plenty of other games out there to offer the standard RPG experience if you want that instead. And by the way, how well are you able to 100% some of them? Do you even try? Is it not worth it in some of them? Hm

This is a hilariously terrible justification for Elden Ring's broken bullshit quests.

Xethuminra posted...

Interesting.

If you had cleared Siofra, then done Radahn, and after all that try to enter Ranni's service? It's as simple as you not exploring the fallen meteor that opens up Nokron, located none too far from the first entrance to Siofra where you meet Blaidd. And I'm thinking he should have been at Fort Gael

Or Nokron

Yeah so you're saying that instead of listening to what the Blaidd told me I should have just ignored him and explored a completely different area instead?

And you're arguing this design is good?

Speaking of which there was one I failed and I didn't even know why.

That religious guy following the weird posing guy. That seemed cool. I didn't see him pop up again and when I returned to where I last saw him there was his stone thing was left which usually means they're gone. What did I do wrong to end that quest? Beats me.

Unknown5uspect posted...

This is a hilariously terrible justification for Elden Ring's broken bullshit quests.

There doesn't need to be any justification, you either like it or you don't. I don't understand this need to create some kinda illusion of validation for subjective opinions...

Punished_Blinx posted...

Yeah so you're saying that instead of listening to what the Blaidd told me I should have just ignored him and explored a completely different area instead?

And you're arguing this design is good?

No.

I'm saying I'm not sure Blaidd can be where you said he was at the time or what happens if you try to start Ranni's quest after having already beaten Nokron. Or if you initiate the quest between beating Radahn and even finding the entrance to Nokron. Because these NPCs do alter their actions based on what you've cleared already. Elden Ring is pretty good about that.

I went ahead and double checked it. You couldn't have been asked to meet Blaidd in Siofra if you had beat Radahn

The funny thing I find about From games is that the fans act like there's some deep, meaningful thought behind everything. But I think a lot of it is just simple oversights or things that just aren't considered.

Like is there a reason the merchant and the smith and spirit tuners are on opposite ends of the Roundtable? You could say that it's so you don't miss the NPC's who will spawn between them. But then they spawn NPC's in areas that you have no reason to go to. I missed the guy on the balcony. I randomly found a dead guy with his usual store bell and outfit with no explanation. I simply took too long to look around the corner for no real reason.

Some quests are designed better than others. Does that mean there was some deep difficulty scaling? No. In all likelihood they were probably done by different designers.

But there's a definite feeling that these quests are designed for a more linear game when Elden Ring inherently is not. There's really no reason to have random triggers to kill off quests in a game like this or have moments where you find stuff too early and you can't do anything.

Xethuminra posted...

No.

I'm saying I'm not sure Blaidd can be where you said he was at the time or what happens if you try to start Ranni's quest after having already beaten Nokron. Or if you initiate the quest between beating Radahn and even finding the entrance to Nokron. Because these NPCs do alter their actions based on what you've cleared already. Elden Ring is pretty good about that.

I went ahead and double checked it. You couldn't have been asked to meet Blaidd in Siofra if you had beat Radahn

So? Again it's a situation where I am supposed to ignore Blaidd and hope that the quest figures itself out?

Even though in several other instances of the game when you do that the quest will end with no warning?

I got myself mixed up with Radahn. Forgive me it is an 80 hour game.

All good

Xethuminra posted...

Naw, man

As per the wiki, which I'm sure is correct in this case, Blaidd will not instruct you to go to Siofra under the conditions that you are describing. What you're saying happened may not have happened the way you remember.

I must not have beaten Radahn yet.

When you meet Blaidd in Ranni's castle he tells you to meet at Siofra River. I had already done that area at that point. I had not done Nokron.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/9/2/AAYVThAADWVE.jpg

Then you were looking for Nokron as per Blaidd's instruction and I don't see the issue.

Yes you had already explored the area and the NPCs themselves make it very clear that going there in general will almost surely be a waste of time

Xethuminra posted...

Then you were looking for Nokron as per Blaidd's instruction and I don't see the issue.

Yes you had already explored the area and the NPCs themselves make it very clear that going there in general will almost surely be a waste of time

Which would maybe be okay in a game where quests don't randomly end without warning if you miss something. The only lead at that point is to follow Blaidd.

In all likelihood it's probably a case of different quest chains having different designers. There's no deep meaning behind it.

Punished_Blinx posted...

Which would maybe be okay in a game where quests don't randomly end without warning if you miss something. The only lead at that point is to follow Blaidd.

In all likelihood it's probably a case of different quest chains having different designers. There's no deep meaning behind it.

No deep meaning? Like what?

"the beautiful thing about Elden Ring is how open it is, you can literally go in any direction at any time"

"If you did not experience this non linear quest chain by proceeding through the areas in the order the devs intended then obviously you can eat shit"

TheGoldenEel posted...

because they want to experience the content in the game that they purchased?

But that includes so many games.
Should Persona players complain that the game is broken when they miss confidents (or in P5R, an entire semester) because of time and ability requirements?
Should Pokemon players complain that the game is broken when they waste their masterball on a Pidgey and can't capture a legendary?
Should Fire Emblem players complain that the game is broken when they let a good unit permanently die instead of restarting the chapter?
I could go on.

I like that a developer has the balls to make a game how they want it to be made instead of catering to gamers who don't share their philosophy. Do I agree with everything From does? No. Do I think we could use some QoL updates in future installments? Absolutely.
But the idea that a player can miss content because of their choices in the game is fine with me. It's fine in other games for most but people rag on From because their fanboys are toxic.

Hinakuluiau posted...

Should Persona players complain that the game is broken when they miss confidents (or in P5R, an entire semester) because of time and ability requirements?

Yes people should complain about how they handled the extra semester.

Hinakuluiau posted...

Should Fire Emblem players complain that the game is broken when they let a good unit permanently die instead of restarting the chapter?

Fire Emblem provides options for players.

On another note, the "reward" people are talking about here is the Jellyfish Spirit Ashes

.... Not a big miss

Xethuminra posted...

What are you talking about? Was that your experience with Siofra & Nokron? To look for the entrance presumably

Also there's one or two really well hidden areas in there. Anyway

What's the story? You ended up in Caelid & didn't hit Fort Gael, or what?

I cleared that area of Siofra way before I met Ranni at her rest

And actually, I killed Radahn before I even looked at Fort Gael, both which happened after my time in Siofra.

Xethuminra posted...

On another note, the "reward" people are talking about here is the Jellyfish Spirit Ashes

.... Not a big miss

The reward is the Golden Seed. I'm pretty sure she gives you the Jellyfish Ashes even if you don't talk to her until she's at the Roundtable Hold.

Unknown5uspect posted...

This is a hilariously terrible justification for Elden Ring's broken bulls*** quests.

Well, the quests arent broken.

not liking the quest design doesn't make them broken, it means you don't like the quest design

people need to gtfo of here with this 'broken' nonsense

tbqh give me more games with quests that make me say "how tf did anyone figure out how to complete this?"

loved it in ffxi, loved it in all the souls games. wouldnt change how the quests are done for anything. dont really care if anyone else likes it or not

What people don't seem to understand is that these games all offer deep, meaningful content in pretty much everything.

Quite frankly if you have a problem with the game, it's mostly coming from your end and not the game's.

Go back to Skyrim if you want waypoints that show you everywhere to go and hold your goddamn hand through the whole game.

Savoots posted...

Go back to Skyrim if you want waypoints that show you everywhere to go and hold your goddamn hand through the whole game.

There's a middle ground between Skyrim and Millicent telling you that she's traveling with zero indication of where the hell she went.

Oubliettes posted...

tbqh give me more games with quests that make me say "how tf did anyone figure out how to complete this?"

loved it in ffxi, loved it in all the souls games. wouldnt change how the quests are done for anything. dont really care if anyone else likes it or not

Don't put content in the game if a bunch of it has to be stumbled upon by chance. It's not some random bullshit world events or radiant quests just to make an illusion of life in the world. There should be some kind of environmental cues. A lot of side quest progression is like if the combat was assigning you an invisible weapon to fight invisible enemies in an empty void.

A black eye in an otherwise wonderful game

Is the gameplay handholdy because it allows you to level up and repeat fights that you die in? No, the combat is tough, but you are handed plenty of tools so you can git gud as you learn the various weapons and moves on your own. There's a logic to it. I would never call it truly unfair.

It's not even like Elden Ring is consistently obstuse.

The guy who tells you that his fort is in that direction is great. There's no waypoint. You use the open world and the map to figure out what he's talking about. That's how the quests should feel.

Not just characters saying they'll see you again and randomly disappearing because you went past whatever their following trigger point is or characters talking like you're old friends despite missing half of their encounters.

hockeybub89 posted...

Don't put content in the game if a bunch of it has to be stumbled upon by chance.

i like that
dont care if you dont

Oh boy, I hear that somebody would hate earlier Elder Scrolls games.

Before the map markers these complaints would have had merit, but if after you've initiated a quest and can see on the map where the NPC is that's on you if you don't come across them again

Was Millicent's questline really that hard? I completed hers just by going through the game and finding her.

I gave her the needle after defeating the boss in caelid swamps, found her again in Altus when I went to check out the windmill village, and then she was by the grace in Elphael.

Hinakuluiau posted...

But that includes so many games.
Should Persona players complain that the game is broken when they miss confidents (or in P5R, an entire semester) because of time and ability requirements?
Should Pokemon players complain that the game is broken when they waste their masterball on a Pidgey and can't capture a legendary?
Should Fire Emblem players complain that the game is broken when they let a good unit permanently die instead of restarting the chapter?
I could go on.

I like that a developer has the balls to make a game how they want it to be made instead of catering to gamers who don't share their philosophy. Do I agree with everything From does? No. Do I think we could use some QoL updates in future installments? Absolutely.
But the idea that a player can miss content because of their choices in the game is fine with me. It's fine in other games for most but people rag on From because their fanboys are toxic.

But you don't even know what choices you're making or that it can lock you out of content. It's like if Persona didn't even tell you who the confidants are or what they look like, and that they might disappear if you don't visit them at night in week 4 of the school year.

When you die in a Souls game, you know why and how. You'll figure out what the proper strategy is, or that you need to come back when you're stronger. It's not a mystery with little rhyme or reason.

FaultyCircuitry posted...

Before the map markers these complaints would have had merit, but if after you've initiated a quest and can see on the map where the NPC is that's on you if you don't come across them again

Their map marker simply disappears if they move and it doesn't matter where they are if you don't even know why they exist.

FaultyCircuitry posted...

Before the map markers these complaints would have had merit, but if after you've initiated a quest and can see on the map where the NPC is that's on you if you don't come across them again

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's only the case if they don't move. If an NPC fucks off somewhere, it doesn't show where they went.

BlackBlueButts posted...

Was Millicent's questline really that hard? I completed hers just by going through the game and finding her.

I gave her the needle after defeating the boss in caelid swamps, found her again in Altus when I went to check out the windmill village, and then she was by the grace in Elphael.

If you do Caelid before Altus, maybe. But it's an open world game, you might do Altus before Caelid. In which case you have to explore the asscrack of the entire world.

FaultyCircuitry posted...

not liking the quest design doesn't make them broken, it means you don't like the quest design

people need to gtfo of here with this 'broken' nonsense

People say Ubisoft games have bad game design. We can complain about laughably easy, but not about impossibly obtuse? When are people allowed to criticize games and when do they need to shut up and respect a developer's vision to make a game that isn't for them?

hockeybub89 posted...

Don't put content in the game if a bunch of it has to be stumbled upon by chance. It's not some random bulls*** world events or radiant quests just to make an illusion of life in the world. There should be some kind of environmental cues.

That is the Souls formula. Elden Ring actually took so many steps to guide players through the major sidequests including the map markers. It's not bullshit that I am essentially getting my cake and eating too by doing another nearly blind playthrough, and taking different routes, not exactly knowing what's in store. Besides, Elden Ring like all other Souls games is about multiple playthroughs and helping friends. We don't get that if you can do it all solo the first run. Not even easily. Like. At all

Xethuminra posted...

It's not bullshit that I am essentially getting my cake and eating too by doing another nearly blind playthrough

I'm sorry I don't have time to play a nearly 200-hour game again.

I like the quest set up of the souls game. It's also fine if other people don't like it, but calling it broken or asking them to change a system that a lot of people do like doesn't sit right

"Because it's Souls" has never been a good defense (I'm not responding to anybody in specific here btw, so no offense). It's just really badly designed, but badly designed things can have charm. But see, the thing about badly designed things, you can actually design it better or more intuitively, and they'll simply be better for everybody. You CAN design something obvious enough that you keep running into those quests, but also make the player think that they are the ones who sought those quests out.

I just see all the quests that I ended up missing and like seeing a bunch of NPCs that look important but do absolutely nothing, and I look up the wiki to discover I fucking missed like a goddamn 4-5 step quest despite combing that area quite thoroughly. Oh wait, it's because I didn't do it in the proper fucking order. In fact, I look at some of the reqs for quests that I did end up finding, and I'm honestly shocked to have found them.

It's like when people try to remake The Room, and it comes across as absolute cringe. A lot of aspect of Souls only worked because of the time and place, as well as lucking into an overall atmosphere that really worked for it. ER was really lucky that it had the budget to pull off its scale. I do like it overall, just wish that it wasn't Souls... like at all, honestly. I wish they did a completely new thing

Oubliettes posted...

i like that
dont care if you dont

I don't like it and don't give a fuck that you do

If I complain about pay to win or too much handholding in a game, no one would jump in and tell me to stop complaining about what the developer wants or what fans like.

Kenneth aint moving out of his keep

CyricZ posted...

I'm sorry I don't have time to play a nearly 200-hour game again.

Considering you've essentially played through the game twice already with that time, I can imagine why

If not thrice, and a speedrun

CyricZ posted...

I'm sorry I don't have time to play a nearly 200-hour game again.

"Shouldn't play From games if you're too casual and whiny to commit to 5000 hours for all of them! Play Fortnite or something!"

hockeybub89 posted...

"Shouldn't play From games if you're too casual and whiny to commit to 5000 hours for all of them! Play Fortnite or something!"

Hey

Might wanna check that back out, if you know what I mean

Xethuminra posted...

Considering you've essentially played through the game twice already with that time, I can imagine why

If not thrice, and a speedrun

"Elden Ring is great you can do whatever you want! Now fuck you if you don't play the game in a certain order in a certain amount of time at a certain skill level. Stop using summons and bombs, ya casual. You're playing it wrong!"