Current Events > Study finds very few trans children changed their minds after 5 years

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Antifar
05/04/22 10:50:37 AM
#1:


https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/04/health/transgender-children-identity.html
Young children who transition to a new gender with social changes taking on new names, pronouns, haircuts and clothing are likely to continue identifying as that gender five years later, according to a report published on Wednesday, the first study of its kind.

The data come from the Trans Youth Project, a well-known effort following 317 children across the United States and Canada who underwent a so-called social transition between ages of 3 and 12. Participants transitioned, on average, at age 6.5.

The vast majority of the group still identified with their new gender five years later, according to the study, and many had begun hormonal medications in adolescence to prompt biological changes to align with their gender identities. The study found that 2.5 percent of the group had reverted to identifying as the gender they were assigned at birth.

As tension mounts in courtrooms and statehouses across the country about the appropriate health care for transgender children, theres been little hard data to draw on about their long-term development. The new study provides one of the first large data sets on this group. The researchers plan to continue following this cohort for 20 years after their social transitions began.

Theres this sort of idea that the kids are going to be starting those things and that theyre going to change their minds, said Kristina Olson, a psychologist at Princeton University who led the study. And at least in our sample, were not finding that.

Dr. Olson and other researchers pointed out, however, that the study may not generalize to all transgender children. Two-thirds of the participants were white, for example, and the parents tended to have higher incomes and more education than the general population. All of the parents were supportive enough to facilitate full social transitions.

And because the study began nearly a decade ago, its unclear whether it reflects the patterns of today, when many more children are identifying as trans. Two-thirds of the studys participants were transgender girls who were assigned boys at birth. But in the past few years, youth gender clinics worldwide have reported a swell of adolescent patients assigned girls at birth who had recently identified as trans boys or nonbinary.

This group also has a high rate of mental health concerns, including autism and ADHD, noted Laura Edwards-Leeper, a clinical psychologist in Oregon who specializes in the care of transgender children. Thats really the group Im most concerned about these days, she said.

I would say that this study tells us nothing about those kids, Dr. Leeper added. Its just that different.

The Trans Youth Project researchers began recruiting participants in 2013, traveling to more than 40 states and two Canadian provinces to interview families. Such in-depth data is rare in this type of research, which is often sourced from online surveys or through children referred to specific gender clinics, who are typically older and often from more limited geographic areas.

Previously published work from the project showed that the children who were supported by their parents during social transitions were roughly equal to non-transgender children in terms of rates of depression, with slightly elevated rates of anxiety.

The new study, published in the journal Pediatrics, followed this cohort as they reached a milestone roughly five years out from their initial social transitions. The study found that 94 percent of the group still identified as transgender five years later. Another 3.5 percent identified as nonbinary, meaning they did not identify as boys or girls. That label wasnt as widely used when the researchers began the study as it is today.

By the end of the study period, in 2020, 60 percent of the children had started taking either puberty-blocking drugs or hormones. The researchers are still collecting data about how many of the teenage participants had undergone gender surgeries, Dr. Olson said.

Eight children, or 2.5 percent, had switched back to the gender they were assigned at birth. Seven of them had socially transitioned before the age of 6 and transitioned back before the age of 9. The eighth child, at 11 years old, reverted after starting on puberty-blocking drugs.

Research from the 1990s and 2000s had suggested that many children diagnosed with gender dysphoria or gender identity disorder (a psychological diagnosis that no longer exists) would resolve their gender difficulties after puberty, typically by ages 10 to 13. Some of those earlier studies have been criticized because the childrens doctors advised their parents to steer them away from a transgender identity.

In the decades since that work was done, societal acceptance of gender diversity has grown, medical practice has shifted and the number of transgender children has increased significantly.

For those reasons, it doesnt make sense to compare the new study with older research, said Russ Toomey, a professor of family studies and human development at the University of Arizona.

Its really comparing apples to oranges, Dr. Toomey said. Many of the children in the earlier studies were effeminate boys whose parents were upset about their behavior, they said. Many of these kids in these early studies that are frequently cited were never even labeling themselves or being labeled as transgender.

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gunplagirl
05/04/22 10:58:15 AM
#2:


Transphobes don't care about facts, they already made up their minds and refuse to change it for the better

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FaultyCircuitry
05/04/22 10:58:51 AM
#3:


gunplagirl posted...
Transphobes don't care about facts, they already made up their minds and refuse to change it for the better


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#4
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ElatedVenusaur
05/04/22 10:59:28 AM
#5:


gunplagirl posted...
Transphobes don't care about facts, they already made up their minds and refuse to change it for the better
With this said, thank you for posting the facts regardless TC.

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FigureOfSpeech
05/04/22 11:02:06 AM
#6:


gunplagirl posted...
Transphobes don't care about facts, they already made up their minds and refuse to change it for the better


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specialkid8
05/04/22 11:06:55 AM
#7:


Still not sure how I feel about young kids transitioning in any kind of way but it seems like they're all doing alright so far. Interested to see where this research goes in the future.

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AldousIsDead
05/04/22 11:07:11 AM
#8:


And I wonder how many of those 2.5% were browbeaten into changing their minds by society. Or hell just beaten into it. We know how this song and dance goes.

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#9
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Brianfellow
05/04/22 11:11:14 AM
#10:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Can't the same argument be made for the opposite?
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FaultyCircuitry
05/04/22 11:13:33 AM
#11:


Brianfellow posted...
Can't the same argument be made for the opposite?

No

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spikethedevil
05/04/22 11:18:25 AM
#12:


This group also has a high rate of mental health concerns, including autism and ADHD, noted Laura Edwards-Leeper, a clinical psychologist in Oregon who specializes in the care of transgender children. Thats really the group Im most concerned about these days, she said.

This trans people are mostly autistic rhetoric needs to fuck off.

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#13
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IShall_Run_Amok
05/04/22 11:20:31 AM
#14:


All transphobes are trash people, and should have their feelings hurt.

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specialkid8
05/04/22 11:21:28 AM
#15:


spikethedevil posted...
This group also has a high rate of mental health concerns, including autism and ADHD, noted Laura Edwards-Leeper, a clinical psychologist in Oregon who specializes in the care of transgender children. Thats really the group Im most concerned about these days, she said.

This trans people are mostly autistic rhetoric needs to fuck off.

How is this rhetoric?

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Antifar
05/04/22 11:59:19 AM
#16:


Bump

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Were_Wyrm
05/04/22 12:03:15 PM
#17:


But one did therefor none of them should be allowed to do things!!!!!!!!!!

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thronedfire2
05/04/22 12:04:04 PM
#18:


Brianfellow posted...
Can't the same argument be made for the opposite?

had to pull out the 25 karma alt for this one huh?

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lww99
05/04/22 12:17:06 PM
#19:


Damn, I had no idea the percentage was that high.

We had a family member, age 9, come out as trans last week.

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Michael_Booth
05/04/22 5:15:00 PM
#20:


Five years is not nearly long enough, it's a start, a good start (especially with such high success rate), but not nearly enough time to base anything on (Especially MEDICAL PRACTICE, OR LEGISLATION), and it would be just repeating the tragedy of "As Nature Made Him: The Boy who was Raised as a Girl" to use this study as anything else, other than that: "a beginning of a study".
Until another 20 years have passed, when the results of this study can be used in a more productive manner.

The "As Nature Made Him: The Boy who was Raised as a Girl study" put us back years if not decades in medical practices, and understanding of the biology of gender, because the notion of "success" was rushed.
It took over nine years to begin seeing the actual outcome (https://embryo.asu.edu/pages/david-reimer-and-john -money-gender-reassignment-controversy-johnjoan-case), and decades after that to see the true outcome, which unfortunately was not a happy outcome.
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MegaManXYZ123
05/04/22 5:21:17 PM
#21:


A Dr Deborah Soh did more research that follows individuals to adulthood.

5 years isnt exactly meaningful

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ElatedVenusaur
05/04/22 5:27:04 PM
#22:


The goalposts move quickly.

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KINDERFELD
05/04/22 5:33:27 PM
#23:


spikethedevil posted...
This group also has a high rate of mental health concerns, including autism and ADHD, noted Laura Edwards-Leeper, a clinical psychologist in Oregon who specializes in the care of transgender children. Thats really the group Im most concerned about these days, she said.

This trans people are mostly autistic rhetoric needs to fuck off.

You seriously need to learn how to process information properly.

Reread what you've quoted, but this time, do so, slowly.

The group being referred to are those with mental health concerns. Some of these concerns included autism and ADHD.

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FaultyCircuitry
05/04/22 9:18:04 PM
#24:


ElatedVenusaur posted...
The goalposts move quickly.

They always do. It's so frustrating. You address one concern and five more appear from the air.

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#25
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Medussa
05/04/22 11:00:37 PM
#26:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


there's a term for this, but i can never remember it... where the derailers try to exhaust the discussion by relentlessly dragging the topic back to the beginning every time it comes up.

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Zikten
05/04/22 11:05:32 PM
#27:


Republicans will say this is a illegitimate study. They only like studies approved by conservative media
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#28
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GrandConjuraton
05/04/22 11:35:29 PM
#29:


gunplagirl posted...
Transphobes don't care about facts, they already made up their minds and refuse to change it for the better


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greyfox747
05/05/22 12:44:44 PM
#30:


Huh weird, I wonder why this topic didnt get more attention, whats up with that

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dj1200
05/05/22 1:09:31 PM
#31:


spikethedevil posted...
This group also has a high rate of mental health concerns, including autism and ADHD, noted Laura Edwards-Leeper, a clinical psychologist in Oregon who specializes in the care of transgender children. Thats really the group Im most concerned about these days, she said.

This trans people are mostly autistic rhetoric needs to fuck off.

how is this rhetoric

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Antifar
05/05/22 8:53:39 PM
#32:


https://twitter.com/deportablediz/status/1522233639349719041


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specialkid8
05/05/22 8:57:49 PM
#33:


I would like to see more information on the parents. I doubt there's a lot of nutty parents out there saying "You're trans god damn it" but it would be interesting to see what their relationships are like across a wide sample.

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LordRazziel
05/05/22 9:09:35 PM
#34:


Antifar posted...
https://twitter.com/deportablediz/status/1522233639349719041
The fact the people look to Ben Shapiro to inform them on anything baffles me.

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#35
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#36
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MabinogiFan
05/08/22 9:05:07 AM
#37:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

I just figured kids were naive and inexperienced in life so they couldn't know for sure until later in life.

But the data says otherwise so I will concede.
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#38
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#39
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Froggish
05/10/22 12:06:59 PM
#40:


spikethedevil posted...
This group also has a high rate of mental health concerns, including autism and ADHD, noted Laura Edwards-Leeper, a clinical psychologist in Oregon who specializes in the care of transgender children. Thats really the group Im most concerned about these days, she said.

This trans people are mostly autistic rhetoric needs to fuck off.
This is a fact. I have ADHD, and Id not at all be surprised if I was on the spectrum too. Most other trans people I know are on the spectrum, so while there may not be any direct correlation between autism and gender dysphoria, the statistics definitely seem to show some kind of overlap.
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Giblet_Enjoyer
05/11/22 4:54:21 AM
#41:


KINDERFELD posted...
You seriously need to learn how to process information properly.

Reread what you've quoted, but this time, do so, slowly.

The group being referred to are those with mental health concerns. Some of these concerns included autism and ADHD.
Kinda defensive here, wtf. I don't think he's misreading it anyway, it seems she's saying that study group (or just the m -> f group, unclear) had a high rate of other mental conditions, but not that group in particular, which is an important distinction.

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Perascamin
05/11/22 5:32:50 AM
#42:


AldousIsDead posted...
And I wonder how many of those 2.5% were browbeaten into changing their minds by society. Or hell just beaten into it. We know how this song and dance goes.
I think the odds of a trans child being "beaten into it" are extremely low as they would have needed parental consent to begin in the first place

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UnfairRepresent
05/11/22 5:43:51 AM
#43:


Perascamin posted...
I think the odds of a trans child being "beaten into it" are extremely low as they would have needed parental consent to begin in the first place
I think he means social groups rather than parents

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gunplagirl
05/11/22 5:52:31 AM
#44:


Perascamin posted...
I think the odds of a trans child being "beaten into it" are extremely low as they would have needed parental consent to begin in the first place
The 2.5% are the ones who detransitioned or opted not to proceed with it at the 5+ years mark. They were saying that many of those 2.5% were probably abused into detransitioning out of fear or as a result of torment from society and family and so on.

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39_Miku
05/11/22 7:10:48 AM
#45:


uh, yeah, of course. That's how education works.
You could teach a child murdering people from *insert country here* is okay and they'll completely believe it if their parents, school and tv say it's common sense.
You could raise a child to be homosexual if all they see in their life are gay couples.
And if you raise a male child as a girl, if the school (including students) protects and supports that belief, the child will be fine with it. I mean, why bother changing? You grew your life like that, no reason to leave your comfort zone into a new world.

It's why education is so important. Your first 10-20 years define you.

And no, the statistic is not evidence for anything at all, it doesn't tell you the parents were right or wrong.

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Antifar
05/11/22 7:14:15 AM
#46:


Anime in sig

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39_Miku
05/11/22 7:14:50 AM
#47:


Antifar posted...
Anime in sig

Nice escape.

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MrMallard
05/11/22 8:08:35 AM
#48:


Trans people are always going to exist, no matter how ostracized or criminalised they become. You don't see gay people being radicalized into being straight with all the heteronormative media they're exposed to since birth - they still end up being gay. No straight person was turned gay by Will and Grace, or an open and accepting family.

This backlash, focusing on supportive parents gone wild by injecting and cutting their children with gender-altering procedures, plays on a greater moral panic of harm to children. No child is getting surgery to transition their gender. No child is getting testosterone or estrogen before they're an adult, or at 16 in the most extreme cases where they've already been identifying as trans for years and receiving counselling. No person would put themselves through this series of hoops if there wasn't something innately resonant about the transgender experience, and tightening those hoops isn't some way of ensuring checks and balances. There's already a mountain of checks and balances just to put the framework together for a transgender child to medically transition as an adult.

This study might prove that to a handful of ignorant bystanders, but anyone who's been paying attention to this over a long enough period of time? They aren't suprised. Because this has been the story with so many transgender people who've talked about their experiences, how they've found out at a young age and either been closeted their entire lives or come out to supportive parents, or came out to abusive parents and who suffered a harder life for it. Not to say that's every trans person, but it is a significant enough subset of them that it is an observable pattern that you can see in your own research into transgender people and the trans experience.

And that brings me to my main point, tying back into what I said about this being a greater moral panic about child abuse.

Because tightening the hoops that a transgender person has to jump through to receive gender affirming care isn't a way to protect children from undue "woke" influence from abusive parents.

It's abuse in itself. It is cruelty being leveraged against an other, with legal ramifications for both open-minded and loving parents and for the transgender individuals in question. And the cruelty is the point.

Parents can be legally reprimanded for letting their AMAB children wear skirts at home. People can observe this and dob them into the police. Like countless supportive families over the years, those parents can take away the skirts and the dolls from their kids before they leave the house and send them to school in shorts, and yet they can face fines and child protective services because one of their neighbours clocked the kid as queer and saw them dressed in pink one time.

And you can say that's ridiculous and hystrionic, but look at how women are being treated in the wake of their reproductive healthcare rights being stricken. Women are being reported to anonymous tip lines for miscarrying. A data collection company is selling period tracker information in the hopes that abnormal cycles can be pinned to pregnancy and miscarriage, and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Right now, children who are trying to cope with a fundamental disconnect with their body are facing a future where their parents are going to be penalized for trying to help them. The purpose of that is to drive them as deep into the closet as possible in the hope that they'll be good, moral, upstanding cisgender citizens whose transness never manifested because the Good Guys nipped it in the bud.

But studies like this, conducted by people who are focused on the physical and mental welfare of children who present an unorthodox suffering in the form of gender dysphoria, show that the worldview in which that happens will only hurt them more.

The majority of harm to transgender people comes from bigotry and a lack of acceptance. Attempts by their parents to counteract those harms with their support? Punishable under the law. Where's the fucking logic in that?

The people who do detransition - the smallest minority of a miniscule minority, of which an even smaller minority of those go on to become anti-trans activists. Most detransitions come about because of societal pressures, because people don't have the inner strength to live as themselves and go back into the closet because they're sick of feeling like the world hates them. And sometimes, those people retransition when they're in a more loving and supportive environment.

All of this is known to people who've been following the trans experience for any reasonable amount of time. It's all out there. These talking points, these measures to force people into the closet, aren't new and they aren't clever. The measures being taken today aren't rooted in care or concern, it's ignorance leading to panic and bigotry with the intent to force any queerness into the deepest, darkest recesses of a person as it can be shoved.

In conclusion.

It's understandable that people would have reactionary takes on this viewpoint of 5 year olds being mutilated and fed drugs. It's simply not the case. As it stands, even before this increased criminalisation of trans-affirming care, a trans minor would be looking at puberty blockers at worst after years of counselling and a long, drawn out series of doctors and specialists before they ever got their hands on hormones or gender reassignment surgery.

Studies like this that are concerned with the wellbeing of trans-identifying children are showing a disconnect between physical sex and mental gender not only from a young age, but they show it persisting over the course of years. This isn't a bunch of faux-progressive frauds bullying their children into being queer, the study concerns dysphoria and mental wellbeing over a long period of time - during which, trans identification tracks far more often than it doesn't.

Every measure is being taken to ensure that children don't make irreversible, life-altering decisions about themselves that they might regret later. Studies like this exist for that very purpose. The question should be posed - for all this moral panic about the ones who regret it, who explored a non-conventional approach to gender and didn't like it, the ones supposedly being pushed into it by their overbearing woke shill parents, what about the ones who don't change their minds, and never end up changing them?

Because that is a majority of trans people. And studies like this are showing the extent of that.

Finally - if you want to feel some justified outrage over whatever platform transphobes are preaching today.

Faux-woke family abusing their children: Devonte Hart, the black child photographed hugging a police officer with unimaginable fear on his face in the wake of the 2015 BLM protests. He, several of his siblings and multiple other PoC children were adopted by a couple of suburban moms. They'd shuttle them out to BLM protests and have them pass water to police officers, and use them for pro-police photo ops as a rebuttal against BLM members criticizing the police.

The pair preached healthy vegan living, and had their kids pose with organic vegan food for their internet followers. In reality, the kids were fed on a diet of chicken nuggets and other processed food, and often so little of it that they were malnourished and underweight. The family lived in a large suburban range-style house - all seven children slept in one room with two loveseats and a piece of foam for a bed.

All seven were killed after one of the parents loaded them into a car and drove into the ocean after she had been drinking. Several of the kids were found deceased, most of them were never found. Devonte was never found.

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creativerealms
05/11/22 8:10:16 AM
#49:


Not surprising.

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MrMallard
05/11/22 8:14:25 AM
#50:


Irreversible surgery being performed on ignorant and non-consenting minors: intersex people have been going through corrective surgery for years. Whichever set of genitals look the most developed tend to get preferred, and the other set of genitals is surgically altered in the hopes of granting the child a normal life.

Unfortunately, both male and female symptoms of puberty tend to manifest in intersex people. This also causes problems as internal and external sex organs begin to change, and the effects of that corrective surgery tend to lead to permanent health problems as intersex people grow older.

A recent study has shown that intersex people who weren't operated on as babies tend to be a lot healthier, and there's a call in the intersex community to raise awareness of this and to end the practice of childhood genital surgery. Your empathy for children receiving inoperable surgery on their genitals and being left with regret and health problems for the rest of their lives would be much better aimed at the group of people who overwhelmingly suffer that fate - intersex people.

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