Board 8 > So, I'm playing Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney (spoilers)

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04/20/22 9:59:59 AM
#101:


Yeah, I thought not. I guess he runs a couple of times, and he does throw a phone to Edgeworth.

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Leonhart4
04/20/22 5:10:20 PM
#102:


He manages to eat a glass bottle too

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PrinceOfKoopas
04/20/22 8:15:15 PM
#103:


He tanks an uppercut from Apollo later as Hobo Phoenix.

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Leonhart4
04/20/22 8:18:20 PM
#104:


PrinceOfKoopas posted...
He tanks an uppercut from Apollo later as Hobo Phoenix.

Well, we know Phoenix is an defensive tank. There's a decently lengthy list of punishment he's endured for being a lawyer. He doesn't seem to have much in the way of an offensive arsenal though.

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04/20/22 8:39:52 PM
#105:


  • Espella agrees to stay in the sketchy bar full of thugs so that Phoenix and Luke can go out alone, incognito. I can maybe believe that Luke could go unnoticed, but Phoenix has to be almost as famous as Espella, right?
  • Holy crap, GAA even stole "character pulls out a block of stone/wax and starts carving it while talking to you." What a random and specific thing to steal.
  • "I'm more of a grape juice guy, myself." Phoenix Wright: renowned bad taste man.
  • Luke: "Do you think you'll find your soulmate?" Phoenix: "No, Luke, I can say with certainty that I won't." Little does Luke realize that Phoenix has already found his. Which of his three possible love interests am I talking about? You decide.
  • Wow, Afro Tarzan Talk Barrel Kid, this is a character I didn't see coming.
  • "Mommy's little milk muffin."
  • Knightle decides to become a potato peeler and change his name to Spudley. Honestly, the pun names make a lot more sense if they're all names that you accept after getting a related job.
  • Explosion of pink smoke. Does this get added to the list of physical abuse Phoenix has taken? I love how Phoenix immediately starts asking questions, and only adds "let's see if anyone's injured" as an afterthought.
  • Phoenix finds a tiny bell, someone in a cloak steals it, and then runs away at what can't even be called a brisk walk, and Phoenix still can't catch up. He catches up only because they trip.
  • Oh my godddddddddddd it's Kira. I'm shocked, if only because I thought the game would spend more than an hour after Maya's "death" before revealing that the executions are a sham.
  • I love how Luke doesn't recognize her, he's just like "huh, she's kinda familiar."
  • I just realized, how does Barnham know that no resurrection spell exists if he didn't even know about godoor?
  • Greyerl's default face looks really off when she's being sincere instead of sarcastic.
  • I like how the judge is sympathetic to Greyerl and wants to find an alternate solution to executing her, but she was guilty of attempted murder, you know.
  • I like how Phoenix, as the only adult in the room, okays Luke's plan to endanger himself in a cage that's dipped into fire.
  • Cutsene of Maya running from some cloaked guys, then Layton saves her. Man, is he supposed to be a badass while threatening the cloaked guys with a stick? Because he's way too simplistically drawn and monotonous to be a badass.
  • Ah, Layon and Maya teaming up, I see we're going for the 'every combination of characters together' route. Will we get Layton, Phoenix, and Maya together at some point? ... Probably not.

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Leonhart4
04/20/22 8:46:47 PM
#106:


Phoenix is also a grilled chicken sandwich man

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04/20/22 11:05:13 PM
#107:


  • I love how the game is still trying to play coy about whether or not Layton was really turned to gold, as if anyone playing could possibly believe the magic is real.
  • Oh, it's the witch that turned Layton to gold, and she's in charge of the cloaked guys. At least Maya does something useful and recognizes her. You know what, I'm taking it back. New prediction: Darklaw actually is the final boss, and she brought you here to disrupt ST's plans because she couldn't do it on her own. I base this on the fact that my initial prediction was based on AA twists always having multiple layers, but so far, the cases have all had like one layer fewer than an AA game.
  • I refuse to believe that you could see through that giant golden visor even with real magic.
  • Eldwitch Woods is a fantastic name.
  • Got to the part where Layton fixes the bridge. Not a lot happened in the interim.

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Raka_Putra
04/21/22 12:15:42 AM
#108:


Magic is real, uu~!

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04/21/22 12:58:42 AM
#109:


  • Layton agrees to help one of the robed servants mix up a sketchy potion for the Great Witch. Layton, I know you like puzzles, but maybe don't help the obvious villains.
  • I mean, is no one going to talk about how Greyerl was happy to let Maya take the fall for her? Or how she could have just dumped the scepter in the woods at any time? Sorry, I know this is late,
  • Layton says "we need to figure out the fake shade," and oh my god, this is a puzzle that's integrated logically into the game. I'm actually shocked.
  • Barnham: "Was she not sent to the flames as a witch?" ... No, Barnham. She was burned by mistake. You were there! You had a whole conversation with Phoenix where you apologized for it!
  • Oh man, these less important shades have really bad voice acting. This is the quality of voice acting that I could do.
  • This is the second time in the game a red liquid was mistaken for blood, I'm just saying.
Chapter 6: Secrets of the Underground Ruins
  • Wait, this chapter is just more exploration, instead of a trial? You can do that? Why even split this into a new chapter, then?
  • Oh boy, an ancient underground ruin. Whenever I see these in games, all I want is an explanation of who's keeping these braziers lit.
  • "Archaic ruins are my speciality." He says that exactly like Obi-Wan says "Sith Lords are our speciality," but I can't quite tell if that's an intentional reference. I think it is, because no one says "speciality," but it's an odd references if so.
  • You can tell the Great Witch is really magic because her text is colored pink.
  • Maya is sure acting like this is the adventure of a lifetime. I guess her adventures rarely take her outside of Los Angeles and the ancient Shinto village just outside the city, so this is still kind of exotic for her.
  • "The Order of the English Gentleman and Feisty Spirit Medium." Layton sure takes it in stride that Maya casually implies that she can summon spirits.
  • Stopped for now, as the perspective flips back to Phoenix. I just noticed that his hands are a slightly different color than his face, I don't know what to make of that.

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Leonhart4
04/21/22 1:10:09 AM
#110:


Layton games do chapter breaks like that

Also there's a brief moment in 3-3 when Phoenix thinks the ketchup stain on Maggey's apron is blood, and E1-2 has Rhoda mistake spilled wine for blood.

And never forget the time Delicia Scones ate blood because it was mixed in to one of the sherbet sculptures she secretly ate a piece of

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04/21/22 1:24:32 AM
#111:


Yeah, but those were each in different games, not multiple times in one game!

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Leonhart4
04/21/22 1:33:23 AM
#112:


well it's medieval times when people were dumber or something

And E1-5 had the reverse problem where Oldbag thought a drop of blood was the sun of the Japanese flag on the Samurai Dog box, so that's twice in the same game!

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redrocket
04/21/22 4:15:27 AM
#113:


Anagram posted...
"Archaic ruins are my speciality." He says that exactly like Obi-Wan says "Sith Lords are our speciality," but I can't quite tell if that's an intentional reference. I think it is, because no one says "speciality," but it's an odd reference if so.

https://youtu.be/WYEBuF-0vlU


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04/21/22 9:32:55 AM
#114:


Leonhart4 posted...
well it's medieval times when people were dumber or something

And E1-5 had the reverse problem where Oldbag thought a drop of blood was the sun of the Japanese flag on the Samurai Dog box, so that's twice in the same game!
Oh God, I forgot about the flag.

redrocket posted...
https://youtu.be/WYEBuF-0vlU
You know what, I haven't seen this in like sixteen years, I totally forgot about that.

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redrocket
04/21/22 10:45:08 AM
#115:


Anagram posted...
You know what, I haven't seen this in like sixteen years, I totally forgot about that.

Time for a rewatch IMO

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04/21/22 11:53:27 PM
#116:


  • I'm actually shocked that Espella got to solve a puzzle, I thought it was a conscious decision by the game to not have her do it. I notice that she doesn't get any special animations during the black void you're shunted into when you solve something, she instead just uses her generic happy animations.
  • Her voice acting for "I'm so glad I was able to help" is so bad that it made me look up the actress, because I was certain she'd be American. I was ****ing flabbergasted to learn that she's actually British, it legit sounds like a fake accent making fun of British people.
  • YOOOOOOOOOOO, NICK
  • I'm 34, and I still don't know the difference between utmost and upmost.
  • Espella is like "I've learned so much and changed so much while traveling with you, I'm like a different person," and it's like, Espella, you've spent maybe twenty hours awake with all of these people combined.
  • After everyone meets up again, they just keep saying generally happy "we can do it" lines. They just will not stop complimenting each other. A group of this size requires different personalities; there should be at least one cynical person. I realize that they couldn't change any existing characters, and Espella needs to be likeable, but I'm just saying.
  • I just realized, if Luke can talk to animals, can he talk to sponges?
  • I like how Layton just assumes he can read this ancient script because he's an archeologist without even looking at it. Although, I guess they're in Britain, so I supposed the oldest possible script would be in Latin.
  • "Please let me help out. I MUST REPAY YOUR KINDNESS!" Wow, unexpected all caps.
  • One day, I'd like to see ancient ruins with complex mechanical gears that just don't work because no one's maintained them in centuries.
  • Oh no, a voice that someone cranked up the reverb on. That means it's evil for sure.
  • So, we see that Bezella has memories of the great fire or whatever, but I'm just thinking back to Layton saying the fire damage was recent.
  • Espella realizes that she's really Bezella, and this is the second most anticlimactic "character with amnesia remembers their true dramatic backstory" moment I've ever seen. #1 is, of course, MGSV. Nothing will ever touch MGSV.
  • Meanwhile, ST somehow knows that "it's begun." I'm nominating "it's begun" for the list of lamest clich lines, after "you're late" when criminals meet each other.
Chapter 7: Story's End
  • Jesus Christ, three chapters without a trial? The chapter structure is really breaking down.
  • Everyone goes to the city, and why do people even like ST? I'm just saying, he's the one who writes witches to exist.
  • Bezella, who looks suspiciously like Espella, uses a magic spell to summon a fiery dragon to attack ST, who's apparently killed and exploded, and to dramatically play the organ.
  • Uh-oh, Espella is back in hypnosis mode. I can't believe I called Espella having a magical necklace that's the key to everything based on zero information. I'm a ****ing master.
  • Several guards arrest Espella, and all of them are named "Vigilante." That is not what a vigilante is. This is like when Retro Studios tried to convince Nintendo to approve their open world Metroid with bounty hunting, only for Nintendo to refuse, and Retro to eventually realize that Nintendo literally didn't know what a bounty hunter is and thought it was just a goodhearted hero who helps people. I guess it's only vaguely like that, but I wanted to use that fact somehow.
  • Darklaw shows up and says that she's taking over for Barnham as prosecutor. I'm not sure if I can count this as another GAA thing, of the main prosecutor being replaced for the last trial, since the first game did that... and the second game... and the sixth game. That just keeps coming up, huh.
  • I like how Barnham just accuses Darklaw of being the great witch with no evidence, then she arrests him for being stupid. I don't even blame her.
  • Phoenix is knocked into by a "vigilante" by accident, I'm going to count this as another example of him taking physical abuse, no one can stop me.
  • Luke says Eve the cat isn't talking to him. Okay, I didn't say this earlier, but again, I thought to myself that the cat is probably going to be a magic witch thing or something. I'm calling a 60% chance that the cat is really Bezella.
  • Phoenix "break into April May's drawer" Wright sure is reluctant to take evidence from the scene of the crime.
Chapter 8: The Final Witch Trial
  • Three trials for the same defendant in one game. Espella has completely shattered the record.
  • Very dramatic courtroom, I approve.
  • Eve the cat is with Espella in the big cage, it's totally not a real cat.
  • "I'm with Sir Blue Knight... Not in a romantic sense, though." Hm, Maya, that's a suspicious detail to deny.
  • You know, a competent lawyer could make a compelling case that ST effectively killed himself, right? Because he wrote the story and made no attempt to avoid the fire dragon spell thing.

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Leonhart4
04/21/22 11:58:35 PM
#117:


"Utmost" conveys the highest possible respect or importance, and "upmost" conveys the highest possible position, whether literally or figuratively.

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04/22/22 8:59:22 PM
#118:


  • And so begins Espella's testimony.
  • "The Inquisition has ingeniously solved the question by disregarding it." Unfortunately, I can tell you from experience that high school geometry tests do not work that way.
  • I like the little movement lines left in the air when Darklaw slashes her gauntlet.
  • Man, Espella sure is more articulate and expressive while hypnotized than last time.
  • I just realized how similar Darklaw's "single finger held out toward Phoenix when she disagrees" move is to Franziska's.
  • "Forensics doesn't exist in this world." *Shows a sketch of footprints*
  • Two animal witnesses in one game, huh?
  • This is barely related, but by far the strongest "freaking out" animation in the series is Kay when she's injured having her eyes flip out.
  • "Court attendants! Carry the accused to the emergency care room!" Ah yes, the authentic medieval emergency care room. And didn't he call one a bailiff earlier, but now it's just an attendant?
  • I love the sexy dominatrix knight girl out of nowhere.
  • "I am but a man who wants nothing more than to feel Foxy's steel heels on his back. You can call me Treddon." I can't believe this got by uncensored.
  • I didn't mention this before, but I appreciate that these medieval people can't measure time precisely, so their time measurements are always just 'after this, but before that.'
  • I refuse to believe this Maya to Mayan joke works in Japanese.
  • I appreciate that one of the guards already has Foxy's footprint on his back for easy analysis.
  • Darklaw's objection voice is very bad. Not nearly booming enough.
  • The guards insist that they would have seen the second intruder, and I legit thought Phoenix was going to say that one of the guards was working against them, only for him to say there was a second witch.
  • All of the objections at the same time made me laugh.
  • "We shall offer our testimony with passion, purpose... and plausibility." Even these guys understand the importance of alliteration.
  • I just realized we haven't had an appearance by That Guy yet.
  • Wait, a puzzle during a trial? Is that legal? Should I call the cops?
  • Phoenix, are you really not going to say that we should try the new pendant on the puzzle? Oh wait, Maya said it. This is her biggest contribution to the game yet.
  • Uh-oh, it's the evil magic bell. And upstairs is none other than Kira. I was wondering when she'd show back up, but I admit, I didn't expect to find her up here. I'm a little ashamed for failing to call that one.
  • Over to Layton and Luke.
  • Aw jeez, I just realized that Luke grabs the brim of his hat exactly like Layton does in imitation of him. Derp.
  • Luke says he'll do a puzzle, then Layton's puzzle solving animation plays. Eventually, we wind up at ST's garden. Whenever I see an idyllic, beautiful location like this toward the end of the game, I always think of the hotel aquariums in Spec Ops: The Line.

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Leonhart4
04/22/22 9:12:27 PM
#119:


The Vigilantes testimony should've been a disaster with that many witnesses but somehow it works for me

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Raka_Putra
04/22/22 9:46:57 PM
#120:


There's gotta be someone who got their SM awakening from this game...

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04/22/22 10:20:31 PM
#121:


Unrelated, but is April May the only time in the series there's like two alternate paths?

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Leonhart4
04/22/22 10:51:23 PM
#122:


Anagram posted...
Unrelated, but is April May the only time in the series there's like two alternate paths?

I feel like there are a couple of other scenarios where you can use multiple pieces of evidence to progress, but I can't think of specific examples. I'm almost positive one of them is in 1-5, but I can't remember where.

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04/22/22 11:33:10 PM
#123:


  • "Crikey!" Luke going for the maximum possible Cockney accent, here.
  • I really like how Layton creates a flashback for all of ST's stories that came true, but it's just two still images.
  • Oh my God, this photograph of young Espella and Darklaw... doesn't have the same hairstyles as modern Espella and Darklaw! This is the literal only time in the series where adults don't have the same hairstyles as when they were 4-year-olds.
  • I like how they don't instantly figure out it's Darklaw despite it looking exactly like Darklaw.
  • ST revealed as still alive dun dun dun
  • Ah yes, Layton's sword skills on full display against these magical knights.
  • This is the best possible mechanic for fight scene in a mystery game. 10/10, rivals the final boss of MGS4.
  • Layton's response once the magical knights are dead: "That was indeed an intriguing puzzle."
  • I like how the mouth movements don't quite line up with what is actually said. It was true in the other anime cutscenes, but this is the first time we've really seen the characters close-up while they speak.
  • I like how Layton's mouth flaps when he says only "..."
  • ST doesn't know that Espella is being tried as the witch? He could tell when other wacky stuff happens a million miles away, but he didn't check that out? Rookie mistake, ST.
  • Hahaha, Layton implies that he's going to be the next Inquisitor, which would finally mean we get Professor Layton vs. Ace Attorney. I'm excited!



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LeonhartFour
04/22/22 11:54:14 PM
#124:


the Layton fight puzzle is probably the most memorable puzzle in the game (for a good reason, at least; that puzzle where you have to "fit" Phoenix, Luke, and Espella into the wagon takes me forever every time)

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Paratroopa1
04/23/22 12:12:43 AM
#125:


LeonhartFour posted...
the Layton fight puzzle is probably the most memorable puzzle in the game (for a good reason, at least; that puzzle where you have to "fit" Phoenix, Luke, and Espella into the wagon takes me forever every time)
That was the exact puzzle I meant when I said this game would have at least a couple of nasty puzzles by the time it was over
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04/23/22 12:48:11 AM
#126:


Chapter 9: The Last Inquisitor
  • Proving the evil prosecutor was involved by finding a wound on their body during the trial smacks a little too heavily of both 1-4 and 3-5.
  • Holy crap, they actually animated Phoenix pacing back and forth.
  • Having Layton appear as the new prosecutor as a plot twist doesn't work after he basically said he would to ST.
  • Oh god, I need to add three prosecutors to the tier list in one game? But I still don't know how if I should include Phoenix from 6-5!
  • Man, everyone just sort of accepts Layton as the new Inquisitor despite his complete lack of credentials, but at least we finally get Ace Attorney vs. Professor Layton.
  • Darklaw really likes the word ridiculous, which is similar to Foolish, and she stole Franziska's hand movement, I'm just saying.
  • I don't know how I feel about going through all of this rigmarole of arguing and evidence all of that, only for Kira to get tired and just decide to start talking.
  • "I just have one question, Ms. Darklaw. Why? Why take Espella up the tower? Why render her unconscious? And why go through the trouble of sneaking past the guards? What exactly was your aim in all this?!" Phoenix Wright has just invented a revolutionary new type of math where 1 = 5.
  • Darklaw refuses to answer on the grounds that this isn't relevant to the question of who Bezella is, and this is pretty easily the weakest "your question doesn't matter" logic in the series. There've been a lot of these, but this is the lamest and most pathetic.
  • Man, people are sure quick to accept Darklaw's crazy description of the Eldwitch Woods.
  • Would Phoenix not immediately notice that some of the shades were men, and thus could not have been executed as witches? Or that if you lose your memory when you become a shade, Maya would oh forget it.
  • Phoenix drops the most obvious bomb ever: magic isn't real.

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Team Rocket Elite
04/23/22 12:59:52 AM
#127:


Anagram posted...
Holy crap, they actually animated Phoenix pacing back and forth.


Just like Ryunosuke.

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04/23/22 1:05:22 AM
#128:


Team Rocket Elite posted...
Just like Ryunosuke.
Yet another GAA thing stolen, I can't believe it.

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04/23/22 1:22:10 AM
#129:


  • Man, the twenty of minutes and three objections of Ace Attorney vs Professor Layton sure was fun while it lasted. This isn't as false advertising as Maya being a huge part of AA6's cover art, but it's really pushing it.
  • I just realized another thing GAA stole: two foreigners taking the position of defense attorney and prosecutor for the final case.
  • Wait, so the witches are always followed by shades ready to fake the spells on command? This is... pretty dumb.
  • Yeah, I knew it, none of the victims died. I guess this does explain the male Shades, though.
  • But... why wasn't Layton robbed of his memories when he was statued?
  • I just realized Luke is missing lol. I'm sure the game is saving him for some big reveal, but that just goes to show how much of an impression the kid makes.
  • We're getting close to the mastermind, we just need to figure out who the new Great Witch is. Surely it's... Miss Primrose!
  • Phoenix points out ST, obviously. Darklaw is like "man do I hate ST for controlling everything," and it's like, is no one ever going to address her necklace being the same as Espella's? That's like the most obvious thing to ask.
  • Wait, yeah, if Kira was ST's choice for Bezella, then wouldn't everyone immediately know that the witches don't die when they're executed? Why even use Kira, why not use some random lady?
  • And she just called Phoenix a fool. Franziska's not one of the stronger prosecutors, and Darklaw is a discount version of her, right down to the daddy issues.
  • Man, for a society that bases its entire culture and identity around the existence of magic, everyone sure is quick to accept magic not being real because a foreign guy used some really complicated logic to prove it.
  • Is no one going to address how, if the Legendary Fire happened a hundred years ago, then ST would have to be at least a hundred years old?
  • Game, stop. Stop. Look. You're not allowed to have a character just dissipate to represent her disappearing when you already established that effect as a VN conceit of a character just leaving the room, just create a new special effect.
  • And ST shows up "as the final witness." I suppose there is a fourth wall-y logic in that, sure.
  • This trial is going on for much longer than I expected, which is kind of funny, since it's my last AA trial.

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Paratroopa1
04/23/22 1:41:28 AM
#130:


It isn't even really Phoenix versus Layton, it's mostly just Layton showing up to steal the show for a bit and not really disagreeing with you in any way, he just has more information than Phoenix does
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04/23/22 4:10:00 AM
#131:


Epilogue: The First Story
  • Discounting spirit channeling, is this the only time in the series that we've had a murder victim be a witness in his own trial? I guess... Roger Retinz sort of counts? By the way, to track down his name, I typed "magician Phoenix Wright" into google, which gave me the list of magicians in the series, and there are so many more than I remembered.
  • When I was making predictions early in the game, I actually deleted one reference to M. Night Shyamalan's The Village because I thought it was too stupid. Guess the joke's on me!
  • Guess I was wrong about Carmine being in on it, but I'm still vague on how he got into the town in the first place.
  • Oh, of course, the entire British government is in on it.
  • Oh, so the underground ruins were real after all?
  • If the condition disappears after a day of not drinking the water, then are you really saying that no one in the town ever oh forget it.
  • So, what would happen if someone in the town lost their sense of hearioh forget it.
  • The topic of research was just... what happens if you make an entire town of hypnotized medieval peasants? If I was British, I'd be so angry that my tax pounds are spent on this.
  • I suppose it's pointless to point out that if the town was designed so that no one would really die, ST still tried to kill Layton with those fake knights, right? What even were those fake knights, are we going to get an explanation for that? And ST sure was okay with Layton running around disrupting things, instead of trying to maintain conditions in his experiment.
  • I'll say this, I still have no idea how Barnham will factor into things by the end.
  • I have basically no faith that your brain would fill in the gaps to the degree ST claims. People would have all kinds of contradicting memories and figure things out right away.
  • Here's a list of characters for the town that someone in a sterile corporate setting approved: a crossdressing teenage girl, a meek flower seller girl, a blonde dominatrix, a super hot dreamy girl with no ambitions, a redheaded pirate girl, and a librarian girl who wants to be dignified but constantly embarrasses herself. I'm just saying.
  • "It's impossible to draw a dragon with so much detail unless you've actually seen it!" This might just be the single weakest claim of the entire series, for a thousand reasons.
  • Now we have a minigame to find the dragon somewhere in the town, but it's not presented in the form of a puzzle, I'm actually shocked.
  • This is the stupidest explanation for Espella's memory possible.
  • There'd better be a really compelling explanation for why Espella and Darklaw had pendants to specifically access the belfry.
  • I like how the music drops out dramatically when Layton asks who the other girl in the photograph is, as if there's even a single player who didn't figure it out the second the photo was introduced.
  • Haha, Darklaw just reappears.
  • I'm going to save my thoughts about this plot twist for later, I want to see everything play out first.

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Paratroopa1
04/23/22 5:07:27 AM
#132:


Anagram posted...
Discounting spirit channeling, is this the only time in the series that we've had a murder victim be a witness in his own trial?
Say it with me - "another thing that GAA stole"
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Leonhart4
04/23/22 7:35:39 AM
#133:


I really hope you got any of Layton's evidence presentations wrong because Phoenix really revels in Layton getting something wrong and finally being able to be on the dishing out end of a wrong answer, and it is glorious

Also if you're going to include 6-5 Phoenix, then it should be an opponents list, not a prosecutors list since Phoenix isn't a prosecutor in that case, although he functionally acts as one by the series' standards.

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colliding
04/23/22 11:20:34 AM
#134:


GAA refined these aspects, not stole

shame on you all

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Leonhart4
04/23/22 11:58:08 AM
#135:


did they though

I feel like the multi-witness gimmick actually worked better in Layton/AA

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04/23/22 12:31:55 PM
#136:


Paratroopa1 posted...
Say it with me - "another thing that GAA stole"
I dont even remember that, when is someone at their own trial?

Leonhart4 posted...
I really hope you got any of Layton's evidence presentations wrong because Phoenix really revels in Layton getting something wrong and finally being able to be on the dishing out end of a wrong answer, and it is glorious

Also if you're going to include 6-5 Phoenix, then it should be an opponents list, not a prosecutors list since Phoenix isn't a prosecutor in that case, although he functionally acts as one by the series' standards.
I did not get the presentations wrong, sorry!

Leonhart4 posted...
did they though

I feel like the multi-witness gimmick actually worked better in Layton/AA
I wonder what gimmick they can come up for next time. Although, I suppose they dont need one, since its been so long that just a normal game would still feel new.

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Leonhart4
04/23/22 12:34:42 PM
#137:


Anagram posted...
I dont even remember that, when is someone at their own trial?

G2-2 spoilers Shamspeare is the victim and then shows up later as a witness

I'll try to find a video of Layton getting something wrong later. They're great.

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04/23/22 1:38:24 PM
#138:


Leonhart4 posted...
G2-2 spoilers Shamspeare is the victim and then shows up later as a witness
Oh yeah derp

  • I'm just saying, this trial has gone on for about an hour too long now.
  • "Let's take this ancient bell that should be in a museum, and put it in our tower."
  • I like how they skim over making the keys to the belfry into pendants for no reason.
  • Whoever is voicing Young Espella is doing a terrible job.
  • Wow, so the whole plot is a result of ST making up some random garbage on the spot to get his daughter to stop being annoying. Once, to get my 3-year-old sister to leave my room alone while I went on a trip, I told her that when I'm gone, witches take over my room, and when I got back, my mom was pissed off at me for scaring her.
  • I don't think Espella's memories are reliable, this is like the fourth time she's "remembered everything."
  • I refuse to believe that a four-year-old could handle that belfry puzzle, even having seen it done by adults in advance.
  • You know, thinking on it, ST has already admitted to just being a corporate guy. Having him continue to do dramatic fantasy poses while he speaks is kind of funny.
  • I just noticed that young ST still has gray hair. I guess that's not too unusual.
  • Thinking on it, Espella ringing that bell and everyone dying as a result actually does make her a mass murderer by 1-4's and 1-5's rules. It's established that little kids are culpable and their intentions don't matter! Espella needs to form the "Edgeworth-Ema-Espella" trio of child murderers. Their names all start with E, too.
  • Just to make sure I understand everything, because I'm getting a little confused here: ST and Belduke lived in a tiny British town, found the magical ancient bell, brought it to the town, and Espella and Eve rang it, accidentally getting everyone killed, right? And then ST said "I'll build my fake medieval town here." Is all of that correct? Because this would have been like a normal modern town, right? Where there would be people traveling outside and return to learn what happened, or the government would notice everyone is no longer paying taxes and arrest you for destroying everything? Did I completely misunderstand what's happening? Because if it's a normal modern town, surely everyone would know about the silver noise thing. Or did ST already make a fake medieval town, and this one is just his second? Because this story is clearly getting too galaxy brain-for me.
  • ST, I'm just saying, if this stupid bell already got an entire town killed, maybe you shouldn't keep it in your fake research project town.
  • It's like... I can accept that they made the tower invisible, but wouldn't people walk into it? Or, we just established that something as mundane as flour can ruin the effect, surely gunk would just get on it. Have you ever seen one of those tents they put around houses they spray for bugs in, those things will eventually get gunk on them.
  • Darklaw is like "did you think you had daddy issues? I have so many, they even involve other people's fathers!"
  • She's like "lol if I change a few details in the Story, ST will never notice." I feel like making his daughter into a witch would be noticed no matter what, unless he just never looks at his story.
  • Layton: "I'm just one of the supporting characters in this tale." Yes, I'll talk about that afterward, it applies to Phoenix, too. This is really Espella's story, I guess?



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04/23/22 1:42:09 PM
#139:


Another thing: this game is going a really long time between evidence segments, like theyre just an afterthought.

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Leonhart4
04/23/22 1:43:26 PM
#140:


Well, the Storyteller doesn't personally pay attention to the day to day goings on of Labyrinthia. I imagine Darklaw is the one who keeps him informed of that stuff, so she can just lie to him about Espella.

But yeah, the Storyteller was writing a story for Espella, so this is indeed her story!

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Leonhart4
04/23/22 5:10:04 PM
#141:


Now that I think about it, Olivia Aldente is a rare circumstance where she's both the victim and the culprit, in a manner of speaking, as is the dude in G2-2 (something else GAA stole...!). Dahlia Hawthorne kinda sorta fits the bill in 3-5, too.

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LeonhartFour
04/23/22 5:21:30 PM
#142:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnBk4JHC1tk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seSLngaZjdI

apologies for the poor video quality but this is the only one I could find

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04/23/22 6:14:22 PM
#143:


  • Having the normal, whimsical cross-examination music playing while Darklaw recites their dramatic story of ringing the bell was a mistake.
  • Wow, so Espella gets a special running away animation, but Darklaw just has to dissipate into thin air?
  • Man, Espella sure can run up a giant tower fast.
  • When I noticed that Espella's case was similar to Edgeworth's and Ema's, there was a seed of doubt about her being guilty, since they also weren't, but I didn't take it seriously. Here's another thing I don't take seriously: Phoenix's logic for why Espella is innocent. I mean, Darklaw could have just dragged Espella over to the dragon fretwork while trying to wake her up. This is like the weakest explanation ever.
  • I like the idea of everyone yelling way up to this bell tower's third floor so Espella can hear them, even though they're five feet from each other. Then when the tower is shown in an anime cutscene, we can clearly see that it's way too tall for them to just yell up to.
  • I appreciate how the game spends like 3 minutes of Phoenix and Layton dramatically saying "we will now reveal the true culprit" while everyone gasps, then the evidence selection noise is Layton's monotonous "have a look."
  • "What are these flashbacks?! I've never had these before!"
  • Wait, wait, hold on. In this flashback, the fire festival and town are clearly, unquestionably medieval. There is zero doubt about this. That is a medieval-ass town. So, was this the modern normal town ST and Belduke were from, or was it already part of an experiment? I'm really confused here.
  • Honestly, I'd say the identity of the person who rang the bell is kind of meaningless. I would have been happier if it had been left ambiguous, like both of them just have conflicting memories, but it doesn't actually matter.
  • The townsfolk, Espella, and ST argue about who's responsible, saying that it's Espella, Darklaw, or ST, but no, it's clearly ST. I don't see how you could argue otherwise.
  • Espella throws herself off the tower, but Eve's hand appears out of a cloak to catch her. Wow, Eve must be really strong to hold onto her one-handed. And how did Eve even get up there if Espella blocked the stairs or whatever? An extra very clearly said that Eve blocked the stairs and that's why no one could reach her on the belfry.
  • One last puzzle, huh?
  • Game, the way Darklaw and Eve were caught did not at all resemble a crane. Their dresses clearly poof up in a way like it's wind magic or whatever.
  • If you wanted to remove the bell tower, why not just destroy it?
  • Oh god, the judge is voiced again. He sounds way too wise, he sounds like the narrator for a fantasy movie.
  • The game is acting like this is the end, but I know better. We've gotten no closure on Olivia's attacker, Barnham's fate, or Espella's mother. There's got to be a moment where Layton goes back to London and sees that cop, who'll be like "oy Layton ow dare you disappear for three weeks" and he's like "oh, cop, lol, I sure had a wacky adventure."
  • ST is like "oh wait lol there was a third instruction to the hypnotized people, you can't see pure black." But if Carmine snuck into the town, then wouldn't he oh forget it.
  • ST knew Darklaw was responsible all along because it was easy to deduce from the belfry? Even if you followed Phoenix's stupid logic about the dragon, ST would have no way to figure that out.
  • So, Darklaw is like "I needed Layton's help, so I kidnapped him, but in order to kidnap him using the 'magic book,' I would have needed to already hypnotize him into not seeing black, so I guess everything in the beginning of the game was just a pretext, up to and including Carmine's fake escape, even though he was actually an outsider." Phoenix is like "okay, but what about us," and she's like "oh lol you saw Espella or whatever so I just kidnapped and brainwashed you too." But if you have the power to remove people's memories, why not just oh forget it.
  • I knew that there'd be no explanation about the magic book falling to the ground at the start of the game when Layton and Phoenix are warped into Labyrinthia, by the way. I called that ****.
  • Hold on a second, why did she fake there being magic involved with Carmine's car being thrown into the trees? And how did they fake Phoenix warping into the book in the courthouse, when there were normal British guards around? It makes sense if there's magic, but not otherwise. And if you didn't want Phoenix and Maya there, then why was there a page in the book with them? And how did Luke operate the pure black machine if he was also hypnotized? And if the cat is a real cat and not a fake hypnosis magic cat, why couldn't Luke talk to it?
  • There is a zero percent chance that Darklaw wouldn't have already known Eve's cat's name.
  • "I had no choice but to bring you here." I feel like you could have easily just not brought him.
  • ST was going to end the Story because he's got "a rare disease with no known cure." Oh wait, no, it's curable now. Wow, this plot thread was introduced and resolved faster than literally any other plot thread I've ever seen, in any other story ever.
  • "Will everything be back to the way it once was?" What way do you want things to return to, Espella? ... to the fake medieval town?
  • ST just "releases everyone from hypnosis" off-screen, what a guy.
  • The judge says "eh, we'll probably just stay here and continue to live like medieval peasants."
  • Eve rings the bell, and no one falls asleep. Am I... am I crazy? I thought that was a function of the groundwater, not the hypnosis. Am I insane? They said it was the groundwater like five-hundred times, they made that super clear. Did I completely misunderstand everything in this game?
  • Barnham is just dressed in normal clothes, and they leave on a speedboat lol. I like how the town gathers to wish them well, and That Guy has a more prominent position than anyone besides ST and Espella.
  • Wait, is this the actual ending for real? It can't be, they can't have Barnham just disappear for the entire climax, show up in a button down shirt at the end, and drive them on a speedboat without talking, there's no way. ****ing Winston Payne's entire family had more of an arc and backstory than this guy.
  • Car-meen-eh?! Isn't it Car-mine?
  • "We couldn't have done it without the help of our friends across the Atlantic." I guess if you go across the Atlantic, you'll eventually reach Japan.
  • What thedgeworth?
  • Oh my god, this actually is the ending, I'm shocked. Is there not going to be a moment where Darklaw says "I knocked Olivia out" or something?
I will post some post-game thoughts later.

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Paratroopa1
04/23/22 6:22:21 PM
#144:


Welcome to the Professor Layton series. They're literally all like this.
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LeonhartFour
04/23/22 6:26:02 PM
#145:


Anagram posted...
I assume that the villains' intricate plan will later explain why they had a picture of two visiting lawyers from Japan prepared in advance of the case they were supposed to lose.

and here's the unwitting good thing you said earlier because there was literally no plan for Phoenix at all lawl

Also, here's the original reveal trailer. This is a fan dub because the original videos are so old that the subtitles don't function anymore and they never officially released this trailer in English

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iy0L4q7BZE

what a game this would've been

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LeonhartFour
04/23/22 6:29:00 PM
#146:


Paratroopa1 posted...
Welcome to the Professor Layton series. They're literally all like this.

And this isn't even the most ludicrous solution in the series!

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Raka_Putra
04/23/22 6:29:57 PM
#147:


Anagram posted...
Wait, wait, hold on. In this flashback, the fire festival and town are clearly, unquestionably medieval. There is zero doubt about this. That is a medieval-ass town. So, was this the modern normal town ST and Belduke were from, or was it already part of an experiment? I'm really confused here.
Listen mate, I don't know how it is like in your "Unionated States" or whatever, but here in Mother Britain we live the good "may-dee-vale" life and we like it just fine, I reckon.

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04/23/22 6:37:49 PM
#148:


Also, thanks for the Layton screw-ups, Leon.

LeonhartFour posted...
and here's the unwitting good thing you said earlier because there was literally no plan for Phoenix at all lawl

Also, here's the original reveal trailer. This is a fan dub because the original videos are so old that the subtitles don't function anymore and they never officially released this trailer in English

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iy0L4q7BZE

what a game this would've been
Yeah, this is very different from the final product.

Raka_Putra posted...
Listen mate, I don't know how it is like in your "Unionated States" or whatever, but here in Mother Britain we live the good "may-dee-vale" life and we like it just fine, I reckon.
I really thought I was misunderstanding something important, instead of just being unclear to begin with.

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Raka_Putra
04/23/22 6:41:50 PM
#149:


Yeah TBH I also didn't really get that part. I just assumed it was just a super rural backwater village.

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Paratroopa1
04/23/22 6:46:35 PM
#150:


The problem with having Layton actually vs Wright is that they would have to come up with a plot where Professor Layton is even mildly mistaken about something
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