Current Events > When people say a movie is a 'coming of age' movie, to what are they referring?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I've seen lots of very different tones/genres/stories described with this label, so what is the unifying thing?

Iike people growing up and going to prom and stuff

a bildungsroman

In genre studies, a coming-of-age story is a genre of literature, theatre, film, and video that focuses on the growth of a protagonist from childhood to adulthood, or "coming of age". Coming-of-age stories tend to emphasize dialogue or internal monologue over action, and are often set in the past. The subjects of coming-of-age stories are typically teenagers.

It usually involves an event, such as seeing a dead body, that strips away the naivety of youth.

learning about life: loss, hardships, conflicts, struggle, responsibility

It's a fancy way of saying teen drama.

MC_BatCommander posted...

In genre studies, a coming-of-age story is a genre of literature, theatre, film, and video that focuses on the growth of a protagonist from childhood to adulthood, or "coming of age". Coming-of-age stories tend to emphasize dialogue or internal monologue over action, and are often set in the past. The subjects of coming-of-age stories are typically teenagers.

I heard "Turning Red" get this label, and I'm pretty sure that's about a kid. I might have heard "Inside out" also get this label.

I feel like I've heard this about certain crude boner comedies too though, idk. Feels like a label that is all over the place.

Guerrilla Soldier posted...

learning about life: loss, hardships, conflicts, struggle, responsibility

Aren't most movies kinda about this though?

Is "coming of age" another way of saying "a character becomes less niave/innocent"?

there are certain rites of passage that are associated with youth, and the bildungsroman is generally a narrative that occurs during a formative period, a time usually associated with going through rites of passage (which is what makes it formative).

MedeaLysistrata posted...

there are certain rites of passage that are associated with youth, and the bildungsroman is generally a narrative that occurs during a formative period, a time usually associated with going through rites of passage (which is what makes it formative).

This is how most people represent it but to me its super unclear.

What "rites of passage"? What "formative period"?

It feels like lots of these movies are built on "at about X age just about everybody experiences life experience Y"

But I struggle with that premise because:

1. It's always super ambiguous what the Xs and Ys are
2. Most people are very different, so to act like there's these sets of Xs and Ys implies a predictability and uniformity of life experience that iMO isn't borne out by the diversity of life experience, even within a single country/culture.

You are way overthinking this, it's literally just an umbrella term for stories about youth maturing and losing innocence

MC_BatCommander posted...

You are way overthinking this, it's literally just an umbrella term for stories about youth maturing and losing innocence

This, there's not much more to it.

It's stories about people learning things and growing up so I can understand how this might be a difficult concept to grasp.

MC_BatCommander posted...

You are way overthinking this, it's literally just an umbrella term for stories about youth maturing and losing innocence

Maybe this is one of those things that relates to my ASD, that tends to be the case when people say "you are overthinking this"..

Still, I get confused because I feel these stories present the idea of a person "growing" from a state to a better state, but to me "losing innocence" doesn't seem like a positive thing.

It's usually about an innocent teen getting a taste of what the real world is like for the first time usually bad.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


That's an Age of Coming movie

joe40001 posted...

Still, I get confused because I feel these stories present the idea of a person "growing" from a state to a better state, but to me "losing innocence" doesn't seem like a positive thing.

Losing innocence isn't necessarily a negative. Like when you realize your parents are just regular people who don't have the answers that could be seen as losing innocence. But you're gaining a perspective that ultimately helps you to relate to them on a deeper level.

Punished_Blinx posted...

That's an Age of Coming movie

Losing innocence isn't necessarily a negative. Like when you realize your parents are just regular people who don't have the answers that could be seen as losing innocence. But you're gaining a perspective that ultimately helps you to relate to them on a deeper level.

Yeah some of those can be ok, but often the phrase "losing innocence" functions nearly identically as "increasing cynicism" and that I think is categorically pretty bad.

joe40001 posted...

This is how most people represent it but to me its super unclear.

What "rites of passage"? What "formative period"?

It feels like lots of these movies are built on "at about X age just about everybody experiences life experience Y"

But I struggle with that premise because:
1. It's always super ambiguous what the Xs and Ys are
2. Most people are very different, so to act like there's these sets of Xs and Ys implies a predictability and uniformity of life experience that iMO isn't borne out by the diversity of life experience, even within a single country/culture.

Well, the rites of passage are usually determined by the myths of the group. So the stuff you see in movies gets absorbed as the stuff that is supposed to happen. It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy where someone sees a story, wants to know what it's like, experiences the thing they saw, it's everything they want (or don't want), then they tell the story again in a different way.

The reason the rites are ambiguous is because it depends on the place and time. Going to prom is seen as a rite of passage, for example, because it is often your first major participation in the world of formal events.

The formative period is, usually, the period before the rites of passage start becoming regular life events.

Obviously this doesn't apply to those with failure to launch from an early age, but they could easily have their own coming of age stories.

joe40001 posted...

Yeah some of those can be ok, but often the phrase "losing innocence" functions nearly identically as "increasing cynicism" and that I think is categorically pretty bad.

Ultimately we all need to grow up and mature regardless and become the people we are meant to be. Which tends to be the universal theme of a coming of age movie. It's something we all go through.

joe40001 posted...

It's always super ambiguous what the Xs and Ys are
Most people are very different, so to act like there's these sets of Xs and Ys implies a predictability and uniformity of life experience that iMO isn't borne out by the diversity of life experience, even within a single country/culture.

almost everyone goes to school in some form, falls in love, fights a major battle, chooses between good and bad. there are definitely things that border on universal. obviously a movie can't apply to every person in the world at the same time.

Come to think of it. You normally see this placed on movies with white protags. (not saying it happens all the time)

But like it would seem that Boyz in the Hood, and Menace to Society should fit as coming to age. But you never see them classed as such.

joenumbers topic

MedeaLysistrata posted...

Well, the rites of passage are usually determined by the myths of the group. So the stuff you see in movies gets absorbed as the stuff that is supposed to happen. It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy where someone sees a story, wants to know what it's like, experiences the thing they saw, it's everything they want (or don't want), then they tell the story again in a different way.

The reason the rites are ambiguous is because it depends on the place and time. Going to prom is seen as a rite of passage, for example, because it is often your first major participation in the world of formal events.

The formative period is, usually, the period before the rites of passage start becoming regular life events.

Obviously this doesn't apply to those with failure to launch from an early age, but they could easily have their own coming of age .stories.

See, I think you are kinda pointing to the thing that is the source of my confusion

Firstly: They seem to imply culturally agreed upon rights of passage, but people often aren't clear about what they are, this is confusing to me. So far "prom, falling in love" are the only specific ones, and falling in love isn't tied to any given age. Plus many movies involve falling in love but aren't considered "coming of age" movies. (Like many classic disney) what's up with that?

Secondly, can you expand on the premise of "failure to launch"?. What do you mean by that? What is "launching"?

Launching is what young boys without girlfriends do in their rooms at night.

joe40001 posted...

See, I think you are kinda pointing to the thing that is the source of my confusion

Firstly: They seem to imply culturally agreed upon rights of passage, but people often aren't clear about what they are, this is confusing to me. So far "prom, falling in love" are the only specific ones, and falling in love isn't tied to any given age. Plus many movies involve falling in love but aren't considered "coming of age" movies. (Like many classic disney) what's up with that?

Secondly, can you expand on the premise of "failure to launch"?. What do you mean by that? What is "launching"?

I think you missed the part where I said the formative period is when these events start happening for a person. So you can, actually, come of age at any age.

Realistically you might want to look at it as a marketing/critical concept for "movie about youth that isn't necessarily for youth".

But the broader concept of bildungsroman is closer to "the start of the age (era) of romance", for example. But that requires some flexibility.

Failure to launch is just not going through rites. I failed my coming of the age of careers for example

joe40001 posted...

Firstly: They seem to imply culturally agreed upon rights of passage, but people often aren't clear about what they are, this is confusing to me. So far "prom, falling in love" are the only specific ones, and falling in love isn't tied to any given age.

There are no specific ones really. It's basically anything that involves a kid or teenager having to grow up for something or for some reason. It could be having a crush, getting a girlfriend/boyfriend, being near the end of high school, hitting a new responsibility due to their age etc.

A lot of these concepts are universal even if the exact situation around it is not.

joe40001 posted...

Plus many movies involve falling in love but aren't considered "coming of age" movies. (Like many classic disney) what's up with that?

Because they're adults. Coming of age movies are about growing up and maturing.

There can be movies where an adult loser needs to learn to grow up but that's its own thing. That's likely what Medea is referring to with failing to launch. There's a lot of similar elements plot wise but the reasoning behind that journey is different.

Can just list the "coming of age" "rights of passage" directly?

All I have:
5-ish = Going to school for the first time??
18-ish = Going to prom?
??ish = Falling in love? (for the first time???)
12-13 = Whatever the hell is happening in "stand by me" that makes it a "coming of age" movie

Joining the Fam is the ultimate coming of age.

@SomeLikeItHoth
@DB_Insider

MedeaLysistrata posted...

I think you missed the part where I said the formative period is when these events start happening for a person. So you can, actually, come of age at any age.

Realistically you might want to look at it as a marketing/critical concept for "movie about youth that isn't necessarily for youth".

But the broader concept of bildungsroman is closer to "the start of the age (era) of romance", for example. But that requires some flexibility.

Failure to launch is just not going through rites. I failed my coming of the age of careers for example

All of your responses seem to be built on this foundation of having a very clear sense of what these rights of passage are but I don't understand from where you get them.

How did you know you "failed your coming of the age of careers"? What was the rule, how did you know it, and how did you know you had failed it?

Also can you clarify, are you using the term "youth" to mean "the state of not being alive many years", or "the state of not yet experiencing rights of passage"?

joe40001 posted...

Can just list the "coming of age" "rights of passage" directly?

All I have:
5-ish = Going to school for the first time??
18-ish = Going to prom?
??ish = Falling in love? (for the first time???)
12-13 = Whatever the hell is happening in "stand by me" that makes it a "coming of age" movie

I guess;

• Going to new school/college or leaving school/college
• Going to a party with no adults
• School dances
• Being left alone with no adult supervision
• Drinking alcohol/doing drugs for the first time
• Having a crush
• Getting a boyfriend/girlfriend or falling in love
• Dealing with school popularity dynamics
• First job
• Learning to drive
• Seeing life in a more realistic way
• Parting from friends and/or family
• Moving out
• Puberty

That's not a definitive list but are some examples. Basically that period of life when you gradually get more responsibilities, take relationships with others more seriously and are on the precipice of becoming an independent adult. But also a time when things seem like they're the biggest deal in the world when in the long term they are not.

joe40001 posted...

Can just list the "coming of age" "rights of passage" directly?

All I have:
5-ish = Going to school for the first time??
18-ish = Going to prom?
??ish = Falling in love? (for the first time???)
12-13 = Whatever the hell is happening in "stand by me" that makes it a "coming of age" movie

it's pointless to list them all, but a rough definition for this purpose would be: some event that happens a first time eventually and then ostensibly continues to happen as a recurring event

some from my novel i waaaaaas working on:
- first online community
- picking your major
- first DIY event
- first job

Hi tc. Covid vaccines are good just fyi

Punished_Blinx posted...

That's not a definitive list but are some examples. Basically that period of life when you gradually get more responsibilities, take relationships with others more seriously and are on the precipice of becoming an independent adult. But also a time when things seem like they're the biggest deal in the world when in the long term they are not.

this is a big part of it as well

Punished_Blinx posted...

There are no specific ones really. It's basically anything that involves a kid or teenager having to grow up for something or for some reason. It could be having a crush, getting a girlfriend/boyfriend, being near the end of high school, hitting a new responsibility due to their age etc.

In your usage here and later, can you define, (very clearly) what you specifically mean when you use the phrase "growing up"?

Because they're adults. Coming of age movies are about growing up and maturing.

What's the cutoff for when a love story isn't a coming of age story? Is it an age? Or something else.

In Disney movies like Aladdin people are pretty young and fall in love but those aren't called "coming of age" stories generally.

joe40001 posted...

All of your responses seem to be built on this foundation of having a very clear sense of what these rights of passage are but I don't understand from where you get them.

How did you know you "failed your coming of the age of careers"? What was the rule, how did you know it, and how did you know you had failed it?

Also can you clarify, are you using the term "youth" to mean "the state of not being alive many years", or "the state of not yet experiencing rights of passage"?

Look, a rite can be anything. Think about how many kids books and tv shows have a segment where the kid goes to the doctor for the first time

There is a certain youthful period where mass marketed coming of age plots are most likely to happen

I guess I do see my mistake, rites SHOULD happen at certain times IF you want to be 'normal'

You know what you're getting me to overthink it. I'd say this covers 99% of Coming of Age movies

• Wanting to have sex and/or an intimate relationship for the first time
• Breaking away from adult supervision for the first time
• A fleeting friendship that exists and ends due to youth
• Dealing with major change at a young age that is out of your control
• The transition from dependence to independence

Pretty much all of them deal with at least one of these if not more

joe40001 posted...

What's the cutoff for when a love story isn't a coming of age story? Is it an age? Or something else.

The setting of the story.

Aladdin is an independent character that's already on his own. His age isn't relevant.

Punished_Blinx posted...

I guess;

* Going to new school/college or leaving school/college
* Going to a party with no adults
* School dances
* Being left alone with no adult supervision
* Drinking alcohol/doing drugs for the first time
* Having a crush
* Getting a boyfriend/girlfriend or falling in love
* Dealing with school popularity dynamics
* First job
* Learning to drive
* Seeing life in a more realistic way
* Parting from friends and/or family
* Moving out
* Puberty
That's not a definitive list but are some examples. Basically that period of life when you gradually get more responsibilities, take relationships with others more seriously and are on the precipice of becoming an independent adult. But also a time when things seem like they're the biggest deal in the world when in the long term they are not.

Thank you for making this list.

So yeah, I guess my issue is that you refer to this in a pretty normative way, like "these things more or less happen to everybody at the exact same time" and I don't think that's true.

I'm not faulting you, I've seen this before from many other people, where they act like life is more or less an amusement park ride that has different stops at different ages and they all have set events that you experience. And this always confuses me because life doesn't work like that. IMO

Two people even in similar cultures are origins are going to have a different set of experiences, in different orders, over a completely different set of ages I think.

The premise these things seem to be built upon is what I want to interrogate. What is this "age -> life experience/rite of passage" map many people seem to have? Where do they get it from? Who or what tells them these rules?

I suddenly feel unattractive

joe40001 posted...

Thank you for making this list.

So yeah, I guess my issue is that you refer to this in a pretty normative way, like "these things more or less happen to everybody at the exact same time" and I don't think that's true.

I'm not faulting you, I've seen this before from many other people, where they act like life is more or less an amusement park ride that has different stops at different ages and they all have set events that you experience. And this always confuses me because life doesn't work like that. IMO

Two people even in similar cultures are origins are going to have a different set of experiences, in different orders, over a completely different set of ages I think.

The premise these things seem to be built upon is what I want to interrogate. What is this "age -> life experience/rite of passage" map many people seem to have? Where do they get it from? Who or what tells them these rules?

I didn't give any ages. I am giving you a list of examples for all potential movies. Not something one movie would cover for a specific age.

There is no map or guide. These movies appeal to people because of either nostalgia of what is usually seen as a simpler time or because they're relating to people who are of a similar age.

Most people relate to things like having a crush, navigating relationships with people they're really attracted to for the first time and the awkward transition from kid to adult regardless of their culture or background. You're overthinking it. These aren't supposed to be playbooks or universal experiences. Just relatable ones. Even if people didn't have sex in high school chances are they still relate to wanting sex in high school and the feelings of being around people they're attracted to for example.

MedeaLysistrata posted...

I guess I do see my mistake, rites SHOULD happen at certain times IF you want to be 'normal'

"Normal" seems to be supposing something like (correct me if I'm wrong) "having mostly fulfilled the rites of passage list at the approximately correctly mapped age".

But that dang map. Where do so many people get it from? I get the impression it's not any sort of concrete thing, but something some people just have as a shared collective knowledge. Is this right? Or is there any sort of reference to it? Like, how did you know you "failed your coming of the age of careers"?

I think if you can answer how you knew that it would really really help me understand.

joe40001 posted...

"Normal" seems to be supposing something like (correct me if I'm wrong) "having mostly fulfilled the rites of passage list at the approximately correctly mapped age".

But that dang map. Where do so many people get it from? I get the impression it's not any sort of concrete thing, but something some people just have as a shared collective knowledge. Is this right? Or is there any sort of reference to it? Like, how did you know you "failed your coming of the age of careers"?

I think if you can answer how you knew that it would really really help me understand.

Well, you see, I do think stuff is meant to be a playbook (actually look up the concept of narreme, I'm not smart enough to explain how it relates to thr narrative mapping you might have in mind though).

But past that, I guess to say I failed is wrong. There are movies like The Internship where 40 y.o dudes get internships at Google.

I don't know where people get the map, usually it has something to do with being a lot like the character imo

joe40001 posted...

Who or what tells them these rules?

These things dont function like a strict set of rules you would find in a boardgame lets say, they are more like general guidelines/benchmarks/archetypes of what a lot of people can relate to and how we can easily talk about/share our experiences with others. People understand not everyone goes through typical experiences a lot of people go through, for instance in the West it would be surprising if someone is still a virgin by around age 25, whereas it may not be as surprising in more sexually conservative parts of the world, but its not like we don't understand there cant be 25 year old virgins here in the west just because its rare. In short if you're looking for a kind of algorithmic outputs to your questions in a perfectly precise and scientific way, you won't find it, overwhelming majority of humans don't process their experiences or talk about things in such a manner.

berlyman101 posted...

a bildungsroman

Gesundheit

Joining the Fam has been the greatest accomplishment of my life.

David1988 posted...

These things dont function like a strict set of rules you would find in a boardgame lets say, they are more like general guidelines/benchmarks/archetypes of what a lot of people can relate to and how we can easily talk about/share our experiences with others. People understand not everyone goes through typical experiences a lot of people go through, for instance in the West it would be surprising if someone is still a virgin by around age 25, whereas it may not be as surprising in more sexually conservative parts of the world, but its not like we don't understand there cant be 25 year old virgins here in the west just because its rare. In short if you're looking for a kind of algorithmic outputs to your questions in a perfectly precise and scientific way, you won't find it, overwhelming majority of humans don't process their experiences or talk about things in such a manner.

I think I understand it more:

The rites of passage to age map isn't prescriptive. It isn't the case that if you were to say... have your first kiss or move out on your own and you were to do those things 1-2 standard deviations from the mean age at which those or any other life event happens, that you are "bad" in some way. But rather you are just abnormal from a statistical point of view.

However, because media tries to express reality (and our aspirations), characters will often be written in such a way that they are very close to average, or skewing in a certain direction the creators would assume is preferable.

For example, they might make a movie about a guy losing his virginity, and they might make it take place close to the mean age that happens. Or even have it take place earlier under the assumption that they think most guys would prefer to lose their virginity earlier rather than later.

This representation of the perceived mean along (along with the assumed aspirational nudging) creates a normative force such that most media reflects a consistent time when "losing virginity happens".

This convention is born from desired relatability, repeated enough can seem to become a "rule". No longer is it "we picked an age that we think people would want the main male character to lose his virginity" and instead it becomes the male viewers thinking that what they see repeated is the age they SHOULD lose their virginity.

When in fact the whole thing was a product of pandering and there is nothing prescriptive or of a value judgement about that rule.

So the "rules" are just an average of what the media thinks we want to see as informed by statistical averages. And a coming of age movie is just somebody acting out some version of those rule fulfillments. Even though, from a value perspective there is intrinsically nothing better or worse about them or their character had they experienced those "rites of passage" at completely different times or not at all.

There is no reason you SHOULD have your first kiss, first job, or first heartbreak at ages X, Y, and Z as reflected by the cultural normative tropes, but sometimes you might feel you should because you see them repeated often as a convention.

But this whole thing is just the human desire to fit in, it's like if tons and tons of movies had a trope of people learning to juggle on their 15th birthday. Some 25 year old could have the same "I missed my chance" sinking feeling in their gut that people have in the real world about the "rites of passage" we see in media.

But obviously it's absurd for that 25 year old to feel shitty about not having learned to juggle yet, and similarly it is absurd for somebody to feel bad about "not yet fulfilled" some "rite of passage".

Ok, cool. I'm glad I was able to think this over and bounce ideas off you all and get feedback this was really helpful.

I too carry around some of these nagging hints of bad feelings about these "rules" but I've never really interrogated the whole thing. And now that I understand that they are consequences of our desire to fit in and not tied to tangible merit I don't feel as bad. Cool. :)

joe40001 posted...

There is no reason you SHOULD have your first kiss, first job, or first heartbreak at ages X, Y, and Z as reflected by the cultural normative tropes, but sometimes you might feel you should because you see them repeated often as a convention.

Interestingly enough, part of coming of age narratives is also understanding that you dont have to feel that way just because your experiences dont fit into cultural normative tropes

David1988 posted...

Interestingly enough, part of coming of age narratives is also understanding that you dont have to feel that way just because your experiences dont fit into cultural normative tropes

I hear you, but they often re-enforce the tropes while paying lip service to people not having to conform to the tropes.

Like I saw a movie called "The To-Do List" starring Aubrey Plaza, and it was all about how she was a high school senior who *gasp* hasn't done anything sexual yet.

And spoilers ever though she has all kinds of sexual interactions through out the film, she doesn't have full intercourse in the climax of the film because she decides it's more important to wait until she feels ready... only to have her have sex very very early in college. American Pie IIRC did the same thing, same with that Blockers movie IIRC. It's always something like "it's ok if you don't fit in!" and then it's the story of somebody who fits in just fine but just 1% slower than everybody else in the universe of the movie but still well far ahead of much of the general population.

I do find movies like that obnoxious, they literally use slight deviations from these faux-rules as the premise for the entire conflict of the movie, pay lip service to self-acceptance, and then almost always fulfill the rule anyway.

Blockers was more about dealing with their kids growing up and letting them make their own decisions than it was about the kids themselves. Also not very often I talk about Blockers twice in one day on here heh.

Also keep in mind that it took a long time to even normalise depictions of sex. So yeah for a few decades it was a popular subject matter. As time goes on depictions of teenage hood change and grow as audience expectations change and people want different angles represented. There really isn't many coming of age movies that are solely about getting laid these days.