Current Events > New York Times with a scorching take on Free Speech.

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TheVipaGTS
03/18/22 12:10:27 PM
#1:


https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/18/opinion/cancel-culture-free-speech-poll.html

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/1/4/AAce2dAADCrm.jpg

we need to stop coddling this idea of a liberal bias or that conservatives are being canceled. It has nothing to do with your political affiliation and everything to do with your ideals. Sorry, but the majority of what todays conservatives say is just flat out stupid and the arguments they try to make for things like abortion or gay rights just have no logical backing to it. Thats why you get shunned. Because it sounds stupid and hateful for no reason.

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furb
03/18/22 12:11:23 PM
#2:



Opinion in the Times. Editorials are not official positions of papers.

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AngelicRadiance
03/18/22 12:11:55 PM
#3:


People have been shamed and shunned for their speech since literally forever.

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Xavier_On_High
03/18/22 12:13:48 PM
#5:


Conservatives are all about individual responsibility until it comes to dealing with the consequences of their actions.

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BeyondWalls
03/18/22 12:14:30 PM
#6:


To be fair, we should be shunning more idiots.

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AlCalavicci
03/18/22 12:14:52 PM
#7:


I didn't realize that free speech is supposed to protect you from anyone shaming you for saying something really fucking stupid

wonder how that is supposed to be policed

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joe40001
03/18/22 12:15:39 PM
#8:


2 Things:
  1. Your link has a bad leading period, it should be: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/18/opinion/cancel-culture-free-speech-poll.html
  2. You seem to be coming to a different conclusion than the article. The article is pointing to how the majority of people feel less free to speak and how that's a problem. (A sentiment I agree with)

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TheGoldenEel
03/18/22 12:15:58 PM
#9:


astonishingly stupid take

without being shamed or shunned is certainly not a part of freedom of speech lmao

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AngelicRadiance
03/18/22 12:16:39 PM
#10:


joe40001 posted...
The article is pointing to how the majority of people feel less free to speak and how that's a problem.
Tell us how you feel about horse paste again

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Unknown5uspect
03/18/22 12:16:46 PM
#11:


"silence some people (critics) but not others (idiots)"

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WrkHrdPlayHrdr
03/18/22 12:51:32 PM
#12:


I skimmed it. It seems to me this is supposed to be the "intro" of a ongoing series of articles/opinion pieces.

They say several times that people are scared to discuss politics now as opposed to 10 or 20 years ago. That's not a free speech issue, that's you getting upset that someone calls you a fucking moron because you think a vaccine has a microchip in it.

Free speech is predicated on mutual respect, that of people for each other, and of a government for the people they serve.

The mutual respect is gone. That's why there are issues now. It used to be you find someone with a different opinion as you and you would talk about it or ignore it. Now if someone has a different opinion than you you take it to Facebook where your curated list of "friends" that probably all have very similar views as you will tell you that you're correct and the other person is wrong. Again, like microchips in vaccines.

Notice the quote above is missing "And people for the government they serve." That's gone unless it's your party in there.

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Ricemills
03/18/22 12:56:28 PM
#13:


American idea of "freedom without consequences" is always weird to me.


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emblem boy
03/18/22 1:41:05 PM
#14:


God this article is getting on my nerves.

The section about it being a fundamental right to speak without being shunned is....just wow. Like, I think people in general should just aim to not be assholes and we should be generally more lax about various social mistakes (with exceptions). But to say it's a fundamental right to not be shunned? Like...come on. https://i.imgur.com/543yndt.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Ags8jIV.jpg I also found this section interesting. Obviously not everyone thinks things are worse. There are going to be minorities who think we are at a better point in time, but ultimately these polls are meaningless to me if more specific questions aren't asked.

If someone wants to make the argument that due to technology we need to be more careful in how we contribute to pile-ons, or that institutions need to have more clear lines on what kind of speech protests they'll allow, do that. But I hate this rhetorical method of trying to phrase the argument to be about a generalized noble good (free speech) that most people agree on, when really the argument is about specific items that not everyone (even self proclaimed free speech warriors) is even consistent in their beliefs about

Hot take but is it actually bad that people are more likely to have an opinion that is out of sync with the rest of society? It kinda actually points to the fact that there is more speech and dialogue happening... It'd just that we need to be nicer about it.

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emblem boy
03/18/22 2:06:28 PM
#15:


Imagine writing this

the First Amendment protects freedom from government restrictions on expression .... That is not the kind of threat to freedom of expression that Americans face.

A few paragraphs later...


At the same time, all Americans should be deeply concerned about an avalanche of legislation passed by Republican-controlled legislatures around the country that gag discussion of certain topics and clearly violate the spirit of the First Amendment, if not the letter of the law.

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MC_BatCommander
03/18/22 2:07:30 PM
#16:


AngelicRadiance posted...
People have been shamed and shunned for their speech since literally forever.

This, anyone saying otherwise is fucking brainwashed

The Dixie Chicks literally got cancelled for not liking Bush

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Unknown5uspect
03/18/22 2:07:55 PM
#17:


emblem boy posted...
Hot take but is it actually bad that people are more likely to have an opinion that is out of sync with the rest of society?
Why do people keep framing it this way? Saying things like "microchips in vaccines" isn't just out of sync. It's fucking batshit.

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mybbqrules
03/18/22 2:11:59 PM
#18:


I'd rather people be shamed and shunned for their relentlessly shit right wing takes than for people to be shamed and shunned for the color of their skin by those same right wing shitheels.

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ComfortablySad
03/18/22 2:16:01 PM
#19:


What a stupid take. If someone is spouting horrible bullshit of course they'll be shamed and/or shunned.

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Zachnorn
03/18/22 2:20:14 PM
#20:


Fun fact: Freedom of speech works both ways. Someone can use their freedom of speech to say something stupid. I can then use my freedom of speech to call them an idiot.

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Veggeta_MAX
03/18/22 2:24:36 PM
#21:


Zachnorn posted...
Fun fact: Freedom of speech works both ways. Someone can use their freedom of speech to say something stupid. I can then use my freedom of speech to call them an idiot.
This. Why is this so hard to understand?

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TheVipaGTS
03/18/22 2:26:14 PM
#22:


No thats not fair. That guy who said the earth is flat and tried to overthrow the federal government has feelings! Please think about his fee fees!

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CyricZ
03/18/22 2:26:20 PM
#23:


This isn't a desire for personal free speech but to control reactions.

It pre-supposes that some are allowed to speak, and others should not be allowed to respond.

It demolishes a fundamental right as citizens of a free country: the right to think some beliefs are shameful.

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Trumble
03/18/22 2:27:51 PM
#24:


Zachnorn posted...
Fun fact: Freedom of speech works both ways. Someone can use their freedom of speech to say something stupid. I can then use my freedom of speech to call them an idiot.


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Strider102
03/18/22 2:29:10 PM
#25:


Veggeta_MAX posted...
This. Why is this so hard to understand?

Most people don't understand what our rights were originally intended for, unfortunately.

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Trumble
03/18/22 2:34:01 PM
#26:


Strider102 posted...
Most people don't understand what our rights were originally intended for, unfortunately.
I'd say a better way to put it is that most people want the rights, without having to take on the corresponding responsibilities.

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Strider102
03/18/22 2:35:00 PM
#27:


Trumble posted...
I'd say a better way to put it is that most people want the rights, without having to take on the corresponding responsibilities.

That works too.

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Antifar
03/18/22 2:40:44 PM
#28:


Less shunning and shaming is happening now than at any point in American history. The primary difference, and the reason you see these takes crop up, is that now pundits can directly receive criticism on Twitter instead of just doling it out.

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BeantownHero
03/18/22 2:45:54 PM
#29:


https://twitter.com/ElieNYC/status/1504855313534619654?t=ITX5J3R6s3_FfCH3GMIJPQ&s=19

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emblem boy
03/18/22 2:46:02 PM
#30:


If it makes y'all feel better (it does for me), this article is getting dunked on on Twitter.

The sad part is, all the criticism will only make the writers double down and feel as though they are correct in their "assessment"

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Prestoff
03/18/22 2:46:03 PM
#31:


You have every right to speak your mind and everyone else has the right to criticize it.

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Veggeta_MAX
03/18/22 2:49:04 PM
#32:


Another thing with free speech people is that they think disagreement is cancelation. They think telling them their opinion is dumb as fuck is cancelation.

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emblem boy
03/18/22 2:49:26 PM
#33:


emblem boy posted...
Hot take but is it actually bad that people are more likely to have an opinion that is out of sync with the rest of society? It kinda actually points to the fact that there is more speech and dialogue happening... It'd just that we need to be nicer about it.


Re reading my post, this sounds like sarcasm, but I'm actually honest here. It's a hot take I have. We are in an age where we have the ability to spread a vast amount of speech. So anyone saying we can say less just seems absolutely wrong to me. And the craziness of what we hear is proof of that

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TheVipaGTS
03/18/22 2:54:57 PM
#34:


Veggeta_MAX posted...
Another thing with free speech people is that they think disagreement is cancelation. They think telling them their opinion is dumb as fuck is cancelation.
Exactly. Like with Chappelle. His views on trans people were foolish. He got called out. Yes, some people called for Netflix to drop him, but that doesnt mean he was being canceled. His opinion which he made public was just being challenged. How people chose to deal with him after the fact is their own right.

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BeantownHero
03/18/22 2:55:29 PM
#35:


"I can't blame black problems on fathers and rap music, call trans women men, shame the sex workers i derive pleasure from and basically castigate minority groups without pushback or potential real world penalty. free speech is dead"

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cjsdowg
03/18/22 2:55:46 PM
#36:


You don't have a right not to be shamed.

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mybbqrules
03/18/22 3:39:31 PM
#37:


The speech is free. The consequences are not.

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TheGoldenEel
03/18/22 3:39:55 PM
#38:


Im just surprised they put this trash out as from the editorial team

I expected this to be like those times they publish terrible opinions from right wing shit heads in the name of being balanced

nope this is what the New York Times wants to put out as their own opinion on the matter

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Antifar
03/18/22 4:26:13 PM
#39:


https://www.theonion.com/in-defense-of-mass-censorship-1848673776?

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Sphyx
03/18/22 4:32:54 PM
#40:


Hilarious.

What blithering imbecile wrote this?!

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Xatrion
03/18/22 4:42:17 PM
#41:


I'll echo what someone once said regarding the subject. Paraphrasing a bit.

You have the right to speak. You do not have the right to be heard. You do not have the right to be agreed with. You do not have the right to have to have your 'free speech' not be challenged by others. And you certainly do not have the right to be free of consequences, if and when your 'free speech' is used to cause harm to another.

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Kolibri X
03/18/22 4:44:18 PM
#42:


cjsdowg posted...
You don't have a right not to be shamed.

What about sluts?

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Xavier_On_High
03/18/22 4:51:06 PM
#43:


Kolibri X posted...
What about sluts?

Especially sluts.

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hockeybub89
03/18/22 4:52:17 PM
#44:


A: "I don't think gay people should have all the rights I have because that offends my religion"

B: "That's selfish and bigoted"

A: "Ugh what happened to tolerance in this country? Everyone with a different political view than you isn't a horrible person"

Enlightened centrist: "A's right you know. Let me ignore what they are actually saying and go off on a tangent about how criticizing stupid opinions is anti-free speech"

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TheVipaGTS
03/18/22 5:12:34 PM
#45:


hockeybub89 posted...
A: "I don't think gay people should have all the rights I have because that offends my religion"

B: "That's selfish and bigoted"

A: "Ugh what happened to tolerance in this country? Everyone with a different political view than you isn't a horrible person"

Enlightened centrist: "A's right you know. Let me ignore what they are actually saying and go off on a tangent about how criticizing stupid opinions is anti-free speech"
The circle of (American) Life. Throw in an extra line with A: Im being cancelled by the snowflakes! And its complete.

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voldothegr8
03/18/22 5:16:23 PM
#46:


It's unbelievable how many people, even educated people, don't understand how the 1st works

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ThanksUglyGod
03/18/22 5:20:32 PM
#47:


https://twitter.com/AdamSerwer/status/1268399248862830592
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emblem boy
03/18/22 5:27:21 PM
#48:


https://twitter.com/ndrew_lawrence/status/1504871480022208541?t=GmL_4cEhpnJjHFUX7Htt5A&s=19

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008Zulu
03/18/22 5:57:44 PM
#49:


Why should freedom of speech mean freedom from consequences?

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Antifar
03/18/22 5:59:06 PM
#50:


https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1504938719039606792


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JimmyFraska
03/18/22 5:59:39 PM
#51:


furb posted...
Opinion in the Times. Editorials are not official positions of papers.
lmao you say this as if they just let anyone put anything on there
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