Current Events > Darth Maul (Ray Park) was supposed to be in the Obi-Wan Kenobi show, but was cut

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/obi-wan-kenobi-darth-maul-scenes-cut-luke-skywalker-replaced-during-creative-overhaul-1235108192/

Obi-Wan Kenobi will include plenty of familiar faces when it debuts May 25, but one Star Wars fan favorite will be noticeably absent.

Darth Maul, a chief antagonist of Ewan McGregors Obi-Wan Kenobi who first appeared in Star Wars: Episode I The Phantom Menace, is not expected to appear in the series. But, sources tell The Hollywood Reporter, not only was the Sith Lord initially slated to return to the live-action Disney+ series as a key villain, actor Ray Park was in active prep to reprise Maul.

That, however, was before those scenes were scrapped amid a creative overhaul that ultimately saw other antagonists, including Darth Vader, added to the show.

Hossein Amini was the original writer who worked with director Deborah Chow on the six-episode series. And while it was reported that preproduction paused in early 2020 because Lucasfilm was unhappy with the scripts, the reasoning behind the pause was a little more layered. According to sources, Chow showed the scripts to Star Wars stewards Dave Filoni and Jon Favreau, who were coming off the success of The Mandalorian, freshly launched in November 2019, and deep into work on season two.

Sources note that Filoni and Favreau were concerned about Obi-Wan covering similar ground as Mandalorian the Lone Wolf and Cub-like story of Kenobi coming out of hiding to protect a child-aged Luke Skywalker. Maul was one of the villains who would participate in the hunt for the pair; Vader was nowhere to be found in this faraway galaxy at this stage, according to those with knowledge of the project. Also, Filoni and Favreau pushed Chow and the show to go bigger, according to several sources. In any case, those concerns made their way to Lucasfilm head Kathleen Kennedy, who pressed the pause button. (Joby Harold was eventually hired as the shows new writer.)

It is unclear how far along in the process things initially unraveled. A boy was chosen to play young Skywalker, but no scenes with him were shot. As far as Parks Maul goes, the picture is more cloudy. One source says Park was on set for preproduction and was also involved in stunt training. The source says footage of Park may have been shot, although another source says it could have been test footage. Whatever the case, Park was back as Maul, or so he believed.

In the overhaul, however, Maul was written out. One source says it was Filoni that conceptually keyed in on a way for Vader to be brought back as the big bad, with the Grand Inquisitor, a character made popular by Filoni in the animated series Star Wars Rebels, also put into the story.

A Lucasfilm source contradicted the account, saying Maul was never intended to return for the series, nor did Park come to set.

The overhaul also led to a new search for a young Skywalker, and a new actor was picked. THR has learned the new Luke is Grant Feely, whose only credit, according to IMDb, is an episode of Creepshow.

Maul stands as one of the more popular villains in Star Wars lore, appearing in animated series including Clone Wars and Rebels, which depicted the final battle between Maul and Kenobi. Maul (and Park) returned to live-action for a cameo in Solo: A Star Wars Story (2018) that suggested there was more for the actor to do in the galaxy far, far away. Solo bombed, scuttling those plans, but soon fans speculated he could appear in Obi-Wan, given that Maul was responsible for the death of Obi-Wans master, Liam Neesons Qui-Gon Jinn.

The first trailer for Obi-Wan launched March 9 and gave viewers a look at McGregor back as Obi-Wan Kenobi, as well as glimpses of a young Luke Skywalker and Uncle Lars, played by Joel Edgerton. One of its key pieces of music? John Williams classic score, including Duel of the Fates, which was used during a Maul-centric lightsaber duel in 1999s The Phantom Menace and saw Maul meet his match at the hands of Obi-Wan Kenobi.

March 14, 4:46 p.m. Updated with Lucasfilm source stating Ray Park did not come to the set of Obi-Wan Kenobi.

"Reportedly" or "Rumoured" I guess.

Now we get Vader for the millionth time instead!

A Lucasfilm source contradicted the account, saying Maul was never intended to return for the series, nor did Park come to set.

flopic?

Hell, this whole post is a SPOILER

The character should have stayed dead. All that Obi-Wan Kenobi defeating him again would do is detract from the one good scene in The Phantom Menace.

This was a battle between two champions and we had a winner. If Obi-Wan goes 2 and 0 against him, Darth Maul looks like a goof.

I know it happened in the cartoon, but that's all the more reason I didn't watch and I'm glad the cartoon is no longer canon.

Need to get Bendu in there, while Tom Baker is still alive.

FortuneCookie posted...

Hell, this whole post is a SPOILER

The character should have stayed dead. All that Obi-Wan Kenobi defeating him again would do is detract from the one good scene in The Phantom Menace.

This was a battle between two champions and we had a winner. If Obi-Wan goes 2 and 0 against him, Darth Maul looks like a goof.

I know it happened in the cartoon, but that's all the more reason I didn't watch and I'm glad the cartoon is no longer canon.

Uhhh...but it is?

Both Clone Wars and Rebels are still Canon. Hell the thought is Ahsoka will deal with the end of Rebels with Thrawn being the big bad there.

I'm not even sure how you would work Maul into the film unless Kenobi is going off-world. Maul very clearly has no idea where Kenobi is in Rebels. It's a whole plot point.

Of course Vader can't know where Kenobi is either...

Yeah he was cut in the movie he was in too

Literally

Phantom Menace spoilers:

Nothing is more normal than Obi-Wan cutting Darth Maul.

If they're going to keep insisting he's alive, which they shouldn't, I really don't understand why Maul wouldn't be in the OWK show if he's in anything at all.

But also just the idea of having Darth Vader in the show diminishes their reunion in Episode 4.

FortuneCookie posted...

Hell, this whole post is a SPOILER

The character should have stayed dead. All that Obi-Wan Kenobi defeating him again would do is detract from the one good scene in The Phantom Menace.

This was a battle between two champions and we had a winner. If Obi-Wan goes 2 and 0 against him, Darth Maul looks like a goof.

I know it happened in the cartoon, but that's all the more reason I didn't watch and I'm glad the cartoon is no longer canon.

It is canon and Maul was one of the best parts, especially the poetic final duel.

eston posted...

Yeah he was cut in the movie he was in too

Literally

Heyooooo.

Anyway, I'm glad Maul won't be in Kenobi. Going by the movies alone, they barely have enough interaction to constitute an antagonism. Maul kills Quan Chi Jinn. Kenobi kills Maul. The end. Resolved.

Then they brought him back for Clone Wars. Then they tried to force an antagonism between the two, but it never seemed in TCW like Kenobi bothered giving Maul the time of day (even with Satine being killed by Maul), and Maul had his shit with the Nightsisters and his brother and that all fell apart, leaving it with nothing when TCW stopped.

Then Rebels happened and Maul actually became a character again with his interactions with Ezra. Then he got his final reckoning against Kenobi and it's my favorite lightsaber battle in the mythos. Kenobi STILL doesn't give Maul the time of day, but this time it works because Maul is played off as this possessed weirdo obsessed with nothing but winning against him. And he loses. And dies. And it's great.

Then he's in Solo for a cameo and I don't care because he already died. Then he's in the last season of TCW and fights Ahsoka and FINE I guess, because at least it wraps up his dangling end-of-TCW plotline.

So yeah, no need for Maul.

DeadBankerDream posted...

But also just the idea of having Darth Vader in the show diminishes their reunion in Episode 4.

"No, man, my name is uh... Ben Kenobi. You're thinking of someone else."

I agree this topic, including the title, is a spoiler.

I have no idea how that would have worked without contradicting Rebels.

FortuneCookie posted...

Hell, this whole post is a SPOILER

The character should have stayed dead. All that Obi-Wan Kenobi defeating him again would do is detract from the one good scene in The Phantom Menace.

This was a battle between two champions and we had a winner. If Obi-Wan goes 2 and 0 against him, Darth Maul looks like a goof.

I know it happened in the cartoon, but that's all the more reason I didn't watch and I'm glad the cartoon is no longer canon.

Their final fight is fucking awesome and really shows how Obi Wan grew and learned

__aCEr__ posted...

I have no idea how that would have worked without contradicting Rebels.

From what I can tell of the size of baby Luke in the trailer, it would seem Kenobi takes place well before "Twin Suns".

Smackems posted...

Their final fight is fucking awesome and really shows how Obi Wan grew and learned

I think it more showed the gulf in ability between the two of them and how pointless Maul's obsession was.

CyricZ posted...

From what I can tell of the size of baby Luke in the trailer, it would seem Kenobi takes place well before "Twin Suns".

I think it more showed the gulf in ability between the two of them and how pointless Maul's obsession was.

Maul uses the exact same technique he used to kill qui gon. He expects the student to die to it like the master. But Obi Wan studied the attack that killed his master, and changed and learned in the way he fought over the years instead of sticking to the same shit like Maul did. So when Maul uses that same attack, Obi Wan counters it PERFECTLY. That's why the fight is so short

@CyricZ just in case you didn't catch this detail

dave_is_slick posted...

It is canon and Maul was one of the best parts, especially the poetic final duel.

Until a live action movie contradicts it -- which will happen eventually.

Disney all about the money and Vader appearance > Darth Maul as far as that goes

FortuneCookie posted...

Until a live action movie contradicts it -- which will happen eventually.

Which is a complete 180 from:

FortuneCookie posted...

I'm glad the cartoon is no longer canon.

I'm not sure it would work with the lore of Rebels.

CyricZ posted...

Quan Chi Jinn

*blinks*

DeadBankerDream posted...

If they're going to keep insisting he's alive, which they shouldn't, I really don't understand why Maul wouldn't be in the OWK show if he's in anything at all.

But also just the idea of having Darth Vader in the show diminishes their reunion in Episode 4.

Disney has no clue what they are doing. Hence why everything after the Disney purchase holds no value with me.

As good as the Obi-Wan/Maul duel in Rebels was, it doesn't change the fact that it didn't belong in Rebels.

That episode was 18 minutes of Ezra bumbling around Tatooine being annoying and then 2 minutes of unrelated cool stuff that really would have worked better in a story about Obi-Wan Kenobi.

FortuneCookie posted...

Until a live action movie contradicts it -- which will happen eventually.

Maul - Maclunkey!

dave_is_slick posted...

Which is a complete 180 from:

In order for something to be canon, it has to have an impact on the continuity. Everything about a cartoon is written so that it doesn't impact the continuity. A cartoon spinoff being canon is like a butler telling a billionaire what to do. (And I don't mean Alfred giving Bruce Wayne advice.)

The cartoon contradicted nothing because Darth Maul is dead. We watched him die. In bringing him back to life and killing him again, nothing has changed. Since Disney had the audacity to bring a man back to life after he was cut in half and dropped to his death, they'll surely put him in another live action property when the time is right.

FortuneCookie posted...

In order for something to be canon, it has to have an impact on the continuity. Everything about a cartoon is written so that it doesn't impact the continuity. A cartoon spinoff being canon is like a butler telling a billionaire what to do. (And I don't mean Alfred giving Bruce Wayne advice.)

The cartoon contradicted nothing because Darth Maul is dead. We watched him die. In bringing him back to life and killing him again, nothing has changed. Since Disney had the audacity to bring a man back to life after he was cut in half and dropped to his death, they'll surely put him in another live action property when the time is right.

Solo spoilers:

Maul shows up in Solo: A Star Wars Story

Not to mention, regardless of how you feel about shows, Disney has clearly put a lot of significance on the live action series, both of which pretty heavily reference The Clone Wars and Rebels (and even some comics).

Also Maul came back before the Disney buy-out. So that was a Lucas decision.

What story events are referenced?

FortuneCookie posted...

What story events are referenced?

No. I'm not actually gonna indulge your constant tendency to make some strong opinion on subjects you seem to never actually know about. Just Google it.

Wicket being named Wicket Wystri Warrick means that the Ewoks cartoon from the 80s is canon.

:/

FortuneCookie posted...

Wicket being named Wicket Wystri Warrick means that the Ewoks cartoon from the 80s is canon.

:/

Thank you for just assuring me that there is no way we could have a good-faith conversation that didn't involve you becoming super pedantic.

Am I wrong? Magic exists in the Star Wars universe because they had a magic crystal in the TV show. Toys and Disney World trivia have that listed as Wicket's full name. That means the cartoon show is canon and everything with it.

Bio1590 posted...

Sources note that Filoni and Favreau were concerned about Obi-Wan covering similar ground as Mandalorian the Lone Wolf and Cub-like story of Kenobi coming out of hiding to protect a child-aged Luke Skywalker.

This isn't the actual plot is it? Unless they make Luke into a Mr Magoo type character how will this lead to anything interesting?

Prequelfy the sequel to the prequel?

Why not.

You will never see a film producer say, "We can't do that. It contradicts the cartoon."

If the specific director or screenwriter working on the movie is a fan of the cartoon, they may make the personal choice not to contradict anything in it. A producer will never have that same appreciation for animated continuity in what is essentially a film series.

We could see the cyborg version of Darth Maul become the big bad adversary of the next Star Wars trilogy. He could be the Star Wars version of the Borg -- infesting the universe with nanomachines which make everyone subservient to him. If he's 200 years old, so what? We don't know how long devil horned space people live.

Don't think Disney would hesitate to make that decision if there was a dollar to be made from it.

Punished_Blinx posted...

This isn't the actual plot is it? Unless they make Luke into a Mr Magoo type character how will this lead to anything interesting?

I mean it sounds like that's fundamentally still what the plot is lmao

Bio1590 posted...

I mean it sounds like that's fundamentally still what the plot is lmao

I'm picturing 'Uncle Ben' killing Stormtroopers and Inquisitors around an oblivious Luke and Obi-Wan having to make up random excuses for the odd things happening around him.

Maybe I'm digging my heels in more than I should.

But the basic business structure is that filmmaking holds priority over everything else. We've seen this in the MCU with the discontinuity of the Netflix and non-Disney+ properties. The moment it's no longer in their best interest to regard a cartoon as canon, they'll disown it. Like they did with Shadows of the Empire. It had a book, a video game, and a comic. Now it's just fanfiction. The same will eventually happen to Clone Wars.

Someone will have an ideal that is not compatible and the need to make money in the present will mean more than a cartoon show from the past.

FortuneCookie posted...

Maybe I'm digging my heels in more than I should.

But the basic business structure is that filmmaking holds priority over everything else. We've seen this in the MCU with the discontinuity of the Netflix and non-Disney+ properties. The moment it's no longer in their best interest to regard a cartoon as canon, they'll disown it. Like they did with Shadows of the Empire. It had a book, a video game, and a comic. Now it's just fanfiction. The same will eventually happen to Clone Wars.

Someone will have an ideal that is not compatible and the need to make money in the present will mean more than a cartoon show from the past.

So because something could potentially become non-canon, then it currently isn't canon? You realize how inane that sounds, right? Especially when all the key decision-makers for these shows/movies are the same people.

I mean even the movies contradict themselves. Hell, sometimes they go back and actually change the movies. By your logic the movies might not be canon because Disney could potentially overwrite them "if there is a dollar to be made". I'm sorry you feel like you are missing out or whatever because you don't want to watch a show, but you insisting something isn't canon despite all the important decision-makers behind the franchise saying otherwise just makes you sound like a petty ass.

They should do a season 2 abour Maul, best of both worlds.

And defintiely override the 23 minute episode of the show Rebels that Obi and Maul arent even the stars of. Would not be worth scrapping hours of live action content with the original actors just for that.

Compsognathus posted...

So because something could potentially become non-canon, then it currently isn't canon? You realize how inane that sounds, right? Especially when all the key decision-makers for these shows/movies are the same people.

Yeah, it's canon or it's not.

You're not going to wake up tomorrow to the announcement that the Pope has a list of Books that can be discarded from the Bible.

Movies make more money than cartoon shows. Disney is in the business of making money; not maintaining their goodwill with 2000s fans after burning bridges with earlier generations

I wouldn't mind if they retconned the Rebels bit with Maul in order to include it in the live action show. Apart from vastly prefering live action Star Wars to the cartoons, I also have no problem believing that two different fictional stories exist.

JimmyFraska posted...

They should do a season 2 abour Maul, best of both worlds.

And defintiely override the 23 minute episode of the show Rebels that Obi and Maul arent even the stars of. Would not be worth scrapping hours of live action content with the original actors just for that.

It just seems unnecessary when in live action at least the characters have little interaction with each other and it'd be essentially doing the same story over again.

FortuneCookie posted...

Yeah, it's canon or it's not.

Cool. Disney says that The Clone Wars and Rebels are both canon. Problem solved.

You are the one making up arbitrary non-canon definitions here.

Do we really need spoiler tags for a 22 year old Star Wars movie that maybe only one person on GameFAQs hasnt seen?

FortuneCookie posted...

Wicket being named Wicket Wystri Warrick means that the Ewoks cartoon from the 80s is canon.

:/

Nice.

FortuneCookie posted...

In order for something to be canon, it has to have an impact on the continuity.

that is not at all how "canon-ness" works
if the author/owner of the media says a thing is canon, then it's canon. if they say it's not canon, then it's not canon

that's why every single side story/book/comic of the past 40 years could so easily be thrown out as "Non-canon Legends" when disney took over, because they say it's not canon anymore, not because of some arbitrary "it doesn't impact continuity" crap

Yeah, I'd prefer they go the Vader route over Maul. Obi-Wan already kills Maul in Rebels. I think they can make Vader work despite the Episode 4 dialog.

ROBANN_88 posted...

that is not at all how "canon-ness" works
if the author/owner of the media says a thing is canon, then it's canon. if they say it's not canon, then it's not canon

that's why every single side story/book/comic of the past 40 years could so easily be thrown out as "Non-canon Legends" when disney took over, because they say it's not canon anymore, not because of some arbitrary "it doesn't impact continuity" crap

Not to mention what the fuck does "it has to have an impact on the continuity" even mean? Like who the fuck is determining "the continuity"? Regardless I'm pretty sure it isn't FortuneCookie.

Master_Bass posted...

I think they can make Vader work despite the Episode 4 dialog.

I REALLY doubt this. I dont possibly see how this is going to work unless its a Dagobah-cave dream sequence. I mean, even the ending to RotS was stretching it. Because its hard to say that Anakin was still the pupil there when he was pretty much a Master and going toe to toe with Obi Wan. The OT pretty much spells out that Anakin dumped the Jedi as a student and went to train with the Sith. The prequel trilogy kind of sort of plays that out in a its not technically wrong sort of way. But its on shaky ground as it is. I cant imagine this show doing anything but further fucking things up.