Current Events > Now some time has passed. How do you feel about the whole gay cake thing?

(+) Yeah! (+)

For the uninitiated, the issue is people going to Bakeries and asking for a cake for a gay weddings

Bakery says no because they believe God believes homosexuality is wrong and therefore they can't support it in any way

Gay dudes feel discriminated and sued

Both parties think their rights are being violated

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/3/7/AAZiH8AACzVJ.jpg

Got a case in Ireland that's been battered about the courts for years now

Make them the damn cakes before I do it myself

And believe me, I cannot make cake.

a shit business that deserved to have its reputation dragged through the mud, wasn't illegal though. companies have the right to refuse service, if you hate that just remember that the same right got this asshole off twitter.

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump

monkmith posted...

a shit business that deserved to have its reputation dragged through the mud, wasn't illegal though. companies have the right to refuse service, if you hate that just remember that the same right got this asshole off twitter.

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump

This

It's a private business so do they have the right to refuse any service. As a business owner I found it to be extremely stupid, I own run a DJ business and I've done many gay weddings, to be honest the best gigs I've done have been gay weddings. Money is money who cares if they are gay, straight, trans..blah blah blah. You want money, you deal with people from all walks of life.

Discrimination is not OK. Businesses are not people and don't have beliefs, not even a """private business""" (thats somehow open to the public). The rights of the customer > the rights of the business.

Generally a business can refuse service to whoever they wish, however, you cannot be refused service based on race, religion, skin color, sexuality, gender identity or national origin. Therefore the bakery should be making their cake and not refusing to service them based on their sexuality.

So yes bakeries have to follow these same standards as any other business. If they put a sign out front that said "no shirt, no service," and someone walked in without a shirt and they kicked the customer out, the situation would be much, much different.

If you cannot discriminate based on skin color, religion, or disability, then I'm not sure how people justified discriminating based on sexual orientation. I'm sure the same moral arguments were used on all of the former before it became illegal, as well.

It's honestly just an entirely stupid scenario. It's just a cake and that argument goes both ways. I think absolutely everything about weddings is incredibly stupid and this wasteful industry needs to die. Way too many people spending well over 10k on a stupid party.

Also, there were a lot of copy cat "cake victims" that happened after this where gay couples sought out homophobic baker's so they could play victim.

Not to defend the bakers too much though cause refusing to bake a cake for a gay wedding is such a petty ass hill to die on.

The biggest issue here that always gets continually missed is that in the original gay wedding cake drama the bakers actually doxxed the lesbian couple. This resulted in them getting constant streams of harassment and they almost lost their daughter whom was in the midst of the adoption process due to potentially being unable to guarantee her safety. This is why the lesbian couple was awarded so much money. Due to being doxxed not due to cake discrimination.

TommyG663513 posted...

Also, there were a lot of copy cat "cake victims" that happened after this where gay couples sought out homophobic baker's so they could play victim.

Good. Serves the shitty bakeries right for being shitty.

MrPeppers posted...

If you cannot discriminate based on skin color, religion, or disability, then I'm not sure how people justified discriminating based on sexual orientation. I'm sure the same moral arguments were used on all of the former before it became illegal, as well.

I mean, it sounds like they were discriminating based on the event and not so much the people. IDK if they'd refuse to bake a cake for a gay person's birthday party.

This really is a scenario that boggles my mind. Like as a queer person myself, the last thing that would ever worry me is not being able to get a cake for a wedding. Most weddings I've been to don't even do cakes. The last three weddings I went to had donuts, cookies, and ice cream instead of a cake.

Kloe_Rinz posted...

Good. Serves the shitty bakeries right for being shitty.

Yeah IDK I'm a bit more torn on that one. Like I don't approve of these bakeries, but I also don't approve of people fishing for lawsuits so blatantly. It'd be one thing if it was their neighborhood bakery and they had no idea that they'd refuse, but people were seeking out bakeries to "test" and then sue.

You can hate homophobic bakeries AND think gay couples fishing for lawsuits is just stupid.

TommyG663513 posted...

I think absolutely everything about weddings is incredibly stupid and this wasteful industry needs to die. Way too many people spending well over 10k on a stupid party.

I don't see it as a waste. People can spend their money how they see fit, and if someone spends $10k then that's $10k going straight into other peoples' hands. That's a net positive IMO

monkmith posted...

a shit business that deserved to have its reputation dragged through the mud, wasn't illegal though. companies have the right to refuse service, if you hate that just remember that the same right got this asshole off twitter.

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump

companies have a right to refuse service, but not on the grounds of a "protected class", like race, age, religion, etc. that's anti-discrimination laws 101. i believe sexual orientation should be designated as a "protected class" since it's not a choice. versus Trump acting a fool on Twitter, which is entirely a choice.

eston posted...

I don't see it as a waste. People can spend their money how they see fit, and if someone spends $10k then that's $10k going straight into other peoples' hands. That's a net positive IMO

People often don't pay cash for these parties. If it is cash, it tends to be a wealthy parent footing the bill which I don't have a huge problem with. The reality is that many people are taking out loans for this sort of thing and that is beyond stupid. Loans are for things that could either make you money or things that are 100% necessary like a vehicle is for many people.

Anyone taking out a loan to pay for a wedding is being stupid.

funny. most of CE was perfectly ok with or even supported japanese businesses that would not serve certain demographics.

TommyG663513 posted...

People often don't pay cash for these parties. If it is cash, it tends to be a wealthy parent footing the bill which I don't have a huge problem with. The reality is that many people are taking out loans for this sort of thing and that is beyond stupid. Loans are for things that could either make you money or things that are 100% necessary like a vehicle is for many people.

Anyone taking out a loan to pay for a wedding is being stupid.

Agreed, although that seems to be an entirely different point than what you were saying before

ModLogic posted...

funny. most of CE was perfectly ok with or even supported japanese businesses that would not serve certain demographics.

It seems pretty split

UnfairRepresent posted...

It seems pretty split

banana split lol

eston posted...

Agreed, although that seems to be an entirely different point than what you were saying before

It is tied to it.

Marriages are a right. Weddings are not. People equate the celebration with marriage itself. They're incredibly different things.

A better example.of discrimination would be the KY Court clerk who refused to issue gay marriage licenses.

Not baking a cake for a gay wedding is kind of weak. Especially if the baker will make a cake for a gay person, but the gay wedding si where you draw the line.

Not saying it is right to deny the gay couple a cake. I think it is wrong on numerous levels, but the outrage and national attention this story drew was incredibly stupid.

Especially considering the reality of the settlement and the reason people should dislike the bakers is because they doxxed the gay couple. Their doxxing of the gay couple was a significantly bigger issue than anything else that happened in that case.

TommyG663513 posted...

Especially if the baker will make a cake for a gay person, but the gay wedding si where you draw the line.

OK but y tho

You're not elaborating on your opinions
TommyG663513 posted...

Especially considering the reality of the settlement and the reason people should dislike the bakers is because they doxxed the gay couple. Their doxxing of the gay couple was a significantly bigger issue than anything else that happened in that case.

there have been dozens of cases

My opinion was and still is that it depends entirely on if theyd have made the same cake for a straight couple. If they would make it, then it is wrong. If they wouldnt, then it is okay.

Unless the requested cake is obscene in nature or the customers are being unruly, you can't deny service.

Your religion doesn't matter.

Make them the same cake you would any straight couple. It's really simple. You don't need to be involved in the ceremony at all.

Businesses have a right to refuse service, but that's if a customer's being an asshole or something. This is just discrimination and businesses should not be protected for that.

ModLogic posted...

funny. most of CE was perfectly ok with or even supported japanese businesses that would not serve certain demographics.

Got a link to that topic?

TommyG663513 posted...

It is tied to it.

Marriages are a right. Weddings are not. People equate the celebration with marriage itself. They're incredibly different things.

A better example.of discrimination would be the KY Court clerk who refused to issue gay marriage licenses.

Not baking a cake for a gay wedding is kind of weak. Especially if the baker will make a cake for a gay person, but the gay wedding si where you draw the line.

Not saying it is right to deny the gay couple a cake. I think it is wrong on numerous levels, but the outrage and national attention this story drew was incredibly stupid.

Especially considering the reality of the settlement and the reason people should dislike the bakers is because they doxxed the gay couple. Their doxxing of the gay couple was a significantly bigger issue than anything else that happened in that case.

First it was "weddings are stupid and wasteful and the wedding industry needs to die" then it was "taking loans for frivolous things is stupid" and now it's whatever this is. I really have no idea what you're on about dude

Nu_Jersey_Devil posted...

It's a private business so do they have the right to refuse any service. As a business owner I found it to be extremely stupid, I own run a DJ business and I've done many gay weddings, to be honest the best gigs I've done have been gay weddings. Money is money who cares if they are gay, straight, trans..blah blah blah. You want money, you deal with people from all walks of life.

this. If anything the person is not only homophobic and a horrible human being theyre just a flat out fucking idiot. If they were smart they couldve made a fortune promoting this as a benefit and doing cakes for gay weddings

I don't judge a cake for being gay

I believe businesses should (and in fact do) have the right to refuse service. Having a reputation for not being customer friendly, not being flexible with orders, and being potentially discriminatory hurting business is a consequence of that.

However I think there is a difference between refusing to make a cake for a gay customer, and refusing to make a cake celebrating an event you don't agree with. The first should be illegal. I think they should have just made the cake but I understand the hesitation.

I don't support it. I'm not entirely sure where I stand on what the law should be, but I certianly wouldn't look very positively on anyone who chose to continue doing business with them afterwards. I guess the end result is the same anyway - go out of business because the law shuts you down, or go out of business because word of mouth shuts you down - so I don't see it as such a huge deal which way it happens.

...there again, the latter outcome doesn't exactly always play out as it should in some of the more conservative parts of the USA, so perhaps a law really is needed in their case.

gay cake?

I think the whole case comes down to whether you think baking a personalized wedding cake is artistic or not. The baker offered to sell them any pre-made cake in the shop, so he wasn't just refusing his business to gay people. Looking at how elaborate the shit they do on Cake Wars, I think there is a good argument that a wedding cake is art.

And you can't force a painter to paint whatever you want, or a singer to sing whatever you want or write you a song. Creative artists have a right to chose what they sell.

Yes ish.

You can deny based on Idealogy or
for specific design or because they are an asshole etc.. but you cannot refuse service because their gender, orientation, race, height, disability etc.

AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

I think the whole case comes down to whether you think baking a personalized wedding cake is artistic or not. The baker offered to sell them any pre-made cake in the shop, so he wasn't just refusing his business to gay people. Looking at how elaborate the shit they do on Cake Wars, I think there is a good argument that a wedding cake is art.

And you can't force a painter to paint whatever you want, or a singer to sing whatever you want or write you a song. Creative artists have a right to chose what they sell.

It is art. Which is why you need to try to determine if the art they are being asked to make is the issue or is it who the art is for.

monkmith posted...

a shit business that deserved to have its reputation dragged through the mud, wasn't illegal though. companies have the right to refuse service, if you hate that just remember that the same right got this asshole off twitter.

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump

entirely this

Donald Trump wasn't banned from twitter for being gay or having a gay wedding lol.

Imagine fundamentally misunderstanding these things.

A person shouldn't be forced to create a specific type of something that they don't want to create. But they shouldn't refuse to do something they regularly do merely because of the specific type of customer.

As stated before -- if they had cakes and a gay person wanted one, they can't say "No, we don't sell to gay people". That being said, they are within their rights to refuse to make a cake for a gay wedding, but any flak they get for that (lower sales/rep) is also part of their decision.

It's like a tattoo artist refusing to tattoo a nazi symbol on a person. They have a right to say no.

Or they could just

Idk

Make their own. What a stupid hill to die on, fishing for sympathy. You aren't out of options, just bake your own cake or have a gay friend to make one for you. Some Gay people just love immersing themselves in drama just to play victim.

Kloe_Rinz posted...

Discrimination is not OK. Businesses are not people and don't have beliefs, not even a """private business""" (thats somehow open to the public). The rights of the customer > the rights of the business.

Qft. What happens when the only hvac business in town wont fix a furnace because the house is owned by a gay person? You can really tell whos privileged from the responses to this topic.

Blue_Target posted...

nazi

https://youtu.be/6gQOYAp1-oU

hitokoriX posted...

That being said, they are within their rights to refuse to make a cake for a gay wedding

They actually aren't.

TommyG663513 posted...

I mean, it sounds like they were discriminating based on the event and not so much the people. IDK if they'd refuse to bake a cake for a gay person's birthday party.

This really is a scenario that boggles my mind. Like as a queer person myself, the last thing that would ever worry me is not being able to get a cake for a wedding. Most weddings I've been to don't even do cakes. The last three weddings I went to had donuts, cookies, and ice cream instead of a cake.

Are you saying that as queer person, what you find important is what all queer people should find important?

gaminggamer13 posted...

Or they could just

Idk

Make their own. What a stupid hill to die on, fishing for sympathy. You aren't out of options, just bake your own cake or have a gay friend to make one for you. Some Gay people just love immersing themselves in drama just to play victim.

Shouldn't have to. Discrimination isn't ok.

Relient_K posted...

I believe businesses should (and in fact do) have the right to refuse service. Having a reputation for not being customer friendly, not being flexible with orders, and being potentially discriminatory hurting business is a consequence of that.

However I think there is a difference between refusing to make a cake for a gay customer, and refusing to make a cake celebrating an event you don't agree with. The first should be illegal. I think they should have just made the cake but I understand the hesitation.

So it should be legal to refuse to make a cake for a bar mitzvah reception?

Still don't care

Should it be legal to refuse to make a cake with a black couple? With an interracial couple?

You should care.

gaminggamer13 posted...

Or they could just

Idk

Make their own. What a stupid hill to die on, fishing for sympathy. You aren't out of options, just bake your own cake or have a gay friend to make one for you. Some Gay people just love immersing themselves in drama just to play victim.

Is the average person skilled enough to perform every task they might hire someone else to do?