Poll of the Day > Can anyone shoplift things under $500 without consequences now?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Bog.

So on facebook they had a thing that listed secrets employees know. One of them was about Micheals and the fact they won't stop shoplifters at all, and anyone can just walk out with items with no consequences. Others chimmed in and said that was why it was happening so often, because it was getting around on the internet.

This conversation continues and things came out like you won't get prosecuted for shoplifting if the value is less then $500, employees of many stores are told not to touch shoplifters (or try to stop them other then verbally) because they can be sued etc.

The long and short of it is that while some stores will hire actual police officers to wear store uniforms and they are allowed to touch shoplifters to physically restrain them, most do not, and will not, try to stop shoplifters at all.

Considering where I live (Olympia WA) and the HUGE number of homeless (honestly there are usually at least 5-6 around Safeway where I shop the most, but generally almost one on every corner and sometimes on freeway enterances, mc donalds enterances etc), I just can't imagine this policy working here. If all those people could just enter stores, snag food (just enough for a meal, and then leave with no consequences, the stores would lose a ton of money.

Anyone know more about this? (No i'm not planning on shoplifting myself, I'm just curious how the heck this works).

I imagine they just use cameras and report suspected shoplifters to the police

https://youtu.be/-qHQOhi29v4

Nog, I'm figuring like that must be the case, then the police can pick up the homeless who shoplift, but again the question becomes what the point would be if you can't prosecute for anything less than $500. So a homeless dude could go into safeway, get 3 pounds of king crab ($80 a pound) and scarf it all down, and not even get in trouble for it? Seems crazy. Or go to the section that serves cooked food, get chicken/chineese food etc, and just leave and eat it?

Seems crazy to me, there has to be a way to stop that from happening or the hoards would decent, there are tons of homeless around here. It even sounds like refusing to allow someone in the store is pointlesss since you can't physically stop them. Yeah, you could call the cops as soon as you see them, but even if they got there in time, can they actually do anything if it's less then $500 worth of stuff? Seems like a crazy setup, especially around here.

not true

So on facebook they had a thing that listed secrets employees know

here's where you could have stopped to save time

MICHALECOLE posted...

https://youtu.be/-qHQOhi29v4

Lol that is what one of them was complaining about, it wouldn't be so bad if people didn't spread the info around all over the place (I guess like I'm doing right now....lol).

Seriously though I'm curious about this, it's just crazy.

ReturnOfFa posted...

not true

Awesome, but do you have more info? Seriously it sounds crazy to me, but it does make some sense, I figure there is some protections in place, which is why I made this thread, literally because I can't believe it's true and I'm hoping someone has more info about it......

Just saying "Not true" doesn't really help at all.

wolfy42 posted...

Awesome, but do you have more info? Seriously it sounds crazy to me, but it does make some sense, I figure there is some protections in place, which is why I made this thread, literally because I can't believe it's true and I'm hoping someone has more info about it......

Just saying "Not true" doesn't really help at all.

Tis false

Ok, I have found some information by checking the internet.

First the $500 thing is for it to be a felony, any amount can be a misdemeanor, and can cause you to have a criminal record, so there is that.

I'm still doing research but again, anyone who knows more about this, chime in!! I'll probaby find it all out eventually online but real life experience is awesome too.

wolfy42 posted...

Ok, I have found some information by checking the internet.

First the $500 thing is for it to be a felony, any amount can be a misdemeanor, and can cause you to have a criminal record, so there is that.

I'm still doing research but again, anyone who knows more about this, chime in!! I'll probaby find it all out eventually online but real life experience is awesome too.

The legal side is going to vary greatly depending on where you are, since this isn't federal law. I can say that even when I worked retail at Gamestop back in the early 90's they told us to not try and stop shoplifters. Basically we should be out and about on the floor to discourage casual shoplifting, but even if someone set off the alarm on the way out we weren't supposed to do anything.

Ok, so this all varies from state to state like so many things but at least I found the answer for my state and why the hoards are not decending down apon my local safeway etc.

• Theft 3rd Degree or Simple Theft (9A.56.050 or similar city ordinance): The theft of property or services with a value of less than $750. Theft 3rd Degree or simple theft is the charge filed on most Washington shoplifting cases.
• 
  
• Theft 3rd Degree is a Gross Misdemeanor and punishable by a maximum of 364 days in jail and a $5,000 fine. RCW 9.92.020.

So basically ANY theft of ANYTHING under 750$ can get you a 3rd degree theft charge and up to a year in jail and a $5k fine. So yeah, that will def stop your average homless guy from shoplifting. Still a bit more research to do about actually stopping/apprehending shoplifters (since if you can't stop them, they just need to make sure there are no police around and then they can get away with anything. There are so many people living in cars etc, that could just run in, grab food, run out, get in the car and drive away (never to return to that store again), that I would STILL imagine it would be a problem.

There must be more protections but at least now I know that rando people can't just walk in, grab $150 worth of crab and leave with no consequences lol (Hey I love crab!).

I did find this on the web, but I'm still doing research.

In Washington state, retailers are limited by law on how they can respond to shoplifting. "Right now, you can't be stopped until you leave the store," said state Rep. Roger Goodman, Kirkland.Feb 20, 2020

rjsilverthorn posted...

The legal side is going to vary greatly depending on where you are, since this isn't federal law. I can say that even when I worked retail at Gamestop back in the early 90's they told us to not try and stop shoplifters. Basically we should be out and about on the floor to discourage casual shoplifting, but even if someone set off the alarm on the way out we weren't supposed to do anything.

Thank you for adding your experience. That is what I seem to be finding at least in my state. It does vary from state to state, sometimes drastically. This is all very interesting and honestly crazy. The penalty seems huge (you can literally get a year in jail for shoplifting a loaf of bread) but I think that may be due to the fact that shoplifters probably get away with it many times before they are caught.

More to the point if you actually tried to HIDE that you were shoplifting and also just left quickly, the combo would probably ensure you pretty much never were caught because even if they see you, they can't do anything (other then contact the police in most cases).

My gamestops at least don't have most games out for everyone to be able to grab, but keep them behind the counter, so there is that at least. Also gamestop literally lets you return used games within a week, so why would you even shoplift lol.

Here in California if the value is less than $950 it's a misdemeanor. Law enforcement isn't going to put much effort into a misdemenor. If law enforcement doesn't put in the effort there isn't going to be anyone to prosecute. Even if they did, it's just a misdemenor and not much would happen to the thief anyway. Store employees just about everywhere are told not to try and stop them. Many places even threaten to fire enployees if they get involved. The product is insured and someone getting hurt could be very expensive.

So yeah, don't use a weapon, don't hurt anyone and you can shoplift from the same store over and over and over without any real consequences, in most cases. I would see the same people coming in to steal shit on a regular basis when I was doing security at Home Depot.

Generally speaking, major corporations won't bother dealing with a relatively small amount of shoplifting because doing so would cost more than they're losing. Repeat offenders may be banned from the store, but preventing it from happening entails having dedicated security staff that are allowed to accost shoplifters, and that's pretty expensive (mostly for the insurance involved) and usually won't actually save the company that much.

So some more research and as I suspected this is causing serious problems lol.

https://fox17.com/news/nation-world/are-crime-bosses-in-washington-state-paying-shoplifters-to-steal

Seems like they are using the homeless to steal large amounts from retailers because they can get away with it and there is no risk to themselves. That is crazy.

Still doing research, no clue why i'm interested in this but it was just random on facebook and I was like "no way" and the internet seems to be saying "way" so yeah, this is crazy.

I know you said you arent planning to shoplift. But if you ever do plan on doing it, heres a video to help you

https://youtu.be/4Mmj3ReMihM

You can always shoplift if you pay money, they dont care

Bugmeat posted...

Here in California if the value is less than $950 it's a misdemeanor. Law enforcement isn't going to put much effort into a misdemenor. If law enforcement doesn't put in the effort there isn't going to be anyone to prosecute. Even if they did, it's just a misdemenor and not much would happen to the thief anyway. Store employees just about everywhere are told not to try and stop them. Many places even threaten to fire enployees if they get involved. The product is insured and someone getting hurt could be very expensive.

So yeah, don't use a weapon, don't hurt anyone and you can shoplift from the same store over and over and over without any real consequences, in most cases. I would see the same people coming in to steal shit on a regular basis when I was doing security at Home Depot.

That seems to be the case here as well, and it looks like most other states. Kinda a middle finger to those people making min wage or close to it and just barely getting by, since people not working at all can basically just steal whatever they want and live much better. I think the system is broken honestly.

adjl posted...

Generally speaking, major corporations won't bother dealing with a relatively small amount of shoplifting because doing so would cost more than they're losing. Repeat offenders may be banned from the store, but preventing it from happening entails having dedicated security staff that are allowed to accost shoplifters, and that's pretty expensive (mostly for the insurance involved) and usually won't actually save the company that much.

I think I have seen stores with security guards so at least in those cases they probably CAN stop the shoplifters and hold them for the police. Banning from stores could work maybe, especially if it was all stores in the area (otherwise there are just so many of them), even so, there are a ton of different types of grocery stores etc in most areas and if someone is homeless nothing keeps them from must wandering down the road to the next area every day or so, unless ALL safeways for instance had pictures up of all shoplifters ever (and somehow could recognize them with like an advanced computer program and cameras lol) it wouldn't really matter. Even in my area you could literally rotate from safeway to safeway and only hit the same one every week or two.

LinkPizza posted...

I know you said you arent planning to shoplift. But if you ever do plan on doing it, heres a video to help you

https://youtu.be/4Mmj3ReMihM

Lol!!

Woot!! Now I too could shoplift!!!

The opportunities are endless:)

wolfy42 posted...

I think I have seen stores with security guards so at least in those cases they probably CAN stop the shoplifters and hold them for the police. Banning from stores could work maybe,

Nope. That's super rare. Most security is just there as a visual deterrent, especially in a retail location. We are not allowed to get physically involved unless someone is being attacked. Observe and report. That's it. Even the actual loss prevention teams in most places are no longer allowed to put hands on a shoplifter.

Banning them doesn't do squat either. They just come back anyway. If you arentgoing to stop them from stealing then you aren't going to stop them from walking in either.

Bugmeat posted...

Nope. That's super rare. Most security is just there as a visual deterrent, especially in a retail location. We are not allowed to get physically involved unless someone is being attacked. Observe and report. That's it. Even the actual loss prevention teams in most places are no longer allowed to put hands on a shoplifter.
j

That must be so freaking frustrating. We really need to change the laws and find a way to prevent this. It might be partially why the cost of everything is skyrocketing.

I don't see why holding a shop lifter could lead them to be sued, like sure if they beat him half to death but that's not the same as merely holding someone until the police get there

wolfy42 posted...

I think I have seen stores with security guards so at least in those cases they probably CAN stop the shoplifters and hold them for the police

Even places with security frequently just use them as a deterrent rather than actually trying to stop people. Most places just don't tend to have expensive enough stuff sitting out that it is worth the risk when a single liability suit can run into the millions. We just ran a report every month and sent a 'shrinkage' number to corporate and nobody ever said anything. About the only thing they probably use that figure for is deciding if they should close a particular store.

Muscles posted...

I don't see why holding a shop lifter could lead them to be sued, like sure if they beat him half to death but that's not the same as merely holding someone until the police get there

The biggest risk is that trying to stop a shoplifter leads to a confrontation and someone gets injured or killed.

rjsilverthorn posted...

The biggest risk is that trying to stop a shoplifter leads to a confrontation and someone gets injured or killed.

I used to work in law and I can see how that can happen, for instance, if a shop lifter tries to run in your store and falls and hurts himself, they could sue you. If the shoplifter hurts another customer while running away, that customer could sue you. If your employee gets hurt because the shoplifter attacks them, they could sue you etc etc.

So I guess enough people sued that eventually most companies decided the loss of items was not worth the legal cost and or payments they had to make preventing shoplifting.

The simple solution is to not have anyone actually be able to grab merchandise until they pay for it. Basically you choose items and it all gets put into a cart etc (you can even use a kiosk or online from home) and then you receive them all after paying for them.

We already have that available, so if the shoplifting gets crazy, they will probably implement something like that universally.

Theft of items under the value of $950 has been a thing in San Francisco for a while now

rjsilverthorn posted...

The biggest risk is that trying to stop a shoplifter leads to a confrontation and someone gets injured or killed.

Pretty much. Specifically, if the employee that tries to stop them is injured, the workplace will be liable for that unless they have specific policies and measures in place to avoid that risk (namely, telling workers not to confront shoplifters so any efforts to do so are entirely the employee's decision and therefore responsibility). In rare cases, they'll employ security that has their own insurance to cover that possibility, but most of the time, they stand to lose far more by endangering the employee than by recovering relatively low-value products.

There are a lot of correct answers here.

I've worked retail off and on, and yes...if it's under 500 they don't care, but here's the catch:

They keep records via surveillance footage, so once you reach over 1,000 then they will stop you for that say...soda that you're stealing and then show you all the rest that they have proof for and will procecute.

ReaperCloud posted...

There are a lot of correct answers here.

I've worked retail off and on, and yes...if it's under 500 they don't care, but here's the catch:

They keep records via surveillance footage, so once you reach over 1,000 then they will stop you for that say...soda that you're stealing and then show you all the rest that they have proof for and will procecute.

Sweet, that is smart of them. I worked at safeway like 20 years ago and I know they have cameras:)

I imagine most chains have a policy against non-security accosting shoplifters. Pretty sure they call the cops regardless, with the possible exception of black suspects since they don't want the negative PR resulting from something going wrong.

Anecdotally, I've certainly heard retail employees and managers mention being discouraged from touching shoplifters. However, if somebody can confront a shoplifter without touching them -- and the shoplifter doesn't know they're safe like that -- they can walk them somewhere until the cops show.

If it's not a chain, you can be in trouble. Some of those guys might do a lot more than hold you until the police arrive.

Zeus posted...

I imagine most chains have a policy against non-security accosting shoplifters. Pretty sure they call the cops regardless, with the possible exception of black suspects since they don't want the negative PR resulting from something going wrong.

Anecdotally, I've certainly heard retail employees and managers mention being discouraged from touching shoplifters. However, if somebody can confront a shoplifter without touching them -- and the shoplifter doesn't know they're safe like that -- they can walk them somewhere until the cops show.

If it's not a chain, you can be in trouble. Some of those guys might do a lot more than hold you until the police arrive.

Certain states have a law that allows them to accost shoplifters etc. Though it's hard to find a list of which states it is. In those states they have the right to protect themselves and their property.

But yeah, i would imagine it's far more dangerous to shoplift from a small store with just 1 or 2 employees and possible the owner actually being there, then doing so from a chain store/grocery store etc.

This is just 1 more thing that kinda makes it almost easier to be homless (or jobless at least) then to try and work to support yourself, at least if the jobs you qualify for are anywhere near min wage.

In my area not only do they have homeless shelters, but they offer free places for people to live who are homeless etc, and supposedly they are building alot more of them. IF you still needed to try and find a way to feed yourself or get entertainment items like a TV etc, then that would still make your life worse.

Instead, at least it appears like, people with no job/money can literally just walk out of stores with stuff. They can eat better then people who are working at the stores they are shoplifting from, and then return to a place that might be better then most min-wage makers can live at.

It's kinda screwed up.

in CA, people have been doing this lots.

there was a news report about some woman doing it over 100 times.

and stores detaining people runs a risk of being charged. they don't have the authority to detain people

Krazy_Kirby posted...

in CA, people have been doing this lots.

there was a news report about some woman doing it over 100 times.

and stores detaining people runs a risk of being charged. they don't have the authority to detain people

Im pretty sure stores do have the right to detain you if they have probably cause or have personally witnessed you stealing or planning to steal.

pretty sure.

all my legal knowledge is based on audit the audit videos on YouTube.

And Harvey birdman. And phoenix wright.

I guess this must be true for dining and dashing as well, but probably even worse. You can hire security if your a bigger store etc, but it's not like they can do that for places to eat. Seriously this sounds totally broken and at least in areas like where I live, where there are so many people homeless or living out of vans etc (Especially in CA which I think is worse than here), I don't see how this isn't happening constantly.

Seriously I could see it becoming so common it could cause places to close down, or at least require people to pay for their food up front (before they get their food lol). How that hasn't happened yet I don't know.

But yeah, no way they could detain dine and dashers, and could you just imagine all these people coming in and ordering the most expensive things on the menu, alcoholic drinks etc, and then just jetting afterwards?

Cant accuse or attempt to stop a thief regardless of value or you lose your job.

I have never heard of loss and prevention people being actual cops unless it was also a side job for them.

My feeling is the current situation is just temporary and there will be an evolution of some form in the future to prevent this, it just seems.....chaotic to me. I don't think it's sustainable.

yes it's like a video game. you can steal $500 and not get in trouble but stealing $500.01 will instantly give you wanted stars

MICHALECOLE posted...

all my legal knowledge is based on audit the audit videos on YouTube.

I use to watch these quite a bit at one point in my life...

MICHALECOLE posted...

And Harvey birdman. And phoenix wright.

These two are just great!

wolfy42 posted...

require people to pay for their food up front (before they get their food lol). How that hasn't happened yet I don't know.

It probably hasn't gotten that bad yet... And would probably eat into their money, tbh...

MICHALECOLE posted...

Im pretty sure stores do have the right to detain you if they have probably cause or have personally witnessed you stealing or planning to steal.

pretty sure.

all my legal knowledge is based on audit the audit videos on YouTube.

technically kidnapping if you force them to go somewhere.

Krazy_Kirby posted...

technically kidnapping if you force them to go somewhere.

Forcing somebody to go somewhere and detaining them for shoplifting while you wait for the police are two different things

This reminds me of something. I watch porn sometimes, and they have a whole thing on where they detain people for stealing. And they say they won't call the cops if they have sex with them... Most likely illegal, but yeah...

LinkPizza posted...

This reminds me of something. I watch porn sometimes, and they have a whole thing on where they detain people for stealing. And they say they won't call the cops if they have sex with them... Most likely illegal, but yeah...

No thats totally legal. At least thats what the guy who caught me shoplifting told me.

MICHALECOLE posted...

No thats totally legal. At least thats what the guy who caught me shoplifting told me.

Guess I gotta go become mall security now...

MICHALECOLE posted...

Forcing somebody to go somewhere and detaining them for shoplifting while you wait for the police are two different things

is kidnapping

Krazy_Kirby posted...

is kidnapping

Why did you ignore the rest of what I said

MICHALECOLE posted...

Why did you ignore the rest of what I said

Because he likes being wrong.