Current Events > Hawkeye Episode 5 Topic *SPOILERS*

(+) Yeah! (+)

General-Secura posted...

I'm still thinking that the Netflix shows are in an alternate reality. They just brought back D'Onofrio as Kingpin because it was such a beloved portrayal of the character. I mean, you don't hear people saying that J.K. Simmons was playing the same Jonah Jameson from the Raimi trilogy in Spider-Man: Far From Home just because it's the same actor.

The Netflix shows are probably multiverse variants as far as the MCU is concerned.

The Netflix shows were previously mentioned as canon even if theyve never been addressed in the movies; until anyone says otherwise, they still are and nothing contradicts that

MaxEffingBemis posted...

I thought it was the other guy, second in command. Fisk was just the one that set it up because he wanted that guy dead

Either way would've required Fisk to be around.

The fact that Clint even knows Fisk seems to be from his time as Ronin, which was during the 5 years of the Snap.

Yeah, Fisk has to have been around during the blip.

Also, I don't think Laura ever worked for him because I don't think the timeline would match up. Doubt Fisk has been around for the ~20 years that would require. So the watch is still a bit of a question mark

DarthAragorn posted...

Also, I don't think Laura ever worked for him because I don't think the timeline would match up. Doubt Fisk has been around for the ~20 years that would require. So the watch is still a bit of a question mark

That depends if this is the Netflix Fisk or just an alternate version played by the same actor. Laura could have grown up with him, I suppose, but it doesn't really work. If Fisk was an active threat to Laura, I imagine Clint would have murdered him a long time ago, not just gone into hiding.

pegusus123456 posted...

Laura could have grown up with him, I suppose, but it doesn't really work.

After Wilson murdered his father, he was sent to live with "relatives" elsewhere. Laura could have been one of his "relatives".

archedsoul posted...

It's weird that this show is super slow, especially this episode, but it's still a really fun watch.

So I'm guessing the secret about the watch is that Laura used to work for Fisk and she left. Which explains why Clint's family has always been in hiding.

I was gonna say she might be his daughter, but she didnt seem too "omg, dad is gonna find me" about it when he said "big guy".

The theory i like so far is that Laura is Mockingbird and used to be a part of shield.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

Laura is

Nope. That person exists.

CyricZ posted...

Nope. That person exists.

AoS is not cannon to the MCU

CyricZ posted...

Nope. That person exists.

Well in MCU canon not yet.

I love Agents of SHIELD but as far as we know none of it is canon to the MCU

CyricZ posted...

Nope. That person exists.

FWIW, they never call her Mockingbird in the show.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

AoS is not cannon to the MCU

her part might still be, but she's not ever officially referred to as mockingbird (according to other people. i can't remember for sure myself). the title could have also passed from laura to bobbi at some point.

TheGoldenEel posted...

The Netflix shows were previously mentioned as canon even if theyve never been addressed in the movies; until anyone says otherwise, they still are and nothing contradicts that

yeah I believe they are canon cause throughout the multiple series there are references to battle in NY.

another thing regarding canon, just because something gets moved out of MCU/199999 doesn't mean it isn't still important overall. we are entering the MCM era, and it's still tbd just how much from elsewhere will be accessible. (Though i expect we'll have a much better idea of that answer this week, and/or with DS2)

chrono625 posted...

yeah I believe they are canon cause throughout the multiple series there are references to battle in NY.

MCU is canon to it, it isn't canon to MCU.

DarthAragorn posted...

Well in MCU canon not yet.

I love Agents of SHIELD but as far as we know none of it is canon to the MCU

It was canon up until season 6 or whatever. That's when they got into time travel and apparently ended up in a different timeline.

DarthAragorn posted...

MCU is canon to it, it isn't canon to MCU.

source, because based on Hawkeye and leaks for No Way Home doesnt sound like thats the case.

That all being the case, I still don't think they're going to just make another one.

chrono625 posted...

source, because based on Hawkeye and leaks for No Way Home doesnt sound like thats the case.

It's common knowledge at this point. Kevin Feige and the guy in charge of Marvel TV didn't get along. The TV shows acknowledged the movies, the movies never acknowledged the TV shows.

Them deciding to use some actors as the same characters years later does not make the shows canon.

DarthAragorn posted...

Them deciding to use some actors as the same characters years later does not make the shows canon.

nothing needs to make them canon. they were never not canon.

I think it's obvious right now we can't say whether they're canon or not.

The best you can say right now is they're technically canon because multiverse allows anything to be canon in the multiverse.

But if it's not made by Marvel Studios it's not canon to the MCU unless said otherwise, and they've not said otherwise.

DarthAragorn posted...

it's not canon to the MCU unless said otherwise, and they've not said otherwise.

that's the literal opposite of how this works.

Look, find me one reference to the TV shows in anything made by Marvel Studios aside from reusing actors. Do that and I'll say they're canon. Just one.

Look, I wish Coulson was brought back to life, Daisy Johnson existed, and so on, but as of right now none of that happened.

that's not the bar. every single bit was written as being part of the MCU. all of it. they don't need to have a single connection. just said to be set in the same universe. which they all were. so, the bar to remove them is getting retcon'd or getting word of god'd out. the first has, at best, one instance the time travel in AoS, and the second has only a vague statement from KF, and his known issues with his former tv counterpart.

DarthAragorn posted...

Look, find me one reference to the TV shows in anything made by Marvel Studios aside from reusing actors. Do that and I'll say they're canon. Just one.

Look, I wish Coulson was brought back to life, Daisy Johnson existed, and so on, but as of right now none of that happened.

The Netflix shows and AoS were explicitly created as a companion piece to the MCU.

People saying that they were ever officially made non-canon are basing that on pure speculation.

Look I'm not saying they can't do it. I'm saying they probably won't do it because they're not in the habit of erasing old work like that.

Also I better not have to listen to the whining when it turns out Laura isn't someone important and y'all can't deal.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

People saying that they were ever officially made non-canon are basing that on pure speculation.

and they're so adamant about it. i will never understand why so many fans actively try to make sure their experience is made lesser

DarthAragorn posted...

Look, find me one reference to the TV shows in anything made by Marvel Studios aside from reusing actors. Do that and I'll say they're canon. Just one.

Look, I wish Coulson was brought back to life, Daisy Johnson existed, and so on, but as of right now none of that happened.

https://youtu.be/1eT6_x6rvt8

DarthAragorn posted...

Look, find me one reference to the TV shows in anything made by Marvel Studios aside from reusing actors. Do that and I'll say they're canon. Just one.

Look, I wish Coulson was brought back to life, Daisy Johnson existed, and so on, but as of right now none of that happened.

https://youtu.be/9togoJIfSFc

https://youtu.be/vHTUI-rvfvQ

MaxEffingBemis posted...

The reason this show has been so good is that it's rooted in reality. It's normal humans and not superhumans

"superhero media is bad because of superpowers" is the most smooth brain take ever concieved of

Fwiw there is a reference to Laura being someone in her final conversation of the episode with Hawkeye

something like she understands more than anyone the dangers or something like that

theyre clearly setting her up for some kind of reveal

One thing I am curious about is if Hulu shows like Cloak and Dagger and The Runaways also count

Makeveli_lives posted...

https://youtu.be/9togoJIfSFc

https://youtu.be/vHTUI-rvfvQ

The former is a reference to the movies within a TV show, therefore the exact opposite of what I asked for.

The latter is mostly the same and the only reference in a movie to a TV show is just reusing an actor. No indication anything in the TV show actually happened.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

One thing I am curious about is if Hulu shows like Cloak and Dagger and The Runaways also count

Runaways, AoS, and Wandavision all had the Darkhold which makes me think they're not.

Yall should stay off YouTube and any video hosting site. There are spoilers up for no way home.

and they will pop up even if youre not searching anything related to it.

Rharyx211 posted...

I do feel bad for Spidey, having all his best villains going to Daredevil/Hawkeye, only being interested in Tony Stark, or already been taken by previous Spideys.

They did a damn good job with Vulture and Mysterio though.

chrono625 posted...

Yall should stay off YouTube and any video hosting site. There are spoilers up for no way home.

and they will pop up even if youre not searching anything related to it.

probably yahoo, too. i haven't seen anything there yet, but i see something spoiling the tv show episodes within a few hours almost every week.

i am surprised clint didn't say anything about kate's "thanos was right" mug in episode 4

PatrickMahomes posted...

i am surprised clint didn't say anything about kate's "thanos was right" mug in episode 4

I imagine it belongs to her aunt.

pegusus123456 posted...

I imagine it belongs to her aunt.

fair but still surprised he didn't say anything

although now that i think about it, he never did actually see thanos, right? in infinity war he wasn't in the movie at all, and in endgame he was busy being ronin and then in the final fight was kinda buried and trying to get the gauntlet back up above ground but never did seem to be involved in the final fight after that

PatrickMahomes posted...

although now that i think about it, he never did actually see thanos, right?

I feel like he must've been shown images of him, maybe from Nebula's projector eye, during their pre-time travel brainstorm meeting.

Might've caught a glimpse of him during the final battle too.

General-Secura posted...

I'm still thinking that the Netflix shows are in an alternate reality. They just brought back D'Onofrio as Kingpin because it was such a beloved portrayal of the character. I mean, you don't hear people saying that J.K. Simmons was playing the same Jonah Jameson from the Raimi trilogy in Spider-Man: Far From Home just because it's the same actor.

The Netflix shows are probably multiverse variants as far as the MCU is concerned.

False, Marvel/Disney has always said the Netflix shows take place in the same universe and have even referenced the events of the movies.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/7/0/AAYofGAACtHO.jpg

So now with Kingpin being clearly confirmed, let's talk his future in the MCU. Almost definitely will carry over to Echo, considering there's only like 50 minutes of Hawkeye left. Or he could be sent to prison by the end of this, then break out near the end of Echo. Then villain in Spider-Man 4?

Like, come on. Can't introduce him to the MCU proper and not have him go against Spider-Man once.

PoundGarden posted...

False, Marvel/Disney has always said the Netflix shows take place in the same universe and have even referenced the events of the movies.

Its a one way street though, the movies dont reference the shows and I believe Netflix still owns the rights to the stories of the shows, so Marvel can't use the story, without paying Netflix something, but can get the actors for the characters.

Tbh I think soft reboots will overall work fine for the Netflix characters.

Similar to how Star Wars handled the EU back in the day. If it fits? Then yeah sure all that happened. Why not? If something contradicts then it's the movies and the D+ shows that take priority.

I really hope they bring back Jessica Jones. She would fit in pretty well with the current street level line up and that show was sort of robbed of being a 'PI in a superhero universe' feel after the first season.

General-Secura posted...

I'm still thinking that the Netflix shows are in an alternate reality. They just brought back D'Onofrio as Kingpin because it was such a beloved portrayal of the character. I mean, you don't hear people saying that J.K. Simmons was playing the same Jonah Jameson from the Raimi trilogy in Spider-Man: Far From Home just because it's the same actor.

The Netflix shows are probably multiverse variants as far as the MCU is concerned.

You don't hear that because we knew from the get-go it's a different continuity. We don't know that here.

The one thing that doesnt track (and honestly never worked if the Netflix universe was part of the MCU) is that kingpin would be some big scary threat to Hawkeye; but that the literal gods in the avengers would just let him continue to operate (and be a threat to Hawkeyems family)

I really thought this would stop the non-canon weirdos but I guess literally nothing will convince them. The shit is eternal.

Garioshi posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/7/0/AAYofGAACtHO.jpg

Lmfao