Current Events > this sums up LGBT characters in shows well

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://boybutgenderneutrally.tumblr.com/post/665285731463413760/you-are-allowed-to-dislike-steven-universe-and

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Yes, it does. Straight/Cisgender people often complain about LGBTQ+ representation as if it's for them. This goes for all forms of representation.

As a gay person it's very comforting and reassuring to have representation on screen.

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Well said!

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I'm to tired to read all that right now, but Steven universe and She-Ra were both amazing. Being LGBT wasn't the character, the character was simply LGBT. And that's how it works in real life too.
More of that will always be welcome to me.

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I'm going to complain when a show makes a big deal out of a LGBT character and then also complain when a character is LGBT without it "mattering to the story".

Then I'll go into an online discussion and swear that I'd have no problem with LGBT representation if they just "did it right".

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That's great and all, but the author is trying to present a rational argument to people that are irrational. There's not really any room for nuance in "should gay people exist?"

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"Felix/Flame ~ bisexual, greyromantic, ftm minor ~ Andrew Rannells & Christian (malewife) Borle fan ~ autistic ~ main fandoms are amrev and Falsettos"

Jesus Christ

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Hammerlock from borderlands is a great gay guy character guy

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AmericaTheBrave posted...

"Felix/Flame ~ bisexual, greyromantic, ftm minor ~ Andrew Rannells & Christian (malewife) Borle fan ~ autistic ~ main fandoms are amrev and Falsettos"

Jesus Christ

I agree with the gist of his post but what the fuck is a greyromantic?

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I like shows that focus more on the story than someones sexual orientation. Its ok to have gay/bi characters but dont make a big deal out of it.

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The Wheelman1 posted...

I like shows that focus more on the story than someones sexual orientation. Its ok to have gay/bi characters but dont make a big deal out of it.

i can't think of a single show that has "focused" on someone's sexuality, especially in children's media

There's value to representation in media, but people really exaggerate this.

It's much better for people to feel welcome to be how they are through no threat of hostility for any manner of being. It's much better to have great role models in your life. It's much better to feel represented by peers as well as authority figures. It's much better to not rely (or reduce when possible) on personal validation from media.

There are also better and worse examples of representation being enacted in media. Ultimately, the quality of the character needs to come first rather than the need for this character to be a representation. Both can obviously be achieved, but it isn't a given.

IamtheViking posted...

There's value to representation in media, but people really exaggerate this.

It's much better for people to feel welcome to be how they are through no threat of hostility for any manner of being. It's much better to have great role models in your life. It's much better to feel represented by peers as well as authority figures. It's much better to not rely (or reduce when possible) on personal validation from media.

You do realize there are people who have none of this in real life? This sounds like such a tone-deaf take to be completely honest with you.

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She-Ra's gay in the remake?

I thought she was knocking boots with her brother.

Scintillant posted...

You do realize there are people who have none of this in real life? This sounds like such a tone-deaf take to be completely honest with you.

Yes and representation in media will never just be all anyone needs in life.

It's much more of a surface level issue that really only treats symptoms rather than root causes.

I never said there isn't value in media representation. It generally seems to be done with a benevolent purpose, but sometimes the desire for better representation ends up outweighing the quality of the character.

IamtheViking posted...

Yes and representation in media will never just be all anyone needs in life.

Nobody has ever claimed this so why are you arguing against a strawman?

IamtheViking posted...

but sometimes the desire for better representation ends up outweighing the quality of the character.

So here's my problem with this statement. It assumes that a poorly done character is poor due to a focus on representation. As opposed to merely being badly written, which happens to a lot of characters regardless of the group they belong to. However, nobody ever cites too much focus on straight, white males as the cause of a poorly done character.

vi and cait from arcane are the best gay couple in media imo

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i would have killed for a role model like shiro growing up

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lolife67 posted...

Nobody has ever claimed this so why are you arguing against a strawman?

So here's my problem with this statement. It assumes that a poorly done character is poor due to a focus on representation. As opposed to merely being badly written, which happens to a lot of characters regardless of the group they belong to. However, nobody ever cites too much focus on straight, white males as the cause of a poorly done character.

Because you'd never make a straight white male character to be a straight white male character. Sometimes certain characters try to sell their identity rather than something more specific about them. Certainly, there are also examples of characters who happen to possess any sort of non majority identity whose fault as a character lay outside how their representation is depicted. As you said, sometimes a badly written character is a badly written character and however their representation is portrayed is just irrelevant to that point.

Characters do get criticized for playing stereotypes, being one note, or perhaps being unrealistic. I don't see why failing to function as a fair representation of a group can't be one as well.

cuh posted...

Yes, and to the haters:

Lmfaooo omg

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IamtheViking posted...

Because you'd never make a straight white male character to be a straight white male character.

Lol what? Um, that's exactly what they've done since, forever really. Do you think it's just a coincidence so many characters are straight white males?

IamtheViking posted...

Characters do get criticized for playing stereotypes, being one note, or perhaps being unrealistic. I don't see why failing to function as a fair representation of a group can't be one as well.

It can be but that's not the criticism that typically gets leveled at them. It's generally more "This character sucked and this is why SJWs ruin everything." They conflate a bad character with diversity/representation, regardless of the actual reasons the character was bad.

lolife67 posted...

Lol what? Um, that's exactly what they've done since, forever really. Do you think it's just a coincidence so many characters are straight white males?

It can be but that's not the criticism that typically gets leveled at them. It's generally more "This character sucked and this is why SJWs ruin everything." They conflate a bad character with diversity/representation, regardless of the actual reasons the character was bad.

No you've misunderstood.

There is no single stereotypical "straight white male character"
There are various examples of "forced example of representation character"

There are other bad stereotypical characters of various types that happen to be straight white male characters. They'd get called hack or terrible characters rather than criticized as a form of representation. That's because you have a bunch of characters representing that.

The reality with writing any sort of character is there is typically something about their personality that needs to be compelling. Failure to do so can be attributed to any number of things partially or wholly.

I don't necessarily agree with judging a character as SJW exactly, but the reality is that there's gonna be a variety in the quality of how characters are written. Statistically speaking, you will get characters that are poorly executed. I'm sure the ones crying SJW aren't being entirely fair in their criticisms, but that doesn't mean that poorly executed characters mean to promote diversity don't exist either.

viking list examples of forced representation

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FortuneCookie posted...

She-Ra's gay in the remake?

I thought she was knocking boots with her brother.

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FortuneCookie posted...

She-Ra's gay in the remake?

I thought she was knocking boots with her brother.

WTF gave you the idea she is into incest? @FortuneCookie

She ends up with Catra.

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Illuminoius posted...

i can't think of a single show that has "focused" on someone's sexuality

You never watched Married with Children?

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AceMos posted...

viking list examples of forced representation

We all know that any example he gives you will disagree with though but I am interested in whoever he says as the only one I can think of would be Korra from what I heard.

IamtheViking posted...

There are various examples of "forced example of representation character"

Give me 3 as examples so I understand what you mean. Because from what I've seen, the complaints aren't about how the character is represented, at all. Right now it looks like you're just playing Devil's Advocate and purposely ignoring the many more examples of people complaining using "representation" as a catch-all for bad writing.

lorddrakath1522 posted...

We all know that any example he gives you will disagree with though but I am interested in whoever he says as the only one I can think of would be Korra from what I heard.

Korra wasnt forced.

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spikethedevil posted...

Korra wasnt forced.

It really wasn't.

lolife67 posted...

It really wasn't.

Glad we agree.

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spikethedevil posted...

Glad we agree.

Definitely. And the irony is the people complaining are saying that there was no build up. But if there had been even more overt things, they'd complain it was too focused on her sexuality.

Turbam posted...

This is one of the reasons I don't like this ship.

lolife67 posted...

Definitely. And the irony is the people complaining are saying that there was no build up. But if there had been even more overt things, they'd complain it was too focused on her sexuality.

True, theyre was definite hints in Books 3 and 4. I fully recommend the two comic book sequel trilogies as well.

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The Wheelman1 posted...

I like shows that focus more on the story than someones sexual orientation. Its ok to have gay/bi characters but dont make a big deal out of it.

Define "making a big deal out of it"

You have people who say gay characters just acting the same as straight characters in a relationship (i.e. showing affection, getting married, etc.) is "forcing it down their throat".
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lolife67 posted...

This is one of the reasons I don't like this ship.

Is it a ship if its canon?

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spikethedevil posted...

Is it a ship if its canon?

Oh, I didn't know the term only referred to non-canon relationships.

Im not sure if it does or doesnt lol.

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Dont care if a character is LGBT or not. If it's a bad character it's a bad character. If it's a good character it's a good character.

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They have a point, the author I mean

Can we just tone it down a notch with the hyper labeling tho, damn

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lolife67 posted...

This is one of the reasons I don't like this ship.

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spikethedevil posted...

WTF gave you the idea she is into incest? @FortuneCookie

She ends up with Catra.

I was talking about the original cartoon. There are lot of unintentional moments. She'd often wink after making statements or hug her brother -- which isn't odd in itself except that he's always bare chested and she wears a low trim outfit meaning they get chest to chest a lot.

FortuneCookie posted...

I was talking about the original cartoon. There are lot of unintentional moments. She'd often wink after making statements or hug her brother -- which isn't odd in itself except that he's always bare chested and she wears a low trim outfit meaning they get chest to chest a lot.

Ah fair enough.

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IamtheViking posted...

Yes and representation in media will never just be all anyone needs in life.

It's much more of a surface level issue that really only treats symptoms rather than root causes.

i agree, but i dont think anyone in this thread is claiming that representation is all anyone needs. representation is one of many positive steps towards normalization

i dont think it can be stressed enough how recent it was that things began to turn with positive representation of LGBT characters in media meant for younger people. the idea that its still being treated in a gatekeeping nitpicky manner, often by people who arent lgbt in any way, is just another piece of proof that it's a department that needs to continue to be worked on

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@IamtheViking you still not have given a example of ofrced diversity

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The_Hat posted...

And that's how it works in real life too.

aside from some of these tumblr blogs*. The crystal gems are more like actual people than some of the stuff in there >_>

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I don't like that persona 3 makes all female social links turn romantic
I like to role-play my personal Mc as a closeted homosexual and you can't do that in 3 unless you never interact with the girls.

This way of playing is the only way the accomplice ending in persona 4 golden makes sense

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yusiko posted...

don't like that persona 3 makes all female social links turn romantic

if i remember correctly the guy that wrote persona 3 had an interview where he basically said he thought it was impossible for guys and girls to just be really close friends

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