Current Events > What do you think about fandoms who try and force characters to be LGBT??

(+) Yeah! (+)

Hmm??

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You mean shippers specifically

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Mahiru Koizumi is 100% lesbian, I will hear no other viewpoints.

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I just dont care. I go by what is presented in the story, not fan fiction.

If some people like pretending Gon and Killua are gay more power to them its whatever

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I remember Supergirl fans were sending death threats to the writers/actors of the show because they didn't make Kara & Lena a thing

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They're doing the lord's work. I hope they don't stop until every character is L, G, B, and/or T.

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Solidarity

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idgaf

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I'm that rare bird who generally doesn't care for romance in my entertainment media. Basically every action movie ever would be 20 minutes shorter if they dropped the forced romance sub plot.

So truly idgaf about a characters sexuality

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i love them for helping to finally make destial canon

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I think there's a scale. Like it goes from entertaining to insanely cringe. Some people get weird about it

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yusiko posted...

i love them for helping to finally make destial canon

Kind of anyway.

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no one will ever be able to convince me piers from resident evil 6 is straight
i love him

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They're morons, but meh, whatever.

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I don't see any reason to think of them as all that different from any other shipper. Many shippers of non LGBT romance don't exactly aim for realistic couples within the frame of that story to ship. It seems like a fun game to people.

That being said, Star Wars Execs should have listened to the wealth of shippers for Poe and Finn, because they would've made a great gay couple.

SSJ2GrimReaper posted...

I remember Supergirl fans were sending death threats to the writers/actors of the show because they didn't make Kara & Lena a thing

I don't agree with death threats, but I do wish that Ship had been real. I'm really pissed off they never went there. Those 2 had so much sexual tension

everyone is pan until explicitly stated otherwise. everything's just easier that way.

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IamtheViking posted...

I don't see any reason to think of them as all that different from any other shipper. Many shippers of non LGBT romance don't exactly aim for realistic couples within the frame of that story to ship. It seems like a fun game to people.

This.

Zikten posted...

I don't agree with death threats, but I do wish that Ship had been real. I'm really pissed off they never went there. Those 2 had so much sexual tension

This too. Kara had more chemistry with Lena than she did with her real life husband lol

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pegusus123456 posted...

This too. Kara had more chemistry with Lena than she did with her real life husband lol

wasnt her real life husband the guy in season 1 that was also in glee with her? and wasnt he the one that beat her so badly she lost vision in one of her eyes?

yeah i wouldnt expect her to have much on screen chemistry with someone like that

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idc what they do as long as theyn dont harass anyone over it

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yusiko posted...

wasnt her real life husband the guy in season 1 that was also in glee with her? and wasnt he the one that beat her so badly she lost vision in one of her eyes?

Yes but I was talking about the guy that played Mon-El.

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pegusus123456 posted...

Yes but I was talking about the guy that played Mon-El.

i loved mon-el
totally shipped them
i gotta finish all the arrowverse shows. im restarting from the beginning with arrow

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I think they're good

IamtheViking posted...

I don't see any reason to think of them as all that different from any other shipper. Many shippers of non LGBT romance don't exactly aim for realistic couples within the frame of that story to ship. It seems like a fun game to people.

That being said, Star Wars Execs should have listened to the wealth of shippers for Poe and Finn, because they would've made a great gay couple.

If Star Wars execs actually listened to the fans then neither Poe or Finn would have existed in the first place.

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Characters is one thing but I've seen a lot of trans people super adamant that Kurt Cobain was a trans woman lately. Nothing but love for the trans community, and hey, it's possible, but that just seems so weird to assume/declare about a dead person with no explicit evidence for it.

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yusiko posted...

wasnt her real life husband the guy in season 1 that was also in glee with her? and wasnt he the one that beat her so badly she lost vision in one of her eyes?

yeah i wouldnt expect her to have much on screen chemistry with someone like that

ex husband if its the guy who beat her up.


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LGBT people usually have to look to things like that for representation given the lack of it otherwise.

And there are often hints here and there. A lot of people assume that every single character is straight until 100% proven otherwise, even if the character is implied to be LGBT, and they'll get mad at anyone suggesting anything else.

Ultimately, shipping and whatnot isn't for me, but I understand why people do it, and I think it's really silly when people get mad if you suggest that characters with unconfirmed sexualities and with hints that might point to them being LGBT, could be LGBT.

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Shoppers can pair whoever they want. It doesn't bother me one bit.

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Gamerguymass posted...

If Star Wars execs actually listened to the fans then neither Poe or Finn would have existed in the first place.

True only episodes four, five and six would exist.

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SSJPurple posted...

I just dont care. I go by what is presented in the story, not fan fiction.

If some people like pretending Gon and Killua are gay more power to them its whatever

Killua's parasocial dependence on Gon makes more sense if he's gay imo

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Doe posted...

Killua's parasocial dependence on Gon makes more sense if he's gay imo

the author of hunter x hunter also made yu yu hakusho and is married to the woman who created sailor moon
both are very LGBT friendly so he could easily make killua gay if he wanted to
apparently he once said he thinks gay characters are more interesting to write for and once tried to make a shonen sports series about a group of cross dressing boys forming a soccer team but his publisher wouldnt let him

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Vyrulisse posted...

I think there's a scale. Like it goes from entertaining to insanely cringe. Some people get weird about it

Pretty much this for shipping in general. As long as people don't get weird about it, who cares?

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It depends on the fandom, their demeanor and the way they're doing it.

Real-person shipping is an instant "no", like what happens in stan culture. Two of the One Direction guys apparently had their friendship fall apart because any time they showed any sort of affection for each other, One Direction stans would explode with this rumour about them dating and shit. Imagine any time you hang out with your best friend and someone goes "holy shit they're so fucking cute I want them to have s*x and falling love oh my god my little heart canrr take it" - that shit would probably impact how much you want to spend around your friends.

You also have white K-pop stans whose strong affection for their preferred artist often manifests with them infantilizing them, which has this really uncomfortable racist undertone. Everything they do is phrased like "these two soft baby purebois", right down to their perceived queer love where they're characterised by fans as like young teenagers having their very first crush despite essentially being 20+ year old show business veterans who are on the clock 24 hours a day.

It doesn't ring to me of a genuine appreciation of queerness, but the fetishization of queerness. And it always has this edge to it that's like "it's okay if these two men are in love or having sex because it's pure and wonderful and makes my heart swell up with joy, but if I ever met a queer person I'd be afraid of them hitting on me and/or I'd call them a slur". As far as real person shipping goes, especially in regards to stan culture, I think this behaviour is rotten. I can sympathize with queer folks who see the spark of what they are in these performers, and I would hope that this space is good for them on some level, but I feel like a bulk of the shipping in stan culture comes from a really rotten place.

There's a term for this that comes from anime and manga culture - fujoshi. It translates to "rotten girl", and it essentially describes a boy's love fan whose fan input basically consists of fetishizing gay men. Stuff like the intense "die for our ship" behavior and general shitty fan entitlement with ships like Sora/Riku from Kingdom Hearts comes to mind. You also have people whose intense fixation on the most recent Voltron show had them comparing the showrunners to Nazi war criminals, pressuring them into canonising these intensely debated ships at the risk of the fans calling the creators queerbaiters and performative homophobes and shit. Voltron literally got to the point where people were saying "make these characters get together or we'll collectively brand you all as bigots".

HOWEVER


And this is a big "however", because I've talked a LOT of shit about shippers

A majority of queer shipping, regardless of the canon sexuality of the characters, is perfectly fine and harmless. Even when it becomes popular enough for the creators to comment on it, even when people want it to become canon.

Voltron and stan culture are notable examples of what you're talking about, but they're significant outliers. Fujoshis and other people who fetishize queerness do exist, but they make up a minority of fans and as people find the language to better articulate what they want to say, the conversation evolves. And what's more, as LGBTQIA+ stuff becomes more mainstream and more integrated in the broader cultural conversation, fujoshis and stuff are decreasing because people are able to say "this way you're expressing your attraction for these gay characters is really unhealthy and makes people uncomfortable, let's unpack what your deal is and we can go from there".

For example, Thasmin - the pairing of the Thirteenth Doctor and Yasmin Khan from the most recent run of Doctor Who. It has a couple scenes that could hint at an attraction between them, but you could just see it as a strong devotion to uphold the Doctor's code of conduct from a character who's bought into her mythos. Whether you ship it or not, the ship is completely benign, as is a majority of ships that isn't signalled by an army of stans ready to jump to heinous extremes as an expression of their fandom.

And stuff like Korra dating Asami or the recent Owl House pairing have genuinely been great steps forward for wlw representation. And while there are some people whose appreciation of queerness is skin-deep and shaped exclusively through shipping goggles rather than an earnest appreciation or expression of allyship for the queer community, it mostly manifests in the loudest and most toxic minorities of gigantic mega-fandoms. The majority of fans - the majority of shippers of those ships, for that matter - are not that bad.

Like we're not all as riled up as a rika_furude or a Scotty_Rogers. They definitely exist, and when they go out of their way to be callous and rude it might make you feel shitty. But how many of them are there compared to the people who actually want to have a conversation? The issue isn't so much the format itself, but the bad faith actors who take shit too far and ruin the format for everyone else. The same goes for shippers - hate the bad shit, but understand that not all of it is bad shit and the people you probably dislike the most don't represent the broader community.

So to summarise:

There's a lot of significant baggage in regards to fandoms who virulently and aggressively lobby for queer pairings, a lot of it rooted in fetishization and infantilization, and that goes back a long time and is worth mentioning - but as the conversation surrounding the queer community and representation has grown over time and gotten more mature, we're seeing more reasonable discourse emerge.

While there's still immensely vitriolic fans making asses of themselves and fucking up the conversation for everyone else, it doesn't represent the majority of people who ship characters as queer. For the most part, outside of the extreme stuff I was talking about, fandom picking up a headcanon about a character's sexuality is fine and doesn't hurt anyone - if you disagree, all you have to do is stay in your own fan corner and do your own thing, and it's none of anyone else's business what you choose to believe.

To further summarise:

Shit's fucked up sometimes, but by and large it's a perfectly benign practice that isn't inherently negative.

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Gamerguymass posted...

If Star Wars execs actually listened to the fans then neither Poe or Finn would have existed in the first place.

Nah, Finn was great. He was robbed in episodes 8 and 9, but he was fantastic in 7 and I thought he and Daisy Ridley had amazing chemistry. The fact that they made her in love with Psycho Emo Boy was like a megaton punch in the dick, shit sucked

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Same as shipping in general - youre fine as long as you arent bothering anybody about it.

SSJ2GrimReaper posted...

I remember Supergirl fans were sending death threats to the writers/actors of the show because they didn't make Kara & Lena a thing

that would have made me start watching again.

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Foppe posted...

Lol context?

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I'm not a fan of this trend with fans.

yusiko posted...

pegusus123456 posted...

Yes but I was talking about the guy that played Mon-El.

i loved mon-el
totally shipped them
i gotta finish all the arrowverse shows. im restarting from the beginning with arrow

Seasons 2, 4, 6, and 7 make it worthwhile.
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Its ridiculous. The creator the the character decides. If you dont like the answer, then make your own show/movie/game etc..

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Doe posted...

Lol context?

Marvel decided to take the old X-Men team from the past and put them at modern time with the then current time version of themselves.
They also decided to turn young Iceman homosexual and that was how they revealed it.

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Nothing should be forced

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Doe posted...

Lol context?

"Bobby, do you think I'm hot?"
"No."
"That's 'cuz you're gay."
"What?"
'You're gay."
"Oh."

Essentially.

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MrMallard posted...

Nah, Finn was great. He was robbed in episodes 8 and 9, but he was fantastic in 7 and I thought he and Daisy Ridley had amazing chemistry. The fact that they made her in love with Psycho Emo Boy was like a megaton punch in the dick, shit sucked

He was a shit character played by an even bigger shit actor.

And you obviously didn't understand what I wrote. If the execs listened to Star Wars fans in the first place then we would have had actual Star Wars sequels, not whatever the hell Disney did that made no damn sense given the events of Return of the Jedi. Thus these characters wouldn't have existed or maybe Poe would have as a new Wedge like character, but his character would have been different.

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Gamerguymass posted...

He was a shit character played by an even bigger shit actor.

What do you have against John Boyega? Not his fault the character of Finn sucked.

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Hambo the Hog posted...

They're doing the lord's work. I hope they don't stop until every character is L, G, B, and/or T.

Boy, that would sure change some stories, wouldnt it?

Children of Men: Why are there no children?

Uh, duh.

Oh, right

The End

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Ivynn posted...

What do you have against John Boyega? Not his fault the character of Finn sucked.

But it's his fault he is a terrible actor.

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Gamerguymass posted...

But it's his fault he is a terrible actor.

He's not a terrible actor tho. Do you just dislike him as a person?

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Just dropping in to say that fandoms are usually stupid, especially the Star Wars fandom. But the shipping stuff seems largely self-contained.

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