Poll of the Day > Geee... I wonder why there's a labour shortage...

(+) Yeah! (+)

BEERandWEED posted...

Walmart is a plague on society. Don't shop there.

It's telling how capitalism expects the weakest members of society to bandage up its shortcomings

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papercup posted...

We will NOT have communism in America. Not on my watch. If you want a workforce you need to pay them. Stop endorsing communism, it won't work. Pay. Your. Workers.

Communism requires citizens to live off the government, like staying at home collecting welfare.

BEERandWEED posted...

Communism requires citizens to live off the government, like staying at home collecting welfare.

Im pretty sure people still have to work

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DirtBasedSoap posted...

Im pretty sure people still have to work

They just have to submit to the will of their government overlords.

I prefer the Corporate Overlords myself

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BEERandWEED posted...

Businesses do pay livable wages to employees that earn it.

But not to the employees that can't earn it because the business is run so poorly that the positions in question don't generate a livable wage worth of value. Why do businesses that are run so poorly deserve to exist?

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adjl posted...

Why do businesses that are run so poorly deserve to exist?

I don't recall saying they do.

BEERandWEED posted...

Communism requires citizens to live off the government, like staying at home collecting welfare.

That's what I'm saying man. Businesses need to pay their workers. See you're starting to get it.

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papercup posted...

Businesses need to pay their workers.

They do as long as you actually work.

BEERandWEED posted...

They do as long as you actually work.

a livable wage

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PeterPumpknhead posted...

a livable wage

Work for it. Don't just look at your phone all day.

BEERandWEED posted...

Communism requires citizens to live off the government, like staying at home collecting welfare.

why are you just making things up about communism

there are plenty of ways to be critical of communism without just pulling things out of your ass

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BEERandWEED posted...

Work for it. Don't just look at your phone all day.

you dont know my life or anyone elses

dont act like you do

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DirtBasedSoap posted...

the rise of r/antiwork is suspicious to me. never seen a sub take off like that so suddenly . a lot of the stories seem really fake

They are. It's basically an updoot factory at this point.

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OhhhJa posted...

I think the idea is that a lot of people will gladly sit at home if they have just enough to survive as opposed to actually working a job that would net them a fair amount more income. Not everyone is like that but some folks are

i see no problem with that

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Naysaspace posted...

They are. It's basically an updoot factory at this point.

Ive been subbed to it for years, it has just gotten popular since the pandemic and every sub that becomes popular quickly goes through some weird shit

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BEERandWEED posted...

Work for it. Don't just look at your phone all day.

Sounds like elitist bourgeoisie talk to me.

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SunWuKung420 posted...

There isn't a labor shortage. There's an abundance of entitled people not willing to work because of covid checks.

This.

Zareth posted...

If you can make more money by not working than working, then maybe employers need to step up their game

lolwut? Makes no fucking sense. The government can always outspend companies because it can just print money with little regard for the economics involved.

However, it's worth noting that even local government jobs had been (and are likely still) going unfilled because the state & federal government had been paying people more to not work.

papercup posted...

It's really telling about the state of wages in America when the $1000 stimulus checks every 6 months is more money than working a job.

lolwut? The federal bonus was $600/week in addition to whatever they made on state, which could be over $1k/week (combined) even in places where wages were around $400~500/week that have low COLs. And that's before you add in the benefits they'd qualify for by not working.

But if you think this is somehow a good thing, just have the government give everybody $100k/year so that nobody works, and see how well that works out.

papercup posted...

So offer more money than welfare pays out?

...many employers struggle to pay workers in the first place. A lot of business owners work 6-7 days a week to cover shifts right right. That's why there was a lot of pushback on things like CT's blue laws, which hurt mom & pop liquor stores that had to stay open but couldn't afford to cover those shifts and wasn't actually getting much added business for that extra day because people generally just bought ahead anyway.

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papercup posted...

Sounds like elitist bourgeoisie talk to me.

Those people don't work. They own walmarts and the such.

All these people that want to live in society without actively participating. SMH

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Muscles posted...

Not trying to defend sunny, but why can't you be zen and believe in personal responsibility?

what

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BEERandWEED posted...

I don't recall saying they do.

The businesses that are struggling to find workers are overwhelmingly the ones paying sub-living wages and resisting the idea of paying more. Those sub-living wages also are overwhelmingly not a matter of employees not actually doing work while on the job, they're a result of poor management and a broken economy that undervalues labour.

Zeus posted...

...many employers struggle to pay workers in the first place.

Then why should those employers remain in business?

Zeus posted...

lolwut? Makes no f***ing sense. The government can always outspend companies because it can just print money with little regard for the economics involved.

While true, this ignores one very important point: The government's not trying to compete with anyone. They're just trying to make sure people can get by in a time when businesses that are supposed to be doing so are doing a pretty terrible job of it. It doesn't matter that the government can hypothetically pay people more not to work than businesses can to work, because that's not the goal at all.

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I wouldn't call what's going on in America 'Capitalism'. It may have once been capitalism but it's been long-since crushed. What's here now is something I call 'Corporatism'.

In capitalism a bunch of individuals/groups compete with each other to provide ideal services with the free market weeding the failures out and promoting the successes. Anyone, no matter how 'common', can potentially succeed or at least do well through hard work, merit, and the like.

In corporatism a bunch of overly-powerful companies monopolize the market, stifling out smaller businesses by sheer weight since they can't hope to compete against the lower prices and/or wider selection. Bad practices aren't just allowed to survive but flourish so long as they earn the CEO's money. Being abusive to employees and customers is entirely fine since there's basically no competition. Common folk have very little choice with most having to take low-end positions in the company simply to survive. Success is not through merit, hard work only results in minor (at best) raises (if anything at all), and promotions are decided almost purely through nepotism and sucking up, not through any degree of merit.

It's kind of like what happened in the MMO space. There used to be a bunch with a lot of varied concepts, mechanics, and ideas. Then WoW came along and offered better content and the like which quickly allowed it to succeed since it offered a better product and it kept that mindset going for it's first several expansions. Then all the competition was basically crushed and, while there were still a few hangers-on, none could challenge it. WoW proceeded to make it next to impossible for any product to even hope to compete successfully in the MMO market and, while a FEW did eek out a space, they weren't serious competition. WoW became abusive and full of terrible business practices all while XIV started to rise up. Now WoW's falling apart as it's internal politics reveal how rotten it was and it's terrible practices are ripping it's bottom out. All the while XIV is soaring.

Tax the rich more and do universal basic income

would solve so many societal problems that its not even funny

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PeterPumpknhead posted...

Tax the rich more and do universal basic income

would solve so many societal problems that its not even funny

It's not that simple. You tax the rich too much and they'll just leave for another nation that doesn't have as high taxes. Tax their companies too much and they'll pull out. You can only go so far with taxes.

Unbridled9 posted...

It's not that simple. You tax the rich too much and they'll just leave for another nation that doesn't have as high taxes. Tax their companies too much and they'll pull out. You can only go so far with taxes.

this simply isnt true, its a myth spread by the media

taxes are a good thing for everyone, but media outlets are controlled by the extremely wealthy. Think about it. If Tesla wants to move to Argentina then fucking let them. Well build better ones here.

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Less people working just means more opportunities for me!

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Metalsonic66 posted...

I prefer the Corporate Overlords myself

Yeah I love how conservatives have no problem sucking the dicks of big businessmen they DON'T vote for but refuse to listen to elected officials.

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PeterPumpknhead posted...

Well build better ones here.

America starting outsourcing manufacturing in the 1970's. It's one of the reasons for our economic decline.

adjl posted...

The businesses that are struggling to find workers are overwhelmingly the ones paying sub-living wages and resisting the idea of paying more. Those sub-living wages also are overwhelmingly not a matter of employees not actually doing work while on the job, they're a result of poor management and a broken economy that undervalues labour.

Incorrect. I'm intimately involved with 2 local businesses that pay liveable wages struggling to find people willing to do the 30-40 hours of work a week because they can stay home and do nothing. This isn't just us but all small businesses. Meanwhile, shitty paying jobs like Wal-Mart and other corporations controlling the government, are still open since the corporate oligarchy is established.

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PeterPumpknhead posted...

this simply isnt true, its a myth spread by the media

taxes are a good thing for everyone, but media outlets are controlled by the extremely wealthy. Think about it. If Tesla wants to move to Argentina then fucking let them. Well build better ones here.

*facepalm*

Okay. Do YOU know how to build an electric car? Do you know how to operate the machinery, supply lines, and everything needed to make one? Only a very small amount of people could manage to set up the supply lines, factories, and employees and the like to build and distribute it. Once they got organized enough to actually produce an electric car... we'd be right back at square 1.

I'm not saying we shouldn't work to deal with tax loopholes, have them pay more (I am a very firm believer in the statement 'if the penalty for breaking the law is a fine than that law only exists for the poor'.), and a lot of other stuff. They have abused people too long in this nation and exploited the lower classes...

But if you're plan is to just 'let them go and we'll make our own, better', that's completely ignoring everything about the problem and what caused it and is just setting yourself up for a repeat unless you are planning to replace it with government-controlled and run organizations at which point you're hitting on something FAAAAAAR worse!

SunWuKung420 posted...

Incorrect. I'm intimately involved with 2 local businesses that pay liveable wages struggling to find people willing to do the 30-40 hours of work a week because they can stay home and do nothing. This isn't just us but all small businesses. Meanwhile, shitty paying jobs like Wal-Mart and other corporations controlling the government, are still open since the corporate oligarchy is established.

Do those businesses know how to advertise those positions? What are the entry requirements? Prior experience? Cause if it's true and we're not talking something like 'wrestle bears for animal control' I'm sure a lot of people would be interested. I sure would if I had any reason to suspect it was near where I lived.

Unbridled9 posted...

*facepalm*

Okay. Do YOU know how to build an electric car? Do you know how to operate the machinery, supply lines, and everything needed to make one? Only a very small amount of people could manage to set up the supply lines, factories, and employees and the like to build and distribute it. Once they got organized enough to actually produce an electric car... we'd be right back at square 1.

I'm not saying we shouldn't work to deal with tax loopholes, have them pay more (I am a very firm believer in the statement 'if the penalty for breaking the law is a fine than that law only exists for the poor'.), and a lot of other stuff. They have abused people too long in this nation and exploited the lower classes...

But if you're plan is to just 'let them go and we'll make our own, better', that's completely ignoring everything about the problem and what caused it and is just setting yourself up for a repeat unless you are planning to replace it with government-controlled and run organizations at which point you're hitting on something FAAAAAAR worse!

you cant underestimate American ingenuity

people like Elon Musk and Bezos didnt get where they are by working for anyone else. They did shit their own way and changed the rules. We gotta do the same thing.

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SunWuKung420 posted...

Incorrect. I'm intimately involved with 2 local businesses that pay liveable wages struggling to find people willing to do the 30-40 hours of work a week because they can stay home and do nothing. This isn't just us but all small businesses. Meanwhile, shitty paying jobs like Wal-Mart and other corporations controlling the government, are still open since the corporate oligarchy is established.

Please tell me what kind of positions theyre offering and also what the supposed livable wages are.

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Unbridled9 posted...

Do those businesses know how to advertise those positions? What are the entry requirements? Prior experience? Cause if it's true and we're not talking something like 'wrestle bears for animal control' I'm sure a lot of people would be interested. I sure would if I had any reason to suspect it was near where I lived.

Yes.

No.

No.

rexcrk posted...

Please tell me what kind of positions theyre offering and also what the supposed livable wages are.

Entry level with training. 20+ an hour. People still don't show up for scheduled interviews.

People are willing to simply barely make ends meet on government assistance to avoid working. It's pathetic.

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PeterPumpknhead posted...

you cant underestimate American ingenuity

people like Elon Musk and Bezos didnt get where they are by working for anyone else. They did shit their own way and changed the rules. We gotta do the same thing.

Also, helps that both of them were born wealthy

SunWuKung420 posted...

Entry level with training. 20+ an hour. People still don't show up for scheduled interviews.

Entry level what though? And is it like a good schedule or shit that people dont want to work?

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It isn't just a wages thing, or basic benefits. Look at our truck drivers, for instance. There's a considerable turnover rate among them, largely due to the realization that, thanks to the Trump Era tax code, neither the truck drivers nor delivery drivers for places like pizzerias can claim those miles on their taxes (source: a few truck drivers I've met). Congratulations, Regressionists, you've fucked up the economy for the sake of avarice.

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America_Dude posted...

Did anyone else notice that Sunny gave almost no information to the questions asked its almost like he doesnt want to answer because hes part of the employer problem of treating employees like shit and then complaining that they dont want to work anymore.

IIRC he works in the restaurant industry which is infamous for its treatment of workers

There have been lots of stories this past year of people taking considerable paycuts to leave the business.

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SunWuKung420 posted...

Incorrect. I'm intimately involved with 2 local businesses that pay liveable wages struggling to find people willing to do the 30-40 hours of work a week because they can stay home and do nothing.

The word "overwhelmingly" does not mean "exclusively." Being able to find two anecdotes that conflict with the generalization (without providing any details that allow me to confirm that they're not mistreating workers to enough of an extent that those wages are inadequate to attract people) does not mean the generalization is incorrect. That would require actual statistics.

Man, you really struggle with understanding when it's appropriate to generalize your personal experience, don't you?

SunWuKung420 posted...

Meanwhile, s***ty paying jobs like Wal-Mart and other corporations controlling the government, are still open since the corporate oligarchy is established.

If Wal-Mart is able to attract workers but your friends' businesses aren't, that's a really damning reflection of your friends' businesses. Nobody is stopping people from working at your friends' businesses and allowing them to work at Wal-Mart. Not the government, not the corporate oligarchy, nobody. People just want to work for Wal-Mart more than they want to work for your friends. That's gotta sting.

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Blightzkrieg posted...

IIRC he works in the restaurant industry which is infamous for its treatment of workers

There have been lots of stories this past year of people taking considerable paycuts to leave the business.

Wouldn't surprise me. Like I said, one huge issue is that a lot of industries treat employee's like crap. While I don't have experience with restaurants we all know how terrible retail is towards it's employee's and there's ample stories of how employee's in the restaurant industry have to depend on tips just to meet the bottom line.

I've worked in restaurants and bars. Who really gets screwed is the kitchen workers. They don't get paid nearly what they should. Often as low as 12 to 13 an hour. You can make pretty decent money serving or bartending though

OhhhJa posted...

I've worked in restaurants and bars. Who really gets screwed is the kitchen workers. They don't get paid nearly what they should. Often as low as 12 to 13 an hour. You can make pretty decent money serving or bartending though

At the same time you don't have to deal with customers.

Unbridled9 posted...

At the same time you don't have to deal with customers.

There's no such thing as being paid enough for customer service. If there was, we'd make more than our corporate overlords.

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Unbridled9 posted...

At the same time you don't have to deal with customers.

in a way you do

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OhhhJa posted...

Also, helps that both of them were born wealthy

imagine what some other people could do if they didnt grow up struggling to stay afloat

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America_Dude posted...

Did anyone else notice that Sunny gave almost no information to the questions asked its almost like he doesnt want to answer because hes part of the employer problem of treating employees like shit and then complaining that they dont want to work anymore.

The other schmen alt decided to chime in incorrectly.


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