Current Events > Gun misfires and kills woman on set of new Alec Baldwin movie

(+) Yeah! (+)

The short of it is that if they were filming a rehearsal mockup then Baldwin won't be charged with a crime. It will be ruled a tragic accident over the course of filming.

Only if he picked up the weapon without it being issued by the weapons master and was aiming it at folks would he be considered for criminal charges.

That said, the families of the victims could pursue civil damages either way.

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KamenRiderBlade posted...

Don't just treat it like a toy or prop. Alec Baldwin needs to take PERSONAL responsibility / accountability.

Here's the rub: if he's relying on directions from a weapon master on set then that responsibility transfers to the trained professional. If the gun was issued for a rehearsal mock filming it should have been properly cleared by the specialist; again, as the professional on set that is their primary responsibility.

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DuneMan posted...

Here's the rub: if he's relying on directions from a weapon master on set then that responsibility transfers to the trained professional. If the gun was issued for a rehearsal mock filming it should have been properly cleared by the specialist; again, as the professional on set that is their primary responsibility.

I don't buy that, the prop master does their best; but Alec Baldwin is the one handling the gun.

Keanu didn't have this problem when he took his FireArm training at Taryn Tactical while training for John Wick.

He worked with real FireArms and learned the basics of S.A.F.E. FireArms handling along with Halle Berry.

This isn't Alec Baldwin's first time handling a FireArm on set.

This Hollywood style of passing the buck onto the prop master is BS.

EVERYBODY on set needs to know the same safety protocols and live by them when handling a FireArm or any weapon for that matter.

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Yeah, I don't agree with Alec's views on guns, but this isn't on him man. Especially when for a movie, you rely on experts to make guns as safe as possible for the scene required.

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Malcrasternus posted...

Yeah, I don't agree with Alec's views on guns, but this isn't on him man. Especially when for a movie, you rely on experts to make guns as safe as possible for the scene required.

The Fundamental Basic Operating Protocols for FireArms Safety doesn't change just because you're making a movie.

In fact, it needs to be taught to EVERYBODY on set. The fact that it's not and everybody relies on a "Prop Master" to do all the safety handling is what is wrong with Hollywood and why people have died on set.

There are literally TONS of YouTube Gun guys who make home videos on their channels that don't have this problem because they are ALL following the EXACT same Fundamental Basic Operating Protocols for FireArms Safety.

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Why they just can't use toy guns that squirt water is beyond me.

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Well, I'm more referring to the legal standard. In the eyes of the law a person can be expected to rely on the work of a trained professional.

Now for the court of personal opinion, you might find him responsible. Depending on the details that come out other people might sour on his behavior as well. For his part, he'll have to live with the knowledge that he inadvertently killed someone, and that some people will hate him for it.

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DuneMan posted...

Well, I'm more referring to the legal standard. In the eyes of the law a person can be expected to rely on the work of a trained professional.

Now for the court of personal opinion, you might find him responsible. Depending on the details that come out other people might sour on his behavior as well. For his part, he'll have to live with the knowledge that he inadvertently killed someone, and that some people will hate him for it.

He's going to be a new/recent cautionary tail of "WHAT NOT TO DO"

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Why in Gods name do you keep typing firearm that way.

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Alteres posted...

Why in Gods name do you keep typing FireArm that way.

Because I feel like it, get over it.

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KamenRiderBlade posted...

Because I feel like it, get over it.

No

What_ posted...

No

Yes

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KamenRiderBlade posted...

The Fundamental Basic Operating Protocols for FireArms Safety doesn't change just because you're making a movie.

In fact, it needs to be taught to EVERYBODY on set. The fact that it's not and everybody relies on a "Prop Master" to do all the safety handling is what is wrong with Hollywood and why people have died on set.

There are literally TONS of YouTube Gun guys who make home videos on their channels that don't have this problem because they are ALL following the EXACT same Fundamental Basic Operating Protocols for FireArms Safety.

All of this is correct. But, and this is important, if the on-site specialist didnt train them correctly, its still their responsibility. If someone wasnt trained properly, how can they be held liable in a scenario like this? They defer to the expert.

Kloe_Rinz posted...

All of this is correct. But, and this is important, if the on-site specialist didnt train them correctly, its still their responsibility. If someone wasnt trained properly, how can they be held liable in a scenario like this? They defer to the expert.

This isn't the first time Alec Baldwin's been on set with FireArms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alec_Baldwin_filmography

Just look at how long his Filmography is, he's had to deal with FireArms handling countless times dating many years back.

The flaw is largely procedural/protocol based and it's the fundamental desire by Hollywood to have everything rely on one person to do all the safety handling.

Hollywood LOVES to pigeon hole people's roles and have everybody be hired for ___ speciality and they only do ___ role.

It's fundamentally incompatible with SAFE FireArms Handling Protocols that are done IRL.

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So this tweet aged poorly

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https://twitter.com/BBCBweaking/status/1451394335900147718?t=QoZEVgkvLPXDN9aUjRhP3Q&s=19

UwU

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KamenRiderBlade posted...

I don't buy that, the prop master does their best; but Alec Baldwin is the one handling the gun.

Keanu didn't have this problem when he took his FireArm training at Taryn Tactical while training for John Wick.

He worked with real FireArms and learned the basics of S.A.F.E. FireArms handling along with Halle Berry.

This isn't Alec Baldwin's first time handling a FireArm on set.

This Hollywood style of passing the buck onto the prop master is BS.

EVERYBODY on set needs to know the same safety protocols and live by them when handling a FireArm or any weapon for that matter.

You have no idea what you're talking about. There were absolutely scenes in John Wick that required keanu reeves to use prop/bank firing guns in a manner that would have been considered extremely unsafe with a live weapon, including firing them while pointed directly at other actors. You're just ultra triggered by one persons views and needed somewhere to cry it out. shut the fuck up.

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Any reason why there was live ammunition on the set?

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I recall hearing that shows like Miami Vice used real police weapons trainers for the actors.

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Frolex posted...

You have no idea what you're talking about. There were absolutely scenes in John Wick that required keanu reeves to use prop/bank firing guns in a manner that would have been considered extremely unsafe with a live weapon, including firing them while pointed directly at other actors. You're just ultra triggered by one persons views and needed somewhere to cry it out. shut the fuck up.

You first snowflake.

Keanu and his crew managed to film safely, even while doing things that would be considered "Un-Safe".

They're already in production making John Wick 5. So that tells you ALOT, and speaks volumes that their crew manages to do things "Safely".

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so how will this play out? will dude be charged for murder?

ZevLoveDOOM posted...

so how will this play out? will dude be charged for murder?

Highly unlikely that Alec Baldwin would be charged for murder.

There was no "Intent".

It'll be "Negligent/Accidental ManSlaughter" most likely.

Of course his company will be sued by the families involved.


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KamenRiderBlade posted...

Keanu and his crew managed to film safely, even while doing things that would be considered "Un-Safe".

almost as if actors have to rely on the work of the armorers and props masters in order to film these scenes safely

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Frolex posted...

almost as if actors have to rely on the work of the armorers and props masters in order to film these scenes safely

Or maybe it's because Keanu & Halle Berry did PROPER FireArms Training IRL before they even went on set to do filming.

They have PROPER Trigger Discipline and know how to Handle FireArms SAFELY due to doing the REAL DEAL by shooting ACTUAL FireArms and train with REAL Professionals like Taryn Tactical. There's no "Safety Gap" by completely relying on the Armorers / Prop Masters for your film crews safety. The stars themselves understand the gravity of the situation when handling FireArms and won't be caught doing dumb shit because they have proper discipline and training.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR9D4TsniUA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Unp4PaMKezY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yk7K8-HnfI

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KamenRiderBlade posted...

They have PROPER Trigger Discipline and know how to Handle FireArms Safely doing the REAL THING.

What part of trigger discipline says it's ever okay to pull the trigger while it's pointed at a member of a film shoot sweetheart?

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ledbowman posted...

she died

She presumably has family.

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Frolex posted...

What part of trigger discipline says it's ever okay to pull the trigger while it's pointed at a member of a film shoot sweetheart?

You validate that your gun isn't loaded with live ammo before you shoot a film. That includes the actor on set validating the FireArm in his hand.

Alec Baldwin obviously isn't trained to handle firearms safely, that's why this incident occured.

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KamenRiderBlade posted...

You validate that your gun isn't loaded with live ammo before you shoot a film.

an actor is supposed expect his gun will be loaded and ready to fire while filming these scenes. the props master and armorer are the ones that are supposed make sure the cartridges are loaded safely for the stunts the scene calls for. wise of you to quickly move off from blaming poor trigger discipline tho, wonder what else you'll pull out of your ass next.

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Frolex posted...

an actor is supposed expect his gun will be loaded and ready to fire while filming these scenes. the props master and armorer are the ones that are supposed make sure the cartridges are loaded safely for the stunts the scene calls for. wise of you to quickly move off from blaming poor trigger discipline tho, wonder what else you'll pull out of your ass next.

And if Alec was trained with the basic concepts of Safe FireArms handling, this would've never been an issue, there wouldn't have been a negligent discharge. But he never took that concept seriously. As a actor, he kept relying on Prop Masters / Armorers to do that job for him. And look where it got him.

He didn't validate what type of ammunition was in his gun before he pulled the trigger.

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Arent the first rule of guns always treat the gun as loaded and never point the gun at anything you don't intend to destroy. Kinda unfortunate Alec didnt know this. Hope he gets jail time for this murder.

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KamenRiderBlade posted...

And if Alec was trained with the basic concepts of Safe FireArms handling, this would've never been an issue, there wouldn't have been a negligent discharge.

There would have been, because any discharge of a firearm at another person is a "negligent discharge" if they aren't trying to kill you. once again, it's the job of the crew to allow the actors to film scenes that call for them to use a gun in an unsafe way. Next asspull, please.

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conservatives jumping on a chance to politicize a death? Something they claim to loathe about the left? Of course.

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Frolex posted...

There would have been, because any discharge of a firearm at another person is a "negligent discharge" if they aren't trying to kill you. once again, it's the job of the crew to allow the actors to film scenes that call for them to use a gun in an unsafe way. Next asspull, please.

Again, Hollywood's Standard Procedure to constantly rely on Armorers / Prop Master for all FireArms Safety has lead to this happening on MORE THAN ONE occaision on set.

Brandon Lee's death is a famous case.

Having all Safety be in the hand one of person is just bound to fail eventually.

Real FireArms Safety Protocols requires EVERYBODY in the area to be attentive and follow ALL the basic protocols to handle FireArms safely, NO EXCEPTIONS.

That should be implemented on set for any Hollywood Films.

Not just reliant on their old business model to place safety on one or a few people only.

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ZevLoveDOOM posted...

so how will this play out? will dude be charged for murder?

Odds are he'll be sued but no charges against him because it was a freak accident. And likewise, the prop master will likely avoid being charged with any crimes if the investigation indicates they didn't do anything with negligence.

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Trolling over a tragic accident like this is low even for conservatrolls on CE.

KamenRiderBlade posted...

Again, Hollywood's Standard Procedure to constantly rely on Armorers / Prop Master for all FireArms Safety has lead to this happening on MORE THAN ONE occaision on set.

Brandon Lee's death is a famous case.

Having all Safety be in the hand one of person is just bound to fail eventually.

Real FireArms Safety Protocols requires EVERYBODY in the area to be attentive and follow ALL the basic protocols to handle FireArms safely, NO EXCEPTIONS.

That should be implemented on set for any Hollywood Films.

Not just reliant on their old business model to place safety on one or a few people only

You literally know jack shit about how this happened.

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KamenRiderBlade posted...

Again, Hollywood's Standard Procedure to constantly rely on Armorers / Prop Master for all FireArms Safety has lead to this happening on MORE THAN ONE occaision on set.

No, negligence on the part of those people to do their job properly led to that happening.

KamenRiderBlade posted...

Real FireArms Safety Protocols requires EVERYBODY in the area to be attentive and follow ALL the basic protocols to handle FireArms safely, NO EXCEPTIONS.

Then say goodbye to any movies depicting an actor pulling the trigger on a gun anywhere but a shooting range. kinda a weird thing to ask for coming form a person who was just pullin his pud over john wick but you do you boo

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BlinxTheSweeper posted...

Trolling over a tragic accident like this is low even for conservatrolls on CE.

There's no trolling here, just disappointment in horrible safety practices / standards.

BlinxTheSweeper posted...

You literally know jack shit about how this happened.

Alec Baldwin pulled the trigger while framing a shot for his movie.

Gun was loaded with a live round for some reason or there was a squib in the gun and a blank launched said squib.

Either way, Alec didn't follow proper basic FireArms Safe Handling & Operating procedures because he never learned it or never took it seriously.

Standard Hollywood practices rely on safety falling squarely in the hands of the Proper Master / Armorer.

That is counter intuitive and opposite the standard operating practices that every single FireArms classes have taught the basic rules of Safe FireArms Handling.

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Frolex posted...

No, negligence on the part of those people to do their job properly led to that happening.

And Hollywood's SOP (Standard Operating Practices) is fundamentally flawed since it puts all Safety Responsibility soley on the part of the Armorer / Prop Master.

That's a very WEAK system for Safety.

Then say goodbye to any movies depicting an actor pulling the trigger on a gun anywhere but a shooting range. kinda a weird thing to ask for coming form a person who was just pullin his pud over john wick but you do you boo

You don't need a shooting range to do that, you just need to follow the basic tenants of FireArms safety protocols when filming and when handling FireArms.

That means all people on set learn the basic rules, it's not complicated.

Young kids are taught this early on and everybody who is new to guns and takes FireArms training courses are taught this immediately.

It is LITERALLY pounded into your head on what to do and what are the basic Safety Rules.

Keanu Reeves & Halle Berry went and got PROPER TRAINING.

People don't have issues when they are TRAINED Appropriately and take FireArms handling Seriously.

They don't treat it flippantly and not follow the common basic rules for safe handling of FireArms.

Doesn't matter if it's On-Set or at a real Firing Range.

The Standard Procedure for Safely Handling & Operating a FireArm or any weapon is the EXACT SAME. You, the user, are expected to practice this forever.

Doesn't matter if it's a Prop, Real FireArm, Airsoft, Replica Gun.

Your basic SOP for Safe Handling isn't expected to change, EVER.

Safe Handling of a FireArm is taught 1st (Teach them the ACTS, Acronym) <NOTE: Yes, I am borrowing Canada's Gun Safety Handling Acronym>
(A)ssume every FireArm is loaded. If you have even the slightest of doubts if a FireArm is loaded; the answer will ALWAYS be "It's Loaded"
(C)ontrol the muzzle direction at all times. In a worst case scenario of accidental/negligent discharge, you want to make sure that the FireArm is pointed in a Safe Direction such that nothing important gets hurt
(T)rigger finger off trigger and out of trigger guard. You can't accidentally set off the trigger if your finger is nowhere near that trigger
(S)ee that the firearm is unloaded. PROVE it safe. Accidents can happen due to negligence of checking the condition of the FireArm, don't be that lazy person who is the cause of an accidental injury or death.or death.

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KamenRiderBlade posted...

There's no trolling here, just disappointment in horrible safety practices / standards.

And you're assuming that it happened because Baldwin is anti-gun. Which is fucking ridiculous.

KamenRiderBlade posted...

Either way, Alec didn't follow proper basic FireArms Safe Handling & Operating procedures because he never learned it or never took it seriously.

It was a prop gun that went through (or at least was supposed to an entire team and safety procedure. If he followed the instructions laid by the crew and production and was directed to do what he did he literally did not do anything wrong. We don't know where the procedures failed. We don't know how the gun discharged. We only know some limited info from am article and you're making massive assumptions to blame a guy you disagree with politically.

There is absolutely no reason to blame anyone with the limited information available to the public other than to be a troll.

Unless you can somehow prove that prop guns are never pointed as camera or other people on set you're talking out of your ass.

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KamenRiderBlade posted...

You don't need a shooting range to do that, you just need to follow the basic tenants of FireArms safety protocols when filming and when handling FireArms.

which basic tenants of firearm safety say you can discharge your weapon at another person honey bunch?

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BlinxTheSweeper posted...

And you're assuming that it happened because Baldwin is anti-gun. Which is fucking ridiculous.

No, I assumed it happened because his Anti-Gun attitude led him to never take FireArms Safety Handling seriously or follow the 4 basic tenants of how to safely handle a FireArm.

This isn't his first rodeo in handling a FireArms on set.

I'm sure he's heard about the 4 basic rules of how to handle FireArms, he just doesn't take it seriously.

BlinxTheSweeper posted...

It was a prop gun that went through (or at least was supposed to an entire team and safety procedure.

A flawed system that has led to some deaths on set already.

If he followed the instructions laid by the crew and production and was directed to do what he did he literally did not do anything wrong.

That safety procedure is fundamentally bad. There are so many safety holes with that.

We don't know where the procedures failed.

Does it matter? Or is it about passing the blame onto the poor Armorer / Prop Master so Hollywood can save a buck?

Hollywood doesn't follow the safety protocols that all Gun Guys generally follow and is taught to everybody who handles FireArms IRL.

Hollywood loves to hire their "Specialists" for everything and leave sole responsibility to them, this includes safety and liability along with the ability to lay all blame at their feet.

We don't know how the gun discharged.

Man pulled trigger, gun pointed at camera or general direction of the camera. DP & Director were behind said camera. They got hit.

We only know some limited info from am article and you're making massive assumptions to blame a guy you disagree with politically.

We got plenty of info from it, more than enough to paint a accurate enough picture of what went on.

The guy doesn't take handling FireArms seriously, ergo this happened to him because his attitude towards FireArms has been flippant. If he respected FireArms properly, he would follow all the basic safety handling protocols like everybody else.

There is absolutely no reason to blame anyone with the limited information available to the public other than to be a troll.

In general, if you pull the trigger, you are responsible for what happens. That's how things go.


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Unless you can somehow prove that prop guns are never pointed as camera or other people on set you're talking out of your ass.

Doesn't matter if it's pointed at the camera, before you pull the trigger, you need to check the chamber and the magazine to make sure that:
1) No live rounds are in the chamber or in the magazine for any reason
2) There are no squibs stuck in the barrel where a blank can launch said squib out of the barrel at lethal speeds.

That responsibility is SOLEY on the person wielding said FireArm. They are REQUIRED by the common standard safety protocol to check every time before they handle said FireArm. That's the Standard Operating Procedure we all live by and it has served us well. If you don't take it seriously, then any negligent discharge and the damage it causes is soley on you, the wielder.

That's true in the Gun Community IRL, that doesn't change just because you're doing film work and handling a FireArm for the camera.


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Frolex posted...

which basic tenants of firearm safety say you can discharge your weapon at another person honey bunch?

Nobody is telling you to do that.

You, as the wielder of said FireArm, need to check the chamber for Live Ammo and check the magazine for live Ammo before you use said FireArm.

If you intend to pull the trigger while pointing it at somebody or something, you better VERIFY FIRST that there isn't a squib in the barrel that a blank can accidentally launch.

The onus of Safety squarely falls in the wielders hands IRL.

People handle FireArms using the common safety protocols EVERYDAY at Gun Ranges, in Gun Stores, at home, wherever a FireArm is located.

The Safety Protocols are to be observed at ALL times, regardles of if the weapon is Real, Replica, Prop, Fake, Airsoft, etc.

You are required to observe said protocols FOREVER, as long as you wield any weapons.

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KamenRiderBlade posted...

Nobody is telling you to do that.

it's literally the actor's job to do that champ

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I have no idea about guns or prop guns but why are they even made in a way that they would ever be able to shoot anything? Why do they have a barrel that an object can even pass through?

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Frolex posted...

it's literally the actor's job to do that champ

And before you do your take pointing the gun at the camera, you are supposed to validate the safe condition of your firearm.

But since it's a Hollywood set, they pass the buck onto the Prop Master / Armorer.

They leave the safety responsibility solely on one or a small group of people, and that's where human error can occur, which leads to this kind of tragedy.

It's a FUNDAMENTALLY flawed system.

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You know, actors probably aren't even allowed to check the guns after the gun master has set them up. Insurance would go through the roof if every actor was held responsible for ensuring proper procedure was followed.

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KamenRiderBlade posted...

And before you do your take pointing the gun at the camera, you are supposed to validate the safe condition of your firearm.

the gun is supposed to be loaded and ready to fire in those scenes sweetie

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Alec Baldwin is a murderer now.

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Frolex posted...

the gun is supposed to be loaded and ready to fire in those scenes sweetie

Not with Live Ammo or a Squib in the barrel that could get launched with a blank.

Otherwise, how do you explain the dead DP & Director in the hospital?

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