Current Events > Lol I hate Walt. *Breaking Bad spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

skylar is so hot

---

"Are you going back to work today?"

"sKyLeR tHeRe'S rOt."

---

Doom_Art posted...

Honestly on this rewatch it's the moment where Elliott offers to pay for his treatment.

Not even pay, he just offered Walt a job which would have had good health insurance.

Everything prior to that is understandable, including murdering Emilio and Crazy 8. Everything after Walt rejects that is not excusable.

Completely agree.

As far as Skylar goes, she had an aggravating manner about her but didn't actually do anything wrong.

Glob posted...

but didn't actually do anything wrong.

Ehhhh. She signed off on Ted's cooked books, helped launder money at the car wash, sent Saul's goons to bully Ted into paying his taxes, and set up a fake inspection to get that guy to sell the car wash. You can argue she was pressured into doing these things and was just making the best of the shit hand she was dealt, but she could have also turned Walt in and kept her hands clean but she chose to go along with it, at least for a while. She certainly hasn't done as many wrong things as the other characters have and the wrong things she did weren't as bad as other characters, not by a long shot, but I wouldn't say she didn't do anything wrong.

---

Skyler didn't really do anything wrong at least compared to Walt but her character is so unlikable that that doesn't really matter

Skyler told Walt to have Jesse killed directly leading to Hanks death. The thought probably crossed Walt's mind but he never did it until Skyler suggested it.

---

WaterLink posted...

Ehhhh. She signed off on Ted's cooked books, helped launder money at the car wash, sent Saul's goons to bully Ted into paying his taxes, and set up a fake inspection to get that guy to sell the car wash. You can argue she was pressured into doing these things and was just making the best of the shit hand she was dealt, but she could have also turned Walt in and kept her hands clean but she chose to go along with it, at least for a while. She certainly hasn't done as many wrong things as the other characters have and the wrong things she did weren't as bad as other characters, not by a long shot, but I wouldn't say she didn't do anything wrong.

Okay, perhaps I said that too matter of factly.

What I meant was that she didn't do anything that made her a bad person. Everything she did that was 'wrong' was completely understandable in the shitty circumstances in which she found herself.

WaterLink posted...

Ehhhh. She signed off on Ted's cooked books, helped launder money at the car wash, sent Saul's goons to bully Ted into paying his taxes, and set up a fake inspection to get that guy to sell the car wash. You can argue she was pressured into doing these things and was just making the best of the shit hand she was dealt, but she could have also turned Walt in and kept her hands clean but she chose to go along with it, at least for a while. She certainly hasn't done as many wrong things as the other characters have and the wrong things she did weren't as bad as other characters, not by a long shot, but I wouldn't say she didn't do anything wrong.

If Walt did those things, he's the hero. She did them and she's a bitch. See the problem?

Derwood posted...

If Walt did those things, he's the hero. She did them and she's a bitch. See the problem?

Walt is an interesting and fun character? He's definitely not a hero. If Skyler took down multiple drug lords just to take their spot, we'd be cheering for her, too. She never has to grapple over whether or not to let Jane die. She is largley an impediment to Walt, especially towards the beginning.
In fact, cooking Ted's books makes her narratively more interesting. The more she signs on for, the more digestable her scenes are.

---

Antbregante posted...

Skyler told Walt to have Jesse killed directly leading to Hanks death.

This is not what happened. Lol

What led to Hank's death was Walt himself calling up Todd's uncle when he suspected Hank and Jesse were going to seize the money he buried. Wtf show were you watching?
---

Doom_Art posted...

Skyler White

Guilty of the crime of resenting that her husband became a murderer meth manufacturer

IDK, my issue with Skylar from the very beginning is she seemed very self-absorbed and had to make everything about her.

Of course, Walt is still a colossal piece of shit.

FWIW, I find Kim Wexler to be a far more likeable female lead.

---

DarkChozoGhost posted...

People really need to stop pretending Skylar isn't a bad person too.

THIS. She ****ed Ted!

---

iPhone_7 posted...

THIS. She ****ed Ted!

she's done some bad stuff, but this isn't one of them

---

I should also point out that you can sympathize with a character and still find them thoroughly unlikable because of their personality.

---

Derwood posted...

If Walt did those things, he's the hero.

Says who? He's not a hero lol
---

WaterLink posted...

Says who? He's not a hero lol

At least respected

I loved Skylar because she was so hot.

---

Derwood posted...

WaterLink posted...

Says who? He's not a hero lol

At least respected

Only because he's the protagonist and watching his ego constantly inflating as well the moral degradation of his character is kind of the appeal of the show.

People may prefer Walt as a character over Skyler but I don't think anyone (that's being serious) would say Walt is a better person.
---

The whole point of the show is that everyone is a bad or flawed person. People who love Walt and hate Skylar (or vice versa) seem to miss that

---

Seeing Jane choke on her own vomit while Walt just kinda menacingly hovers over her never fails to disturb me.

---

I honestly think most people hated skylar cuz she was an obstacle in walts way. And people like me loved walt mostly cuz he was such a goddamn genius. I recently finished a 2nd watchthrough of it and yea skylar was pretty much just looking out for her family. Yea she laundered his money and came up with the gambling story but she just wanted shit to go back to normal. I dont think she really saw walt for who he was after he blew gus up in the nursing home. Before that she was having glasses of wine with walt to celebrate their new laundering scheme >_>. Dont forget she did shady shit too like bone bogdan out of his business through shady means.

Hank and marie were amazing characters. Not much more i can say about them.

Jesse was amazing and hilarious and FUCK whoever thinks otherwise

EDIT: And yea like halfway thru my 2nd watchthru i thought walt was going into pos territory. I will say he didnt go full on villain till after he poisoned Brock. And when s5 started dude may as well have started twirling his mustache

---

dj1200 posted...

skylar is so hot

That scene where Ted is meeting the tax guy and she wears a short dress and acts like a bimbo, just... damn.

---

jumi posted...

That scene where Ted is meeting the tax guy and she wears a short dress and acts like a bimbo, just... damn.

Oh yea thats another thing i realized during my 2nd watch that and marie sorta looked like michael jackson >_>

---

Do ya'll think Walt would have been caught way earlier if Skyler hadn't been helping him launder money? I remember him being pretty dumb with it. Like buying Walt Junior that expensive sports car.

---

I'm always very confused by people who think of these shows in terms of the morals applied to real life. Like talking about what a terrible person Walt is, but that is the thing. Walt is not a person, he is a character on a show. He says and does things, because writers write his lines, the director directs the actors and Bryan Cranston ultimately brings this character to life.

I mean, the world of Breaking Bad comes off so damn cartoony sometimes that it is hard to take seriously. I like rooting for Walt and his shenanigans, because watching this show is like a fun little fantasy. Like hey let's play around with the idea of being a meth dealer and have fun with it.

It's like, I don't play a video game and judge the character I'm playing as for their moral decisions. I just get lost in the world and have fun with it.

So yeah I always rooted for Walt to do cool meth stuff and didn't like Skyler dragging that part of the story down. No hate towards Anna Gunn though. She did a great job bringing that character to life. She was just a character that I enjoyed disliking.

Like, I really don't get people who watch these shows with moral hang ups about the characters. I don't feel the need to categorize them in terms of how I approve the goodness of their actions. I just watch and enjoy what is entertaining in front of me.


---

Derwood posted...

the show definitely had a problem with fans thinking Walt was the hero of the story

I think that is largely due to the protagonist usually is the hero.

---

TommyG663513 posted...

I'm always very confused by people who think of these shows in terms of the morals applied to real life. Like talking about what a terrible person Walt is, but that is the thing. Walt is not a person, he is a character on a show. He says and does things, because writers write his lines, the director directs the actors and Bryan Cranston ultimately brings this character to life.

I mean, the world of Breaking Bad comes off so damn cartoony sometimes that it is hard to take seriously. I like rooting for Walt and his shenanigans, because watching this show is like a fun little fantasy. Like hey let's play around with the idea of being a meth dealer and have fun with it.

It's like, I don't play a video game and judge the character I'm playing as for their moral decisions. I just get lost in the world and have fun with it.

So yeah I always rooted for Walt to do cool meth stuff and didn't like Skyler dragging that part of the story down. No hate towards Anna Gunn though. She did a great job bringing that character to life. She was just a character that I enjoyed disliking.

Like, I really don't get people who watch these shows with moral hang ups about the characters. I don't feel the need to categorize them in terms of how I approve the goodness of their actions. I just watch and enjoy what is entertaining in front of me.

It's just like writing an essay about a novel you wrote. You'd get an F if you wrote "these characters aren't real people, I just enjoyed reading the book".
---

WaterLink posted...

It's just like writing an essay about a novel you wrote. You'd get an F if you wrote "these characters aren't real people, I just enjoyed reading the book".

What does school have to do with anything? We are talking about making moral judgments of TV characters as opposed to setting that aside and living within the fantasy of this criminal world. I can still make all sorts of analyses of characters that avoids moral judgment.

---

TommyG663513 posted...

WaterLink posted...

It's just like writing an essay about a novel you wrote. You'd get an F if you wrote "these characters aren't real people, I just enjoyed reading the book".

What does school have to do with anything? We are talking about making moral judgments of TV characters as opposed to setting that aside and living within the fantasy of this criminal world. I can still make all sorts of analyses of characters that avoids moral judgment.

Fans have different interpretations so we discuss them? The characters aren't real people, I think we get that hoss. They were written by real people though and it's fun to discuss.
---

WaterLink posted...

Fans have different interpretations so we discuss them? The characters aren't real people, I think we get that hoss. They were written by real people though and it's fun to discuss.

Yes and I wrote a counter argument to that and why I am so perplexed that people focus so heavily on moral judgments of the characters as opposed to other methods of critiquing them.

I am participating in the discussion, but you somehow feel I am not by writing something dismissive of what I said

Also, I'm not at all convinced that everyone ITT knows that Walt isn't a real person. You judge a TV character in a very different way than you would someone you've personally interacted with.

---

TommyG663513 posted...

Yes and I wrote a counter argument to that and why I am so perplexed that people focus so heavily on moral judgments of the characters as opposed to other methods of critiquing them.

That's kind of the theme of the show though and helps frame the decisions they make. Think of it as trying to understand what the writers were trying to convey
---

WaterLink posted...

That's kind of the theme of the show though and helps frame the decisions they make. Think of it as trying to understand what the writers were trying to convey

Yeah and I feel the writers can't entirely rely on a sense of moral realism when many facets of the harsh reality of dealing meth are dealt with in a very cartoony fashion.

I mean, I guess I enjoy the contrast, but for me it really takes the piss out of the moral judgments you could discern from the show.

Even trying to remain consistent with moral judgments, Walt was very far from being the worst person on the show. Lydia was definitely just as bad or worse. I would argue that Mike was way worse as he was basically a hitman and never acted much out of moral principal as opposed to treating it like a job which he did.

Even as off putting as the way Walt handled Mike was, it was still the death that Mike deserved based on how he lived and treated others. Then for all the credit Mike gets as a professional among this world he gets bested by Walt who damn near till the end may as well be in "fake it till you make it" levels.

Which brings me to my big point that the fun in the show was just really seeing very inventive ways to escape seemingly inescapable situations. I felt this was more than anything where the show shined.

Even putting aside the criminal underworld and focusing on Walt's family the only morally clean one was Walter Jr (I guess Hailey too, but she's a baby lol) and the only decent or likable thing his character ever did was enjoy a good breakfast. So ultimately I dislike Walt Jr very much as a character.

I just feel that when you focus too much on the moral judgments of characters you can get a little too up your ass. I mean, is there ultimately a character on the show that I would fully approve of morally? I mean, damn near everyone in this show at least dips their toes in some grey areas. It almost seems pointless to rank them when a very large portion of the characters fall into beyond morally unacceptable territory.

Characters can be likable/unlikable by how competent they are. I feel that Skyler's best moments on the show are when she gets very hands on in the business. The scene where she plays the bimbo part with Ted and the auditor was great as well as the scene when she conned Bogdan out of the car wash.


---

Dude we just like to talk about the way the characters were written

---

TommyG663513 posted...

This dude reminds me of Dawkins trying to understand Kafka:


---

Doom_Art posted...

Dude we just like to talk about the way the characters were written

Did you even read what I just said?

I talked about critiquing characters on moral judgments versus judging other potential characteristics such as their skill navigating this world.

---

WeeWeiWiiWie posted...

This dude reminds me of Dawkins trying to understand Kafka:

Dude, you're attempting to make an ad hominem attack, because you don't agree with someone's opinion on a TV show. Keep that in perspective.

---

TommyG663513 posted...

I talked about critiquing characters on moral judgments versus judging other potential characteristics such as their skill navigating this world.

Why does it have to be one or the other? Why do you have to downplay one to promote the other? Fans of the show discuss both of them pretty frequently.

---

TommyG663513 posted...

Dude, you're attempting to make an ad hominem attack, because you don't agree with someone's opinion on a TV show. Keep that in perspective.

It's more like you don't seem to understand fiction?

---

WaterLink posted...

Why does it have to be one or the other? Why do you have to downplay one to promote the other? Fans of the show discuss both of them pretty frequently.

I never said it had to be one or the other. I pointed out that it seems many seem to value the moral judgment over any other form of judgment. I explained that I find the moral judgment to almost be a wash among the show, but I appreciate the different abilities each character brings to the table.

You're welcome to still value moral judgments and I'm still welcome to potentially disagree with how important you find those to be.


---

WeeWeiWiiWie posted...

It's more like you don't seem to understand fiction?

You're more than welcome to make an actual argument for me to engage with. Engaging in discussions about shows online is part of the fun for me. Please feel free to express your disagreement with me without resorting to an ad hominem.


---

She's just an unlikable character.

A boring character that only serves to be an obstacle to the journey. Jeez, who would have thought no one would like her?

---

TommyG663513 posted...

You're more than welcome to make an actual argument for me to engage with. Engaging in discussions about shows online is part of the fun for me. Please feel free to express your disagreement with me without resorting to an ad hominem.

That's not an ad hominem lol

Tommy, you can't seriously sit here and argue that morality isn't a huge piece of the show when a significant chunk of it has characters contemplating the moral implications of their actions.

---

The entire show is based on Walt's degrading morality. It's literally called Breaking Bad. Examining morality within the show is examine the central theme of it. Morality is the pillar the entire narrative is built on.

---

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

That's not an ad hominem lol

Tommy, you can't seriously sit here and argue that morality isn't a huge piece of the show when a significant chunk of it has characters contemplating the moral implications of their actions.

It very clearly is an ad hominem done in bad faith.

I'm not arguing that morality isn't a huge piece of the show. I find it odd how so many judge characters on the show in moral terms above others when at the end of the day this is a show with characters created for the purpose of being entertaining to us. The reality is that many didn't find Skyler in the early seasons entertaining, because she was just the domestic foil to Walt's drug dealing ambitions and there were just much more interesting antagonists to compare her to.

People often counter arguments that Skyler was a total drag on the show early on by saying she is just being a concerned mother/housewife and we should sympathize with her more and demonize Walt. I'm watching a show called Breaking Bad not a show called Domesticated Husband.

I didn't watch the Sopranos and root for Tony Soprano to face moral/legal consequences. I watched to see him do gangster stuff and gradually be a worse person. I rooted for the more skillful and interesting gangsters beyond Tony. Although there were certainly moral differences between the characters with Tony typically among the worst in many ways. It still seemed silky to judge these gangsters I relative moral terms, because they're all such life long criminals and extremely violent people.

I personally liked Skyler more as a character as she dropped some of the moral play and got her hands dirty as it really showed her to have a lot of the same traits as Walt. Well, the sense in which Walt could find his way out of seemingly inescapable situations that is.


---

codey posted...

The entire show is based on Walt's degrading morality. It's literally called Breaking Bad. Examining morality within the show is examine the central theme of it. Morality is the pillar the entire narrative is built on.

And Vince Gilligan referred to the show as showing Mr. Chips turning into Scarface and I fundamentally disagree that he accomplished that goal on both fronts. Creators can have an intent with a show and I can see it, but disagree as to what extent they achieved that intention.

I'd also very strongly argue that a big theme of the show is resourcefulness and finding your way out of the seemingly inescapable as the show is constantly playing up this drama of escaping a jam.

Just because the creators intended morality as the biggest theme doesn't mean it was the only intended theme or the best executed one


---

TommyG663513 posted...

I'm not arguing that morality isn't a huge piece of the show. I find it odd how so many judge characters on the show in moral terms above others when at the end of the day this is a show with characters created for the purpose of being entertaining to us.

If you find it odd that people compare morality of characters in which it's a major theme I don't know what to tell you. It's very obvious and reasonable that people would do so, and you being oblivious to that doesn't make it strange.

---

codey posted...

If you find it odd that people compare morality of characters in which it's a major theme I don't know what to tell you. It's very obvious and reasonable that people would do so, and you being oblivious to that doesn't make it strange.

I very rarely see people judge the show in moral terms in a fair way for that matter. Walt at his absolute worst was still a better person than every single Mexican drug cartel person, Gus, Mike, and probably Lydia too.

Mike was an especially bad person, but people give him a pass due to his likability. Mike was a hitman for hire who was just great at being a henchman.

My argument here is that as a show which aims to be about morals, I feel that is far from the most notable thing about its characters. I feel weighing morals well above all else to the point of damn near exclusivity is odd. The way these characters escape danger and handle the stresses is much more interesting than their morality.

There is a difference between the author's intention and the reality of the execution. Morality is the intention and consistent ability in surviving/escaping danger seems to be the most important theme to me.

The way people talk about Walt it's like they've met him when they haven't. Like they have a specific anger towards the character. Like a very personal feeling towards him. They way people are upset about his moral failings. I find that pretty odd.


---

TommyG663513 posted...

The way people talk about Walt it's like they've met him when they haven't. Like they have a specific anger towards the character. Like a very personal feeling towards him. They way people are upset about his moral failings. I find that pretty odd.

People connect with television shows and characters in different ways. Your comments earlier about being puzzled that people look at the morality of tv characters when they arent real kinda shows that. Some people may identify with certain aspects of a character or admire/detest certain things about a character because they remind them of someone they know. Or maybe for other reasons. The point being, just because some of us get lost in a show and within the discussion of characters doesnt mean we think they are real people.

---

You keep saying there's a difference between authorial intent and execution, but while that might be true in some cases it's not really the case here. Just because you're more interested in other aspects of the show doesn't mean that the very blatant, obvious theme of moral degradation isn't there.

And you really can't be so dense as to be confused as to why people discuss the moral of a well written character like Walt, because his transformation from meek science teacher to drug kingpin is the entire story of the series. Saying things like that makes you seem like one of those people that think Moby Dick is about nothing more than a whale hunt or Starship Troopers is about shooting bugs, not fascism.

---