Current Events > Is the Same-Type Attack Bonus in Pokemon games "advanced" knowledge?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Preamble:
When I was in my second year of university, around 2014/2015, I decided to play some Pokemon game to kill time between classes.
A few of my roommates had played Pokemon when they were kids, with one in particular playing up until he started college.

I randomly asked what moveset I should have for a Pokemon, and he suggested whatever. None of that is important. What is important is when he suggested no moves that would receive Same-Type Attack Bonus (aka, STAB), as I imagine he was the kind of guy to give a Normal-type Pokemon a move of every type that wasn't Normal.
He asked me, "what the hell is STAB?" So I explained what it was. A Pokemon using the move of the same-type as it is gets a 1.5x power boost.

Then he basically had a melty, "how long has that been a thing?" "Oh my god, I don't care about metagame bullshit." "People like you ruined Pokemon with Eevee and Ivy training."
I was honestly surprised, I legit thought STAB was a basic principle of the games. Why wouldn't it be? 1.5x is a huge multiplier in literally any game I've played.
I agree that the Pokemon games are super easy, and honestly, not having knowledge of STAB wouldn't reduce your enjoying of the game. But is it considered "advanced" knowledge, as with the likes of EVs and IVs? Or is it a mechanic as important as type-effectiveness that the games are known for?

Let me know!

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In game NPCs have explained STAB to you in every single game IIRC. This is something I've known since childhood so it's definitely not meta knowledge

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I'm pretty sure it's said ingame in multiple games that moves that match the Pokemon's type are stronger than those that don't. Plus, it just makes logical sense.

Your roommate sounds like a dunce.

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Hmmm, I'm not sure what to put here. I'm not sure STAB is mentioned in any of the games I played, and I certainly didn't know about it until I started watching some competitive Pokemon youtube videos out of curiosity.

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Can't vote, but false
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Is it ever mentioned in the games?

MC_BatCommander posted...

In game NPCs have explained STAB to you in every single game IIRC. This is something I've known since childhood so it's definitely not meta knowledge

In the story? I almost never talk to random NPCs. I've played gens 1-6.

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Intermediate at most tbqh.

I'm pretty sure my first encounter with the knowledge was the insert with types/weaknesses that came with Polemon Stadium

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I'm sure every game has an NPC who says something along the lines of "Did you know that if a Pokemon uses an attack the same type as itself, it does more damage?"

But I don't recall any game specifying that it was 1.5x

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Jabodie posted...

In the story? I almost never talk to random NPCs. I've played gens 1-6.

what's your problem

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Even if they game didn't tell you it exist, which it does, I feel like it is just common sense.

Like, you would notice your Gengar hits harder with Shadow Ball than Thunderbolt, despite TBolt having higher listed damage.

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STAB is pretty basic knowledge.

Advanced Knowledge is like IVs, EV training, HAs, Breeding inheritance, speed priority, and stuff like that which generally isn't explained anywhere in the game.

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No this isn't advanced lmao

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Compsognathus posted...

Even if they game didn't tell you it exist, which it does, I feel like it is just common sense.

Like, you would notice your Gengar hits harder with Shadow Ball than Thunderbolt, despite TBolt having higher listed damage.

Pretty much. STAB is both basic knowledge and common sense, and if someone could somehow play Pokemon games for that long without knowing about it, then they just weren't paying attention.
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This is basic knowledge.

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Calwings posted...

Pretty much. STAB is both basic knowledge and common sense, and if someone could somehow play Pokemon games for that long without knowing about it, then they just weren't paying attention.

I suppose, but you really don't have to. Unless you're doing a gimmick run type coverage is all that matters.

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MC_BatCommander posted...

In game NPCs have explained STAB to you in every single game IIRC. This is something I've known since childhood so it's definitely not meta knowledge

This, and I'm pretty sure I recall it even being explained in the manual too. EDIT: Though yeah, I don't recall the games / manuals ever putting a specific number on it, just "it does more damage".

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Jabodie posted...

I suppose, but you really don't have to. Unless you're doing a gimmick run type coverage is all that matters.

Sure but you do run into situations where you are going to be hitting neutral regardless, so you just hit it with your hardest attack. I feel like you would eventually realize it is the one with STAB.

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Somewhere in between. One random NPC in a game of hundreds of useless NPCs doesn't exactly give them a free pass for having it explained in game.

It's nowhere near the same tier as IVs though. Your roommate sounds like a bitch.

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I don't think stab existed until Gen 4.

Also if your roommate is aware of ev and iv training, a true metagame mechanic, then they would have to know about Stab

PatrickMahomes posted...

Somewhere in between. One random NPC in a game of hundreds of useless NPCs doesn't exactly give them a free pass for having it explained in game.

a lot of those useless NPCs give details about quirks of the game though. that's why they exist, for you to go talk to and learn.


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PowerOats posted...

I don't think stab existed until Gen 4.

It's existed since Gen 1. The closest thing I can think of that was introduced in Gen 4, was where they made physical vs special a property of the individual attack rather than making it determined solely by the type.

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Compsognathus posted...

Sure but you do run into situations where you are going to be hitting neutral regardless, so you just hit it with your hardest attack. I feel like you would eventually realize it is the one with STAB.

I usually just switch to a Pokemon with a super effective move in a casual run. You got six of them, odds are you will have a move for every type soon enough.

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Compsognathus posted...

Even if they game didn't tell you it exist, which it does, I feel like it is just common sense.

Like, you would notice your Gengar hits harder with Shadow Ball than Thunderbolt, despite TBolt having higher listed damage.

I feel like this is assuming youd ever try using a different move besides the one listed as the strongest if there wasnt a type advantage.

Like, I was giving Pokmon four fire moves just because I thought it made sense as a kid.

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PatrickMahomes posted...

Somewhere in between. One random NPC in a game of hundreds of useless NPCs doesn't exactly give them a free pass for having it explained in game.

Except in every generation there's a school that exists solely to tech you basic game mechanics if you read the blackboard and the books and talk to the NPCs and STAB is one of the things in there in every game. It's on the same level of obscurity as "what status effects do".

You nerds cant be serious.

Most Pokemon players never use directly offensive moves.

I assure you most casual players know nothing about STAB, nor is it common sense. An optional npc that doesnt even outright say it as an objective statistic is not the same as having a forced tutorial.

I know yall study Pokemon and go online for it, but its not well advertised.

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I don't know if it's common knowledge, but it's kind of just common sense.

cuttin_in_farm posted...

You nerds cant be serious.

Most Pokemon players never use directly offensive moves.

You...what?

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Trumble posted...

It's existed since Gen 1. The closest thing I can think of that was introduced in Gen 4, was where they made physical vs special a property of the individual attack rather than making it determined solely by the type.

Gotcha. I think it was Gen 4 when I 1st heard of stab, so it felt like something it would introduce

Compsognathus posted...

You...what?

Flipped it. Meant they never not use directly offensive moves. So no growls or sand attacks.

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I never knew about it

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cuttin_in_farm posted...

Most Pokemon players never use directly offensive moves.

What the fuck? No, this couldn't be farther from the truth. The vast majority of "casual" players in Pokemon, especially kids, are the types to only use direct attacking moves and see moves that don't do direct damage as worthless. After using so many attacking moves, almost all of them would eventually figure out that same-type moves do more damage, either by finding an NPC who mentions it (they do exist), finding out about it online or from someone else, or by figuring out themselves just by seeing that same-type moves look like they're doing more damage than they should.

Even 9-year-old me realized quickly that my Blastoise did more damage with Surf than with Ice Beam despite the moves having the same base power.
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Anecdotally, I am the only Pokemon player I know that is aware of STAB IRL. Or if they know now, it was me who told them (who learned about it reading Smogon on the Internet).

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Calwings posted...

What the fuck? No, this couldn't be farther from the truth. The vast majority of "casual" players in Pokemon, especially kids, are the types to only use direct attacking moves and see moves that don't do direct damage as worthless. After using so many attacking moves, almost all of them would eventually figure out that same-type moves do more damage, either by finding an NPC who mentions it (they do exist), finding out about it online or from someone else, or by figuring out themselves just by seeing that same-type moves look like they're doing more damage than they should.

Even 9-year-old me realized quickly that my Blastoise did more damage with Surf than with Ice Beam despite the moves having the same base power.

Sure buddy.

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I'd say it is barely more advanced than knowing burn cuts attack or paralyze cuts speed.

I typed this out like an hour ago and never hit submit lol

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RBY in particular were so easy nearly all battles could be ended with OHKO the entire team. There was not really a need for things like Growl.


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Calwings posted...

Basically every other kid I knew back i

Dude.

cuttin_in_farm posted...

Flipped it. Meant they never not use directly offensive moves. So no growls or sand attacks.

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I played red, yellow, silver, and ruby, and had no idea this was a thing. I just picked whatever sounded cool or I imagined looked cool. I would say this is advanced knowledge as I don't recall the games telling you this

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cuttin_in_farm posted...

Dude.

I'm sorry, I missed that. I'll delete my previous responses now.
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I don't think it's common knowledge. Random NPCs explain that same type does extra damage but doesn't give the exact number.

Tyranthraxus posted...

There was not really a need for things like Growl.

In fairness, there still really isn't

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not as advanced as EV/IV
but I wouldn't say it's near as common knowledge as type effectiveness

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I only played Red, Yellow, and Pokemon Stadium, and had no idea this was a thing until I was a decent way through stadium and realized when my Snorlax (or w/e normal pokemon learns a ton of different types) used thunderbolt, it sucked ass compared to what I was used to.

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AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

I only played Red, Yellow, and Pokemon Stadium, and had no idea this was a thing until I was a decent way through stadium and realized when my Snorlax (or w/e normal pokemon learns a ton of different types) used thunderbolt, it sucked ass compared to what I was used to.

If it was a Snorlax, it also sucked because Thunderbolt is a special move and Snorlax's SpAtk is far lower than its Attack. In terms of STAB, a more clear indicator would be Snorlax doing more damage with Body Slam (base power of 85, gets STAB) than Earthquake (base power of 100, doesn't get STAB)
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Calwings posted...

If it was a Snorlax, it also sucked because Thunderbolt is a special move and Snorlax's SpAtk is far lower than its Attack. In terms of STAB, a more clear indicator would be Snorlax doing more damage with Body Slam (base power of 85, gets STAB) than Earthquake (base power of 100, doesn't get STAB)

I also didnt really know the difference between special stat and attack/defense stat or normal/special attacks back then lol

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I feel like it's as advanced knowledge as finding out you can only get a Golem if you trade with your friends, or that Mew exists.

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