Poll of the Day > AEW just announced a Dynamite/Rampage taping in my city

(+) Yeah! (+)

I think I'm gonna go watch sum wrasslin...

You should go. Live wrestling shows are fun.

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I've been a few ROH shows back in the day (I saw Punk drop the belt to Gibson live), I definitely enjoy them. It will be my bf's first wrestling show.

I'm going to the show in NYC in September.
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Nice! I just got my tickets today. It's the debut show in Moxley's hometown, what's the over/under I get some kind of deathmatch/hardcore match on the card? lol

I'm so blind that I thought the topic title said there was an emergency cuz there was someone on a rampage throwing dynamite around the city

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I bought tickets to a WWE-ran ECW once... and then they canceled the show.

So unless that BS-sounding rumor about AEW signing Punk is true (which was started by a wrestling "journalist" with an unverified Twitter handle and 2k followers, along with a no-name ".net" website), it means I missed my chance at seeing CM Punk wrestle in-person forever.

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I think the Bryan part is pretty credible, and AEW signing Bryan might have been the nudge Punk needed. Idk, I'm optimistic. Either way I'll see Omega live for the first time, and I'm sure Moxley puts on a show.

IronBornCorps posted...

Either way I'll see Omega live for the first time,

My condolences. Hopefully you'll enjoy the rest of the show despite that =p

IronBornCorps posted... I think the Bryan part is pretty credible

The same guy is the source for both claims. Next he might claim Brock Lesnar is jumping ship.

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What's your problem with Omega?

Zeus posted...

which was started by a wrestling "journalist" with an unverified Twitter handle and 2k followers, along with a no-name ".net" website

Sean Ross Sapp/Fightful is actually pretty damned reputable (about as reputable as you can be in this carny business), and other people have backed it up, so it's probably true.

But it's worth noting that all that was really reported was that Punk was talking to AEW on a regular basis (and Meltzer confirmed it's been going on for a while now). People online are the ones who've picked it up and run with it to spin it all the way up to "Punk's definitely already signed and is going to debut in Chicago", so that's on them more than anything if it doesn't happen.

It's also worth noting that even if he DOES sign he still might not wrestle. He's enough of a troll that he could potentially just want to manage or announce or guest-appear rather than sign on as an active or semi-active wrestler.

Though AEW supposedly agreed to Bryan Danielson's request for a lighter schedule and an open contract that allows him to wrestle in other places (specifically New Japan), so they'd probably be open to a more flexible deal with Punk as well, which might help convince him to have a few more matches with opponents he finds interesting (he's mentioned a number of AEW people he'd enjoy wrestling in the past).
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IronBornCorps posted...

What's your problem with Omega?

His matches are the shits, he does tons of goofy nonsense, he gave Michael Nakazawa a job, his promos suck (and are delivered badly), and he's in a spot that could have gone to an actual talent.

I thought he was all hype with no substance before AEW -- just a goof propped up by a senile Uncle Dave looking to play kingmaker by giving out 12-star-matches -- but, after seeing him wrestle in AEW, I realized he's even worse than that.

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ParanoidObsessive posted...

Sean Ross Sapp/Fightful is actually pretty damned reputable (about as reputable as you can be in this carny business), and other people have backed it up, so it's probably true.

The guy who broke the original story for both -- or at least took credit -- was Cassidy Haynes of BodySlam.net (have you ever heard of him or the site?) and other websites picked up on it. Almost all of them seem to eventually link back to Cassidy's original, unverified claims.

From another topic:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/257-pro-wrestling-other-federations/79578624

Zeus posted... Again, why is this guy supposedly reliable in the first place? He's the source for two stories now, and he doesn't seem to be in a position where he would know anything. The guy has a small, no-name wrestling fan site and virtually no Twitter followers.

https://twitter.com/Casshooole

And his sketchy site has like no activity:

https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/bodyslam.net

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I don't know what you did and didn't watch from NJPW, but his matches with Okada are amazing among others. I also liked his match against Swann where he won the Impact championship.

You are probably a big Cornette guy huh?

Zeus posted...

The guy who broke the original story for both -- or at least took credit -- was Cassidy Haynes of BodySlam.net (have you ever heard of him or the site?) and other websites picked up on it. Almost all of them seem to eventually link back to Cassidy's original, unverified claims.

I've actually heard of BodySlam.net, yes. They break a fair number of stories.

But my point was, it doesn't really matter how unreliable the original source is if much more reputable people come out later and say "Yes, I verified this with my own sources, it's true."



IronBornCorps posted...

What's your problem with Omega?

Zeus is a Jim Cornette mark, and is thus morally obligated to hate Kenny Omega and everything he's even remotely involved with, no matter what it actually is.

Kenny Omega could save a dozen orphans from a burning building, and Cornette would accuse him of setting the fire, then complain about the invisible man and 9-year old Japanese girls for a half-hour.
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IronBornCorps posted...

I don't know what you did and didn't watch from NJPW, but his matches with Okada are amazing among others. I also liked his match against Swann where he won the Impact championship.

I didn't watch a massive amount of NJPW so I can't speak to it, but the consensus I've always heard is that Okada carried his ass. However, what he did years ago is less relevant than what he's doing right now. Hulk Hogan was a star in the 80s (and an actual star unlike Kenny), but that didn't make his TNA run any better. And Jericho had some great WWE runs, but nowadays his work is pretty sloppy and he's in terrible shape.

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I would say there is credit due to Okada, who has shown he can put together a great match with anyone. Kenny has had plenty of great matches with other competitors, and I've really been a fan since he and Ibushi were starting together.

I think considering his role in AEW, he is really taking it slow and likely spent the first year or so establishing AEW as a brand than himself. The Belt Collector could be the beginning of his ascension in the US, and Globally.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Zeus is a Jim Cornette mark

Ugh. They're the worst. Jim Cornette needs to keep his awful opinions to himself.
He had one enjoyable segment on Dark Side of the Ring (him crapping all over Vince Russo iirc) but that's it.

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Cornette has the gift of gab, but yeah he is just an old man with his Sprite, talking about the glory days and how everything sucks now.

It is fun to watch him bury people who have it coming though, like Russo. Also, I appreciate the occasional Death Match, but for the life of me I'll never understand why someone would jump off a building for a crowd of 30-50 feral hogs.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Zeus is a Jim Cornette mark,

No, it's the other way around. I listen to him BECAUSE he shares my opinions on shitty wrestling. He draws in listeners who have eyes. Before I learned AEW was a thing, I kept getting shared clips of ridiculous botches and stupid nonsense, which I hadn't realized was all from the same promotion. It wasn't until I saw a clip of Jericho with Top Flight (who are so fucking awful, by the way) that I wound up learning AEW was a thing and re-discovering Cornette.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

is thus morally obligated to hate Kenny Omega and everything he's even remotely involved with, no matter what it actually is.

Dave Meltzer and the Kenny marks are what first got me to dislike Kenny. They hyped this guy up to the moon, then I watched some of his shitty matches.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Kenny Omega could save a dozen orphans from a burning building, and Cornette would accuse him of setting the fire, then complain about the invisible man and 9-year old Japanese girls for a half-hour.

And even after we learned Kenny set that fire while wrestling a 9 y/o girl, you'd defend him and point out all of the fires he didn't start while getting handsy with children.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

But my point was, it doesn't really matter how unreliable the original source is if much more reputable people come out later and say "Yes, I verified this with my own sources, it's true."

No, almost all of them are circling back to the same awful primary source. If it was coming from Meltzer -- who is to close to AEW these days he's widely believed to be on the payroll -- that'd be one thing. However, all of this is coming from the same disreputable source.

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Final Fantasy2389 posted...

Ugh. They're the worst. Jim Cornette needs to keep his awful opinions to himself.

Jim's actually extremely intelligent, and a lot of his observations about old-time wrestling can be really insightful. If you just listen to him in that context, he's pretty good.

He just has a hate-boner for modern wrestling, which kind of irrationally blinds him to anything and everything other than the fact that it isn't exactly the type of wrestling he grew up with, and is therefore evil. The sad part is, because he couches all of his criticism in over-the-top insults, abuse, and rhetoric, it actually winds up completely obscuring the moments when he does have a legitimate criticism of the modern style or presentation. He's become the boy who cried wolf. Except in this case, he's the boy who cried about blow-up dolls, invisible grenades, and pockets.

Of course, there's plenty of people who are absolutely convinced Cornette doesn't even actually hate AEW, as much as he's lost himself in his role of "HEEL MANAGER" and is fully aware that by shitting on it he can draw attention from its fans and remain "relevant" in modern wrestling. So he's overselling all of his opinions and deliberately trolling AEW fans. The fact that his hate for WWE is somewhat passive ("I find this boring and thus don't really watch") is different from his hate for AEW ("This enrages me and therefore I will watch all of it to find things to make fun of") comes across like a bit of a work.

There are also people who point out that, as much as Cornette doesn't hesitate to shit on Trump and his supporters, Jim basically conveys most of his opinions in exactly the same way Trump does. They may have radically different political perspectives, but how they choose to present those perspectives is pretty much the same. So the irony is kind of delicious for people who dislike him. He's very much a demagogue personality relying on emotion and tricks of speech to impose his world-view, and savagely insulting anyone who disagrees with him.

Either way, the real problem isn't Cornette himself as much as his fans who aggressively take his gospel and preach it to anyone who'll listen, treating his every word like dogma, using all of his pet insults and nicknames as if it makes them sound clever, and generally coming across like parrots. It's the same reason I generally loathe political discussion of all kinds online - most of the people talking are just repeating soundbites they barely understand but which they've internalized because "my side" needs to win.
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Arv will go

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I've heard of bodyslam.net too though >.>

What Kenny matches have you seen?

I know the ending was botched, but him and Moxley in that barbed wire match was pretty good up to that point. He really has a lot of depth in terms of styles he can wrestle.

IronBornCorps posted...

I think I'm gonna go watch sum wrasslin...

I'm jealous. After watching wrestling for around 25 years I've never went to a live show. I plan to do so one day and AEW is a good call.

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Zeus posted...

No, almost all of them are circling back to the same awful primary source. If it was coming from Meltzer -- who is to close to AEW these days he's widely believed to be on the payroll -- that'd be one thing. However, all of this is coming from the same disreputable source.

Except it's not, but you're just refusing to acknowledge that because if you did you'd have to change the opinion you already decided was objectively correct and which is now set in stone.

Just like Cornette!



Zeus posted...

No, it's the other way around. I listen to him BECAUSE he shares my opinions on shitty wrestling.

The fact that you tend to parrot back most of his pet insults whenever you're talking about specific people very strongly suggests that you've been influenced by his thinking a lot more dogmatically than you're willing to admit.

A lot of your confirmation bias is also you judging things based on what he's said. You've even openly admitted this previously. "Jim said this was bad, so I went to check it out." The problem is, that's absolutely going to color your perspective even if you don't realize/accept that.

You know, in exactly the same way you and Cornette are basically accusing Meltzer of using his opinion to brainwash dumb marks into believing Omega is better than he is just by constantly talking him up and repeating the praise all the time.

But of course, they're the marks. YOU'RE the one who has it all figured out. Only you and Saint Jim understand the true objective reality that is professional wrestling. Anyone who disagrees must clearly either be deluded, or in on the scam.
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IronBornCorps posted...

I know the ending was botched, but him and Moxley in that barbed wire match was pretty good up to that point. He really has a lot of depth in terms of styles he can wrestle.

That's not even on him, that's production and the company they outsourced pyro to.

Which isn't to say that Kenny can't botch, or that he's a perfect wunderkind who aces everything he's ever done. But it's not really on the wrestlers if something doesn't explode right unless the wrestlers were literally the ones who set it up.
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ParanoidObsessive posted...

There are also people who point out that, as much as Cornette doesn't hesitate to shit on Trump and his supporters, Jim basically conveys most of his opinions in exactly the same way Trump does. They may have radically different political perspectives, but how they choose to present those perspectives is pretty much the same. So the irony is kind of delicious for people who dislike him. He's very much a demagogue personality relying on emotion and tricks of speech to impose his world-view, and savagely insulting anyone who disagrees with him.

...it was just then that I realized PO was a Dave Meltzer mark. The only question is whether he got indoctrinated by Meltzer into this nonsense, or sought out Meltzer because he was indoctrinated.

Otherwise I responded to your earlier post (in post #20) when you were posting (post #21)

ParanoidObsessive posted...

He just has a hate-boner for modern wrestling, which kind of irrationally blinds him to anything and everything other than the fact that it isn't exactly the type of wrestling he grew up with, and is therefore evil. The sad part is, because he couches all of his criticism in over-the-top insults, abuse, and rhetoric, it actually winds up completely obscuring the moments when he does have a legitimate criticism of the modern style or presentation. He's become the boy who cried wolf. Except in this case, he's the boy who cried about blow-up dolls, invisible grenades, and pockets.

So are you defending things like invisible handgrenades? Because it's hard to tell from context.

The problem is that too many people try to claim "modern wrestling" as an excuse for bad wrestling. Bad wrestling has ALWAYS existed -- you had outlaw promotions doing nonsense decades ago, too (although it doesn't go back as far as actual wrestling, it was really when the fucking 90s hit that the industry went to hell) -- but people rightly dismissed it. The reason why wrestling is at a fraction of the business it used to be is largely *because* the stuff nowadays is mostly garbage and people who watched it even when it was starting to become a joke in the 90s laugh it off now, like fans did when they saw Chris Jericho after a NBA game.

People sadly remark that Chris Jericho is stuck doing lousy backyard wrestling now.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Of course, there's plenty of people who are absolutely convinced Cornette doesn't even actually hate AEW, as much as he's lost himself in his role of "HEEL MANAGER" and is fully aware that by shitting on it he can draw attention from its fans and remain "relevant" in modern wrestling. So he's overselling all of his opinions and deliberately trolling AEW fans. The fact that his hate for WWE is somewhat passive ("I find this boring and thus don't really watch") is different from his hate for AEW ("This enrages me and therefore I will watch all of it to find things to make fun of") comes across like a bit of a work.

He shits relentlessly on some WWE stuff with as much vitriol. The whole Fiend storyline he'd taken the piss out of.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Either way, the real problem isn't Cornette himself as much as his fans who aggressively take his gospel and preach it to anyone who'll listen, treating his every word like dogma, using all of his pet insults and nicknames as if it makes them sound clever, and generally coming across like parrots. It's the same reason I generally loathe political discussion of all kinds online - most of the people talking are just repeating soundbites they barely understand but which they've internalized because "my side" needs to win.

Most of his "pet insults" are slight plays on words that other people are going to gravitate towards, unless you honestly believe nobody else but Jim Cornette could have thought up "Dork Order" despite the fact "the Dork Knight" has been used as a riff for decades. Other remarks are just damn catchy, like Bank-Addicted Drug Robber, or descriptive like Pockets.

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wwinterj25 posted...

I'm jealous. After watching wrestling for around 25 years I've never went to a live show. I plan to do so one day and AEW is a good call.

There is a lot going on in the UK scene, you should check out an Indy show. I'm sure AEW will run a UK tour at some point if momentum keeps building. Do the Khan's own a stadium in England? I'm pretty sure they own a football team there.

Also, combine what PO said with what I said already and you have my opinion on Cornette.

If you go Arv you should run in the ring and get famous, it's a great idea!

Some folk think Omega is a bad wrestler and Cornette is credible? Huh.

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IronBornCorps posted...

There is a lot going on in the UK scene, you should check out an Indy show. I'm sure AEW will run a UK tour at some point if momentum keeps building. Do the Khan's own a stadium in England? I'm pretty sure they own a football team there.

Shahid owns Fulham FC. Not sure about a stadium. I will keep my eye out for any indy events too.


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ParanoidObsessive posted...

Except it's not, but you're just refusing to acknowledge that because if you did you'd have to change the opinion you already decided was objectively correct and which is now set in stone.

Except every single article I saw while trying to vet the story either linked back to Cassidy or linked to a site that was just linking Cassidy's claim. You better fucking believe I was looking into that for a while when I saw it announced.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Just like Cornette!

Now you're just spewing nonsense.

Just like Meltzer!

ParanoidObsessive posted...

The fact that you tend to parrot back most of his pet insults whenever you're talking about specific people very strongly suggests that you've been influenced by his thinking a lot more dogmatically than you're willing to admit.

The fact that I didn't know those people were the people he used the nicknames for (except for Pockets) shows the reverse. And you're Meltzering me again, since you're pretending that there's an overabundance of nickname use when there's really not. In fact, the nicknames I use the most (like the Young Cucks and the Joke Brothers) aren't even ones coined by Jim nor ones that he uses (or, at least, I can't remember him using those -- other than the Hardly Boys, most of his Young Buck nicknames are meh... oh, and I just said "meh", I'm guessing you're going to try to attribute that to Jim, too! >_>)

ParanoidObsessive posted...

A lot of your confirmation bias is also you judging things based on what he's said. You've even openly admitted this previously. "Jim said this was bad, so I went to check it out." The problem is, that's absolutely going to color your perspective even if you don't realize/accept that.

Again, putting the cart before the horse. I started to listen to Cornette again BECAUSE I discovered AEW, not the other way around. I had already seen Jericho botching a match (which again, might have been a Top Flight match, or that could have come later, but Jericho is how I learned that AEW was a thing). I was flabbergasted to learn that AEW was something that was being shown on an actual network and had stars in it, which led me to try to find out more.

Before that, you *know* I had stopped watching wrestling for years and hadn't paid attention to anything (which is why you're Meltzering me again). I fell behind back in 2017 (or maybe 2018?) and then just stopped.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

You know, in exactly the same way you and Cornette are basically accusing Meltzer of using his opinion to brainwash dumb marks into believing Omega is better than he is just by constantly talking him up and repeating the praise all the time.

But of course, they're the marks. YOU'RE the one who has it all figured out. Only you and Saint Jim understand the true objective reality that is professional wrestling. Anyone who disagrees must clearly either be deluded, or in on the scam.

You and others keep trying to insist wrestling is the hottest it's ever been, despite the fact the fanbase is tiny. And, if I'm being completely honest, AEW is literally the one hobby I'm embarrassed to admit having, and 90% of it is somehow related to a handful of "wrestlers" where, even then, most of it comes back to a few guys who take so much pride in killing the wrestling industry that they wrote a book on it >_>

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Zeus posted...

...it was just then that I realized PO was a Dave Meltzer mark. The only question is whether he got indoctrinated by Meltzer into this nonsense, or sought out Meltzer because he was indoctrinated

Thanks for proving my point more eloquently than I ever could.
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Zeus posted...

You and others keep trying to insist wrestling is the hottest it's ever been, despite the fact the fanbase is tiny.

I mean it does have more talent these days so they are not wrong.


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IronBornCorps posted...

What Kenny matches have you seen?

This was years ago and it involved talent I didn't recognize. It was something I was encouraged to watch because of some hype.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Thanks for proving my point more eloquently than I ever could.

Considering you've already proved mine...

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wwinterj25 posted...

I mean it does have more talent these days so they are not wrong.

That's a ludicrous statement.

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Love me some AeW root beer

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Zeus posted...

That's a ludicrous statement.

It actually isn't. More exposure and open doors these days. This leads to more talent being spotted and more eyes on the products. Nostalgia is fun though.

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Zeus posted...

This was years ago and it involved talent I didn't recognize. It was something I was encouraged to watch because of some hype.

What was the most recent match of his you watched? It's really hard to judge someone as harshly as you have without really evaluating their work.

*gives 2 sweet to PO*

IronBornCorps posted...

What was the most recent match of his you watched? It's really hard to judge someone as harshly as you have without really evaluating their work.

Pac v Kenny on Dynamite (?) earlier this year, and the No-DQ four-way between him, Mox, Archer, and Kenta/Hideo. Then part of one of his PPV matches from the last year. I've seen parts of some of his other matches within the last year, but in general the most recent things I've watched have been his more recent work. The stuff I saw in the past was more NJPW

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