Current Events > C/D College is a scam

(+) Yeah! (+)

A liberal general education curriculum is absolutely a core part of the higher education experience and the purpose of universities is to help form intelligent and engaged citizens, not just worker bees.

Besides, if you chose not to go to a community college for the first two years and paid money for those uSeLeSs ClAsSeS that was your choice

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Also this mentality of durr I dont need to know the rivers in France hurrr only major classes seems, ime to be more common among, no surprise, stem types

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Also dont feed whoevers alt limpbizkit is. Just another anti-education rightwing troll

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TheShadowViper posted...

Many courses are actively designed to weed out students from being able to graduate in their chosen field. That is, you could have a course that has little to nothing to do with your degree and it could prevent you from graduating with that degree.

Uhh, no. The big gatekeeping courses are always within the major and designed to ensure you know enough to, eg move into upper division coursework

Oh_you_travel posted...

I majored in philosophy which was useless for getting a job. I then self-taught Engineering. Discuss

Youve never been to college ROD, and you didnt self-teach engineering. Discussed.

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Shezarr posted...

A liberal general education curriculum is absolutely a core part of the higher education experience and the purpose of universities is to help form intelligent and engaged citizens, not just worker bees.

Besides, if you chose not to go to a community college for the first two years and paid money for those uSeLeSs ClAsSeS that was your choice

This post ignores the fact that many kids coming out of high school aren't really given a choice and forced to go to into a large amount of debt in order to go to college even if there are better alternatives for their intended career choice.

Shezarr posted...

Also this mentality of durr I dont need to know the rivers in France hurrr only major classes seems, ime to be more common among, no surprise, stem types

And to what do you attribute your needless condescending attitude in this discussion? It's a legitimate concern for "STEM types" to learn stuff that's relevant to their intended careers instead of things they can easily look up on the internet in 30 seconds if necessary.

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Shezarr posted...

Youve never been to college ROD, and you didnt self-teach engineering. Discussed.

How you can determine over the internet that someone else isn't self taught? Or that they did/didn't go to college?

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CableZL posted...

This post ignores the fact that many kids coming out of high school aren't really given a choice and forced to go to into a large amount of debt in order to go to college even if there are better alternatives for their intended career choice.

Which kids arent given a choice about where they go to school? Nobody is forced to go straight to a 4 year and pay the full time (though it should be free anyways but thats a different issue)

CableZL posted...

And to what do you attribute your needless condescending attitude in this discussion? It's a legitimate concern for "STEM types" to learn stuff that's relevant to their intended careers instead of things they can easily look up on the internet in 30 seconds if necessary.

The relevant skills are how you learn research, cooperation, and just generally have a more thorough knowledge of the world in which you live. AGAIN, college is not a worker-producer, its a citizen-producer. And, good example for STEM types is the fact that many of them utterly lack sufficient oral and written communication skills. Many STEM companies hire majors outside STEM to fill those roles in a company because grads in the field are hopeless there

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CableZL posted...

Shezarr posted...

How you can determine over the internet that someone else isn't self taught? Or that they did/didn't go to college?

Its ROD, its a shitty new alt, and I see you havent been following his constant parade of inane topics lately. Engineering is also a broad fucking term and one cannot teach themselves sufficiently to replicate the university experience

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Shezarr posted...

Which kids arent given a choice about where they go to school? Nobody is forced to go straight to a 4 year and pay the full time (though it should be free anyways but thats a different issue)

Lots of kids are told repeatedly that they have to go to college if they want to be successful in life, shoe-horned into applying for schools, and applying for loans. Lots of kids are repeatedly told that if they drop out of college that they won't ever make anything of themselves. For many, college is presented as the thing that will make or break whether you make it in life.

For me personally, I was told that I have to go to college to make anything of myself, and if I didn't, that I would never be successful or be a contributing member of society. My mom sat by and forced me to fill out applications for schools I didn't want to go to. Also sat next to me every time I was filling out an aptitude test to fill out "nice" answers instead of just giving honest answers.

Shezarr posted...

The relevant skills are how you learn research, cooperation, and just generally have a more thorough knowledge of the world in which you live. AGAIN, college is not a worker-producer, its a citizen-producer. And, good example for STEM types is the fact that many of them utterly lack sufficient oral and written communication skills. Many STEM companies hire majors outside STEM to fill those roles in a company because grads in the field are hopeless there

Lacking sufficient oral and written communication skills isn't something that is only in STEM types. Lots of people, "STEM type" or not, also lack sufficient oral and written communication skills. I'm not sure why you're trying to limit that to STEM types as if STEM types are the only ones with that issue.

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Shezarr posted...

Its ROD, its a s***ty new alt, and I see you havent been following his constant parade of inane topics lately. Engineering is also a broad f***ing term and one cannot teach themselves sufficiently to replicate the university experience

Generally, people don't teach themselves engineering topics "to replicate the university experience." They do so in order to gain skills to get better jobs. I'm a self taught network engineer, and my reasoning for doing that had nothing to do with trying to emulate a university experience. It was about trying to get a better job that I was actually interested in.

And no, I generally don't track people's posting habits or try to physically or mentally document every topic a particular person posts.

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CableZL posted...

Lots of kids are told repeatedly that they have to go to college if they want to be successful in life, shoe-horned into applying for schools, and applying for loans. Lots of kids are repeatedly told that if they drop out of college that they won't ever make anything of themselves. For many, college is presented as the thing that will make or break whether you make it in life.

This has nothing to do with one being unable to attend a community college for the first two years.

CableZL posted...

Lacking sufficient oral and written communication skills isn't something that is only in STEM types. Lots of people, "STEM type" or not, also lack sufficient oral and written communication skills. I'm not sure why you're trying to limit that to STEM types as if STEM types are the only ones with that issue.

Because its notably common in stem, and again, they seem to be the most hostile toward learning anything outside muh cuhreer

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CableZL posted...

Generally, people don't teach themselves engineering topics "to replicate the university experience." They do so in order to gain skills to get better jobs. I'm a self taught network engineer, and my reasoning for doing that had nothing to do with trying to emulate a university experience. It was about trying to get a better job that I was actually interested in.

And again, engineering is a broad term. Sure some types like network engineering you can self-teach, but many industries are going to want someone with actual credentials not lol I read wikipedia (in his case, not yours).


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Shezarr posted...

This has nothing to do with one being unable to attend a community college for the first two years.

It has everything to do with not being shown better alternatives where they exist and being led to believe that it's your only option. For me, certifications would have been a better option than going to college.

Shezarr posted...

Because its notably common in stem, and again, they seem to be the most hostile toward learning anything outside muh cuhreer

Again, it's notably common in people in general, STEM or not. Unless you're going to try to tell me that most or all of the people who post on the internet and confuse your/you're, their/they're, etc. are STEM types.

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i mean yes and no.

You have to spend a lot of money and do well just to get an entry level decent job. STEM fields pay off better than other fields.

a 4 year Liberal arts degree is mostly useless.

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Shezarr posted...

And again, engineering is a broad term. Sure some types like network engineering you can self-teach, but many industries are going to want someone with actual credentials not lol I read wikipedia (in his case, not yours).

You can get actual credentials without going to college. In many engineering fields, there are certifications you can get by passing exams that mean more than the fact that you have a degree in that field.

In my example, if I had specifically gone to college for network administration/engineering, I would have graduated in 2007. In the year 2021, a lot of my knowledge gained from that degree would be outdated and I would have needed to go for certifications any way to keep my skills up to date.

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CableZL posted...

Unless you're going to try to tell me that most or all of the people who post on the internet and confuse your/you're, their/they're, etc. are STEM types.

Yes, this is clearly the extent of what im talking about here, confusing homophones.

Arcanine2009 posted...

a 4 year Liberal arts degree is mostly useless.

lmao why does every troll who says stupid shit like this have no idea what this term even means

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Meh wouldnt be making over 90k without college and would probably be working min wage retail. Wasn't a scam for what I needed.

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Shezarr posted...

Yes, this is clearly the extent of what im talking about here, confusing homophones.

Confusing homophones is just an example of lacking written communication skills. It wasn't meant to demonstrate the extent of your harping against STEM types' written/oral communication skills.

Your point is that it's notably common for STEM types to lack oral and written communication skills.

I countered that by pointing out that people of all types commonly demonstrate their lack of written communication skills for the world to see.

Lacking oral/written communication skills isn't something that is only notably common in STEM types. It's notably common in people in general.

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My English writing professor didn't point out that I was a "good reader" after I read a passage aloud because he had any idea that I was a STEM type.

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I got a good laugh that the guy defending university so passionately just so happened to work for a university. That should be a huge red flag to people right there lmao university is shit right now. My hats off to the guys in this thread who told the honest truth. Universities are basically no different than the fake gurus who show up on your youtube ads offering to change your life with their $997 e course except instead of suckering you for $997 they sucker you for 20k a year.

TrollTrace posted...

I got a good laugh that the guy defending university so passionately just so happened to work for a university. That should be a huge red flag to people right there lmao university is shit right now. My hats off to the guys in this thread who told the honest truth. Universities are basically no different than the fake gurus who show up on your youtube ads offering to change your life with their $997 e course except instead of suckering you for $997 they sucker you for 20k a year.

Dont you always talk about how much you hate your life because you dont have an education or job

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I definitely would have been happy with less gen ed classes if it meant just getting to the stuff I'm actually interested in learning

I find it difficult to dedicate time studying french or history when quantum mechanics is breathing down my neck

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limp-bizkit-89 posted...

this tells me you havent spent too much time in the real world, gramps

Swing and a miss. I earned my masters degree in 2000 and didnt start teaching until 2017. I had plenty of real world jobs in between

UT1999 posted...

bill maher say this,

lol

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C. Even if you get a "not useless" degree, it's unreasonably and outrageously expensive.

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america: college is a scam

also america: (gets duped by vaccine misinformation on facebook)

the cost of college is absolutely a scam but a lot of people could benefit from more education.

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RchHomieQuanChi posted...

C. Even if you get a "not useless" degree, it's unreasonably and outrageously expensive.

It absolutely is, and believe me when I say that the high price tag isnt finding its way to professors pockets (I make less than an average high school teacher)

Innovation is a priority for employers today.

• Nearly all employers surveyed (95%) say they give hiring preference to college graduates with skills that will enable them to contribute to innovation in the workplace.
• More than nine in ten agree that innovation is essential to their organizations continued success.

Employers recognize capacities that cut across majors as critical to a candidates potential for career success, and they view these skills as more important than a students choice of undergraduate major.

• Nearly all those surveyed (93%) agree, a candidates demonstrated capacity to think critically, communicate clearly, and solve complex problems is more important than their undergraduate major.
• More than nine in ten of those surveyed say it is important that those they hire demonstrate ethical judgment and integrity; intercultural skills; and the capacity for continued new learning.
• More than three in four employers say they want colleges to place more emphasis on helping students develop five key learning outcomes, including: critical thinking, complex problem-solving, written and oral communication, and applied knowledge in real-world settings.
• Employers endorse several educational practices as potentially helpful in preparing college students for workplace success. These include practices that require students to a) conduct research and use evidence-based analysis; b) gain in-depth knowledge in the major and analytic, problem solving, and communication skills; and c) apply their learning in real-world settings.

https://www.aacu.org/sites/default/files/files/LEAP/2013_EmployerSurvey.pdf

We make it a scam, I wish I would've went the military route or ROTC instead of just go to college out of high school. There are way better ways to pursue it, but parents and HS push 4-year college straight out of high school.

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Shezarr posted...

Uhh, no. The big gatekeeping courses are always within the major and designed to ensure you know enough to, eg move into upper division coursework

This is completely incorrect like most of your garbage. Calculus 2 is just one of many examples of courses specifically required for many STEM and business majors in order to weed out students. I tutored Calculus for over a year and ran into many people who could not pass that course no matter how many times they took it. These were people with outstanding grades in their actual major courses - including ones that involved calculus in their actual major.

Rigorous understanding of mathematical concepts is not required for application of those concepts in specific fields, yet it is required to pass that course.

TheShadowViper posted...

Shezarr posted...
This is completely incorrect like most of your garbage. Calculus 2 is just one of many examples of courses specifically required for many STEM and business majors in order to weed out students. I tutored Calculus for over a year and ran into many people who could not pass that course no matter how many times they took it. These were people with outstanding grades in their actual major courses - including ones that involved calculus in their actual major.

Rigorous understanding of mathematical concepts is not required for application of those concepts in specific fields, yet it is required to pass that course.

Calc 2 is fucking insane. The only integration technique I've had to pull out from that class was integration by parts, and that was for special relativity. Haven't touched any trig substitution or partial fraction integration.

Series expansion has come in handy though a couple of times

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I didn't take a single math class through undergrad or grad school.

D.

College graduates earn more than high school graduates long-term. It comes down to your major and how much debt you take on to do it.

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Derwood posted...

I didn't take a single math class through undergrad or grad school.

You're definitely an outlier then. I just checked, every single 4 year degree at my school requires at least 3 credit hours in mathematics

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Gwynevere posted...

You're definitely an outlier then. I just checked, every single 4 year degree at my school requires at least 3 credit hours in mathematics

I mean... at my school, a lot of majors only required up to Trigonometry, which you could easily test out of with I think a 25 on the math subsection of the ACT.

Derwood posted...

Both of those can be true. You might not have the connections to get a job without a degree while you're buddy might nepotize his way into success lol

Derwood posted...

you seem mad.

the college system is broken man, its not a personal attack on you.

how much does it cost to get educated in France? Germany? Canada? Now compare to US prices.

I get your point that you feel that college isnt meant to get you a job, but its not like colleges warn to students that some majors are useless in the job field or that even if they pick the right major they will still have issues finding employment unless they hit certain GPA and get an internship and make some connections; colleges know the students have the wrong idea and do little to dispel it.

I believe in education, and I believe in college, our population is dumb enough as-is, imagine how dumber itd be if less people went to college. I just feel the system is broken and needs reform

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Also, the amount of majors that are useless is vastly overstated

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Shezarr posted...

Also, the amount of majors that are useless is vastly overstated

Yeah. Lots of people seem to think that if you go to school for like, sociology and don't end up a literal sociologist, you've wasted your college experience.

Shezarr posted...

Also, the amount of majors that are useless is vastly overstated

youre right

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limp-bizkit-89 posted...

how much does it cost to get educated in France? Germany? Canada? Now compare to US prices.

Now compare the share of the population that actually gets a degree (The US is higher) and the incomes they earn (The US is MUCH higher).

College graduates pretending they've been "scammed" is the left-wing version of rich people begging for tax cuts. It's all so embarrassing.