Current Events > Transgender Weightlifter To Compete In Olympics on New Zealand Women's Team

(+) Yeah! (+)

DemonBuffet posted...

How about we just do away with genders in sports altogether? Would people stop crying then if we let everyone participate based on athleticism and not sex/gender identity?

That won't work because people will just complain that a certain gender always wins certain events and eventually the other gender will just stop competing entirely at that event which will shatter the dreams of potential future competitors. "There's no point training for the 200m Gladys because men have always won that event for the past 3 Olympics. How about Gymnastics?"

The only way around it is to create a third competing group for transgenders, maybe a fourth depending on which direction one has transitioned. It's going to get messy no matter what happens, it's not fair to the individuals but events should be governed by starting gender not what they currently identify as. Because men's starter bodies are better for some things and womens starters at others.

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DemonBuffet posted...

How about we just do away with genders in sports altogether? Would people stop crying then if we let everyone participate based on athleticism and not sex/gender identity?

Male and female biology is just too different. Heck even the biology between a black man and a white man is different. I believe black people biologically have denser bones. Thats just the way it is.

They already put women and men together in sports/games where physicality doesnt give advantage. I think women can drive in F1 if shes good enough. Darts and chess etc have women and men competing together.


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All these countries loading up on ringers

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She probably won't take first place at the true Olympic level, she probably won't even be top 3. If I recall correctly, Laurell was only in the 50th percentile for competitive lifting before she was able to identify and begin transitioning.

The top level female power lifters are absolute monsters in terms of strength and genetics, they will very likely still "dominate" Laurell.

That being said, MtF athletes are still at an unfair advantage to their cis female competition. Even though bone density and muscle mass will decrease from transition, the MtF athlete will still have an overall larger frame, which means they will always be able to build more muscle than cis women before reaching their genetic limit.

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How the hell is post 43 still up?

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Perascamin posted...

She probably won't take first place at the true Olympic level, she probably won't even be top 3. If I recall correctly, Laurell was only in the 50th percentile for competitive lifting before she was able to identify and begin transitioning.

The top level female power lifters are absolute monsters in terms of strength and genetics, they will very likely still "dominate" Laurell.

That being said, MtF athletes are still at an unfair advantage to their cis female competition. Even though bone density and muscle mass will decrease from transition, the MtF athlete will still have an overall larger frame, which means they will always be able to build more muscle than cis women before reaching their genetic limit.

Citations needed. Like. A few dozen. Especially for larger frame bullshit.

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BarbaricAvatar posted...

The only way around it is to create a third competing group for transgenders, maybe a fourth depending on which direction one has transitioned.

This really is the only fair way to do it. Probably won't happen because nobody wants to hurt anyone's feelings.

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joe40001 posted...

"Anybody suggesting MtF competitors have an edge is just lying to themselves, any minor advantage won't show up in high level of competitions! Who cares if a few teen girls lose out on scholarships or first place, it's an even playing field. You know how we know that? The Olympics lets MtF transgenders compete and we haven't seen an influx of MtF competitors!

Aside from maybe testosterone, males and females are biologically identical and so a MtF competitor is not going to have ANY unfair advantage"
/s

What's the difference between a fair advantage and an unfair advantage?

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Tyranthraxus posted...

What's the difference between a fair advantage and an unfair advantage?

In tetris, the fast tap method is considered a fair advantage because in theory, anyone in the top ~20% of all global players could learn to do it consistently and reliably if they spent thousands of hours practicing it.

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DemonBuffet posted...

How about we just do away with genders in sports altogether? Would people stop crying then if we let everyone participate based on athleticism and not sex/gender identity?

This. It needs to happen. Would love to see Lebron just jamming on some 5'9" WNBA chick all game long.

PesticideDream posted...

This. It needs to happen. Would love to see Lebron just jamming on some 5'9" WNBA chick all game long.

If you had pro/reg leagues you could just combine the genders and it would balance out eventually. Means this scenario wouldn't happen though.

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gunplagirl posted...

How the hell is post 43 still up?

Is that South Park?

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Cobra1010 posted...

I believe black people biologically have denser bones. Thats just the way it is.

Black people on average have higher bone density, muscle mass, and a lower torso to limb ratio compared to other races.

Still a bit of an error: the white men in pro sports are better athletes than 99% of black men

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Tyranthraxus posted...

What's the difference between a fair advantage and an unfair advantage?

A fair advantage is one obtained through practice and effort.

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joe40001 posted...

A fair advantage is one obtained through practice and effort.

So then should we ban people who have had laser eye surgery at Olympic shooting sports?

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Tyranthraxus posted...

So then should we ban people who have had laser eye surgery at Olympic shooting sports?

That restores normal vision.

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joe40001 posted...

That restores normal vision.

You can get 20/10 vision with LASIK. Even if you don't use glasses or contacts you can probably benefit from LASIK.

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joe40001 posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

So then should we ban people who have had laser eye surgery at Olympic shooting sports?

That restores normal vision.

Nice.
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joe40001 posted...

That restores normal vision.

this is a loaded fucking post even if you don't realize it

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gunplagirl posted...

Citations needed. Like. A few dozen. Especially for larger frame bullshit.

No, I won't be doing that because everytime proof is provided to you, you don't care. I get your passion for this topic Gunpla.

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great news for the trans community. can't wait for hubbard to destroy all the records

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LarryFitzgerald posted...

ROFL

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Tyranthraxus posted...

You can get 20/10 vision with LASIK. Even if you don't use glasses or contacts you can probably benefit from LASIK.

And anytime there have been people using doping or other things to give themselves unfair advantages it's been against the rules. I'd imagine giving somebody super laser vision or something would also be against the rules if it ever came up.

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joe40001 posted...

A fair advantage is one obtained through practice and effort.

So you agree that Michael Phelps naturally producing half as much lactic acid in his muscles as others is an unfair advantage.

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Gunplagirl basically just shows up to these topics to yell at people. I really wish she could calm down. Instead, she tries to ruin any and all discussion. Like you'd hope that a trans person could bring some insight, but damn near everything she says is some sort of emotional vitriol.

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Is joe trying to imply LASIK gives people laser vision?

EDIT: Ah I see, joe's implying that LASIK is a "reset to normal" without a hint of irony or realization.

TommyG663513 posted...

I really wish she could calm down. Instead, she tries to ruin any and all discussion.

Just because it's not what you want to hear, doesn't mean it's "ruining the discussion".

Y'know what? You should tell her to smile more, because she'd be prettier.

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Good luck to her

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Hey remember how throughout the 1800s and much of the 1900s, if a woman spoke up against mistreatment she'd get institutionalized by men for clearly being insane?

CE loves that classic misogynist trope.

Edit: also watch everyone ignore the Michael Phelps advantage, especially with how many of them were in favor of Caster Semenya being ruled against for being intersex and mandated to use medicine to reduce her skill level.

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CyricZ posted...

Just because it's not what you want to hear, doesn't mean it's "ruining the discussion".

Y'know what? You should tell her to smile more, because she'd be prettier.

Her screaming at people and yelling bigot absolutely ruins discussion. She could be a great source of information, but she is way more interested in shaming people.

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joe40001 posted...

And anytime there have been people using doping or other things to give themselves unfair advantages it's been against the rules. I'd imagine giving somebody super laser vision or something would also be against the rules if it ever came up.

Okay well it's not. And it's not "super" vision. It's just better than normal. It's a popular trait among jet fighter pilots.


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TommyG663513 posted...

Her screaming at people and yelling bigot absolutely ruins discussion. She could be a great source of information, but she is way more interested in shaming people.

That is because she has no info. Her beliefs have a weak foundation

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TommyG663513 posted...

Her screaming at people and yelling bigot absolutely ruins discussion.

How can you tell she's screaming? Classic way is all caps speech which she hasn't used.

She also hasn't called a single person "bigot" in this topic.

But keep projecting.

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You know who really knows what being discriminated against is like? Cishet white guys on the internet.

Maybe don't post bs on your account that's said there's such thing as female privilege.

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People that are supporting this dont understand the natural advantages that men have over women. Its incredibly unfair.

Being against this doesnt make you anti-trans or bigoted, and anyone who thinks so needs to go back to Twitter, btw.


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Samurontai posted...

Being against this doesnt make you anti-trans or bigoted, and anyone who thinks so needs to go back to Twitter, btw.

^

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Samurontai posted...

People that are supporting this dont understand the natural advantages that men have over women. Its incredibly unfair.

By all means, present the evidence that trans women have an unfair advantage.

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CyricZ posted...

By all means, present the evidence that trans women have an unfair advantage.

People have and you've ignored it everytime

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Dathrowed1 posted...

People have and you've ignored it everytime

All you've presented is specific physical advantages. You've never prove they were unfair.

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CyricZ posted...

By all means, present the evidence that trans women have an unfair advantage.

Unless youre transitioning at a young age, and use hormone blockers before so, you will always have a natural advantage over any cis woman

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/02/200205132404.htm

Heres an article. Youre basically asking me for evidence that the sun is hot. Theres no way you actually believe that men do not have a natural advantage in regards to muscle mass and bone density than women do.

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CyricZ posted...

All you've presented is specific physical advantages. You've never prove they were unfair.

How is it not unfair? If I were to transition tomorrow, Id be able to achieve more than probably any women could with less than half the effort.

its incredibly advantageous and unfair, because as a male, I have a number of factors working in my favor that would allow me to outperform any female I would compete against

This isnt the time to pick and choose your sciences. Leave that for the Trump supporters

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Samurontai posted...

How is it not unfair? If I were to transition tomorrow, Id be able to achieve more than probably any women could with less than half the effort.

I don't believe that's how transitioning works.

Also you really think you can best an Olympics worthy woman just because you're a man?

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How does punching strength determine who's a better weightlifter?

Samurontai posted...

If I were to transition tomorrow, Id be able to achieve more than probably any women could with less than half the effort.

You have absolutely zero proof of this.

Umbreon posted...

Also you really think you can best an Olympics worthy woman just because you're a man?

Just like how Cartman won the Paralympics easily in that one South Park episode.

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Like I'm not denying the physical differences between males and females. A trans woman athlete goes through required efforts to mitigate those advantages.

And ultimately there's no proof that what advantages left over are "unfair", apart from peoples' fee-fees.

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^ this guy cant be serious.

is trolling allowed now?

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gatorsPENSbucs posted...

^ this guy cant be serious.

is trolling allowed now?

The fact that you haven't been banned answers that question.

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CyricZ posted...

The fact that you haven't banned answers that question.

gatorsPENSbucs posted...

^ this guy cant be serious.

is trolling allowed now?

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CyricZ posted...

A trans woman athlete goes through required efforts to mitigate those advantages.

Such as having testosterone ranges still 4x above the max levels of "ciswomen"

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Dathrowed1 posted...

Such as having testosterone ranges still 4x above the max levels of "ciswomen"

You were doing better trying to prove muscles than hormones equating to an unfair advantage.

Also why put cis women in quotes?

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Tyranthraxus posted...

What's the difference between a fair advantage and an unfair advantage?

a fair advantage is one that doesn't fall foul of the classification that is intended to divisionalize a class of people, an unfair advantage is one that does.

being tall in basketball is a fair advantage

being 220lbs in the lightweight boxing division is an unfair advantage

we don't have womens sport because we're trying to protect gender

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