Current Events > Diet/workout experts - does protein really make a difference?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Been working out for close to 2 months. I've seen some change but I'd like to accelerate that more.

I keep my calorie intake down to 1400 a day. My goal is to look overall more fit. Not a body builder but better toned overall. I have a belly, would like to remove that, maybe have abs. Currently weigh 140 lbs (I'm 5'8).

However my protein intake is pretty lacking. Does this really make a difference? Is the man next door gonna have better muscles because he intakes 100g of protein a day, vs the man who intakes 20g? My brain can't comprehend better results just because you eat a certain thing, but I'm also kind of a dumbass.

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Yes
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Yes. Its key to growing muscle.

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Protein helps repair muscle after the tears from a workout. Its very necessary. 1.5g per pound of body weight is a good amount iirc.

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jon1012 posted...

Protein helps repair muscle after the tears from a workout. Its very necessary. 1.5g per pound of body weight is a good amount iirc.

damn seems near impossible to get that much protein, especially with a 1400 calorie cap

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In terms of body improvement its the one macro that really matters. Its what is used for rebuilding and growing muscles.

Current research suggests you should aim for 0.6-0.8 grams per lb of bodyweight (research also suggests anything above 1g per lb is redundant). So in your case at least 85grams.

This is why peopke take protein shakes. You can take in 70 extra grams of protein and it will only cost you like 200 calories.

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If you read any post in this topic read mine.

When you're trying to build muscle, you need .8g of protein per pound of bodyweight MAX for optimal muscle growth. You can have more protein than that but studies don't show there being any benefit to consuming more than that in a single day.

So for someone at your weight, you would need 112g of protein per day in order to build and retain muscle.

1400 calories is awful low, TC. Are you a man? Because if you were a woman, 1400 would be a good weight loss target for the average woman, but men are built different.

You probably need to be eating more like 1650-1750 calories a day and that would probably be near the lowest amount you need and still lose 1lb-1.5lb/week. Men can deal with a ~1000 calorie deficit/day and still be pretty well off nutritionally, but that's for extreme dieting/cutting. It's not recommended as something for regular people to do.

You can be much happier and lose weight more slowly with a ~500-700 calorie deficit.

If you want abs, you need to go buy a tape measure for your body, a scale, and start tracking your calories and weight inside a book or app every single day. Also do lots of cardio. Yes resistance training is great but it's not burning as many calories as cardio.

Doesn't have to be running! Do an elliptical. Stair climber. Incline walking on the treadmill. REGULAR ASS WALKING IT DOESNT MATTER just get your heart rate up for 150 minutes a week MINIMUM and you will really start to lose excess weight.

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pojr posted...

damn seems near impossible to get that much protein, especially with a 1400 calorie cap

because thats an insane number. its closer to .3-.4 per pound of body weight

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Also aim to consume 5 meals/snacks a day with at least 20g protein for optimal muscle growth

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ultimate reaver posted...

because thats an insane number. its closer to .3-.4 per pound of body weight

*.6-.8 for muscle building. Your figure is like what thr body needs minimum.

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I think that's one of the few things that aren't really contested in the world of muscle building, that proteins are an important building block. 1400 Calories per day seems pretty low...but it all depends on your goals and such.

but if your overall goal is to "become more fit", I wouldn't worry too much. It doesn't seem very specific or complicated so just eat healthy and workout how you want.

Once you have more specific goals in mind, you may need to take a closer look at how and what you eat and how you exercise.

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Muscle growth feeds off protein. But you really need to work out hard in the gym before you can justify significant protein intake, its a two way street in that regard.

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Perascamin posted...

If you read any post in this topic read mine.

When you're trying to build muscle, you need .8g of protein per pound of bodyweight MAX for optimal muscle growth. You can have more protein than that but studies don't show there being any benefit to consuming more than that in a single day.

So for someone at your weight, you would need 112g of protein per day in order to build and retain muscle.

1400 calories is awful low, TC. Are you a man? Because if you were a woman, 1400 would be a good weight loss target for the average woman, but men are built different.

You probably need to be eating more like 1650-1750 calories a day and that would probably be near the lowest amount you need and still lose 1lb-1.5lb/week. Men can deal with a ~1000 calorie deficit/day and still be pretty well off nutritionally, but that's for extreme dieting/cutting. It's not recommended as something for regular people to do.

You can be much happier and lose weight more slowly with a ~500-700 calorie deficit.

If you want abs, you need to go buy a tape measure for your body, a scale, and start tracking your calories and weight inside a book or app every single day. Also do lots of cardio. Yes resistance training is great but it's not burning as many calories as cardio.

Doesn't have to be running! Do an elliptical. Stair climber. Incline walking on the treadmill. REGULAR ASS WALKING IT DOESNT MATTER just get your heart rate up for 150 minutes a week MINIMUM and you will really start to lose excess weight.

this is some good shit, thank you

question. so i'm quite uneducated when it comes to diet and exercise. i do have low metabolism, so that was why my calorie intake has been so low. used to weigh 180 lbs but lost a lot of weight over the last year from intaking 1400 a day. keep in mind, i didnt diet at all (until 2 months ago, after losing the weight). since i have low metabolism and didn't excersize originally, does that explain how i got away with doing 1400 a day? i ask because i would hate to bump it up to 1600 or 1700 and get fat again

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TC for real .8g/lb of bodyweight is all you need. But on 1400 calories you are very likely crash dieting and you're going to lose muscle on that low of a calorie intake regardless if you are a male.

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pojr posted...

I have a belly, would like to remove that, maybe have abs. Currently weigh 140 lbs (I'm 5'8).

i'm shorter than you and weigh 146~ and am aiming for 154/70kg.

if anything i'd say you're "under weight" for your height. what makes a body look especially "toned" is body symmetry. since you have a belly means you probably have underdeveloped muscles on your body and turning the fat into muscles on a healthy diet is probably far more fun than living on 1400 calories a day while working out.

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Perascamin posted...

TC for real .8g/lb of bodyweight is all you need. But on 1400 calories you are very likely crash dieting and you're going to lose muscle on that low of a calorie intake regardless if you are a male.

i'd love to increase my intake, i love food. but im afraid to increase it, what if i get fat again? maybe thats an irrational fear lol. but maybe i should increase it and see what happens. i do weigh myself every month, so if something seems wrong i can change it

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AsucaHayashi posted...

i'm shorter than you and weigh 146~ and am aiming for 154/70kg.

if anything i'd say you're "under weight" for your height. what makes a body look especially "toned" is body symmetry. since you have a belly means you probably have underdeveloped muscles on your body and turning the fat into muscles on a healthy diet is probably far more fun than living on 1400 calories a day while working out.

lets talk about metabolism for a second. maybe i dont actually know what metabolism is, but maybe you have better metabolism than i do. i would hate to intake the exact same amount of calories as you and weigh 200 pounds. maybe that is an idiotic thing to say but i am super uneducated on this subject lol.

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pojr posted...

this is some good shit, thank you

question. so i'm quite uneducated when it comes to diet and exercise. i do have low metabolism, so that was why my calorie intake has been so low. used to weigh 180 lbs but lost a lot of weight over the last year from intaking 1400 a day. keep in mind, i didnt diet at all (until 2 months ago, after losing the weight). since i have low metabolism and didn't excersize originally, does that explain how i got away with doing 1400 a day? i ask because i would hate to bump it up to 1600 or 1700 and get fat again

Think about it this way.

You take two people, same height. One weighs 250 lbs, the other weighs 200 lbs. Your body tries to maintain itself, so it produces ghrelin(I'm hungry hormone) and Leptin(I'm full hormone) at appropriate levels. If they have the same activity level, the heavier person almost ALWAYS has a higher metabolism because it's taking more energy to feed 250lbs of mass rather than 200lbs.

You're not going to get fat on 1700 calories a day. The average American consumes 2600 calories a day, and they're fat. So you on 1700? It's 900 less than average. You won't be fat on 1700. Math solves all problems.

And if you went strict 1400/day for weeks on end, your body will slow down and adjust. You'll have lower testosterone levels, lower sex drive, and probably less energy in general. Try to switch it up. Most people will do like 700 calorie deficit during the weekdays and then a 300 calorie deficit on the weekends so they can have fun.

So what I'd recommend is 5 days you're on 1750 calories/112g protein minimum and then on your 2 off days, go have fun! Do 2050 calories/112g protein minimum. You NEED to have a healthy relationship with food, the scale, and YOURSELF if you want to get abs.

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I wouldn't say I'm an expert, but yes. Protein is essential for your body to recover from workouts, as is sleep

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I would go to bulk intake if I were you and cut the fat later, your dimensions lead me to believe that you probably have really small arms, chest, and posterior chain. Building those muscle groups is going to do far more for both your appearance and overall fitness level than losing your belly will. 1400 is far too low, youre not fat, you dont need to lose more weight, you need to recompose your body by building muscle. You cant really do that at a calorie deficit like that unless you have big stores of body fat to feed off of.

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Also you don't need to get fat as fuck "bulking" in order to build muscle so anytime you hear that bullshit shut it out immediately.

Studies show that between 10%-18% bodyfat is the sweet spot most people will find in order to build muscle optimally in men.

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masticatingman posted...

Muscle growth feeds off protein. But you really need to work out hard in the gym before you can justify significant protein intake, its a two way street in that regard.

i dont have an exact answer on the intensity, but i do feel like i've been bringing it and putting in 100%

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.8g-1g per lb of bodyweight is what my sports nutrition textbook shows as adequate protein intake for sound nutrition. There are 4 calories in 1g of protein, if you want to pack on 10lbs of muscle you would eat the same protein as a person who weighs 150llbs, which is 600 calories of protein per day. With you being an ectomorph you should eat lots of carbs and try to avoid too much fats. As an ectomorph there is NO restrictions on eating, that means you can workout and eat fast food 3x a day and your gains will still take time. Just how your body works. Consider yourself blessed to be an ectomorph and do not change anything. Every mesomorph pretty much goes endomorph after they finally get laid which is why most people work out. Trust me, do not mess with your metabolism unless you do not like seeing your dick when you pee.

DespondentDeity posted...

I would go to bulk intake if I were you and cut the fat later, your dimensions lead me to believe that you probably have really small arms, chest, and posterior chain. Building those muscle groups is going to do far more for both your appearance and overall fitness level than losing your belly will. 1400 is far too low, youre not fat, you dont need to lose more weight, you need to recompose your body by building muscle. You cant really do that at a calorie deficit like that unless you have big stores of body fat to feed off of.

that's the thing. i do have a gut, i do have some body fat in my arms, legs and so on. when wearing clothes i look skinny. but without clothes you can definitely see body fat. it sort of bothers me since my intake isnt that high, doesnt make sense. that is why i assume its bad metabolism. but again, im super uneducated, so dont quote me on that.

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Perascamin posted...

Also you don't need to get fat as fuck "bulking" in order to build muscle so anytime you hear that bullshit shut it out immediately.

Im not advocating this at all if thats what youre implying, Im advocating for not trying to build muscle at a calorie deficit. The lack of brain fog alone will be a tremendous boon in the gym, not to mention sustained higher energy levels.

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TrollTrace posted...

.8g-1g per lb of bodyweight is what my sports nutrition textbook shows as adequate protein intake for sound nutrition. There are 4 calories in 1g of protein, if you want to pack on 10lbs of muscle you would eat the same protein as a person who weighs 150llbs, which is 600 calories of protein per day. With you being an ectomorph you should eat lots of carbs and try to avoid too much fats. As an ectomorph there is NO restrictions on eating, that means you can workout and eat fast food 3x a day and your gains will still take time. Just how your body works. Consider yourself blessed to be an ectomorph and do not change anything. Every mesomorph pretty much goes endomorph after they finally get laid which is why most people work out. Trust me, do not mess with your metabolism unless you do not like seeing your dick when you pee.

just for the record, i am not a ectomorph. i used to weigh 180 lbs, definitely overweight. started losing weight when i dropped my calorie intake to 1400 a day.

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I thought the whole ecto/meso/endo thing was debunked

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pinky0926 posted...

I thought the whole ecto/meso/endo thing was debunked

i dont know tbh. i never heard of ectomorph, i googled it before commenting on TrollTrace.

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I'm also quite sure the "differences" between metabolism levels are super minor. People place too much emphasis on their metabolism rather than calorie intake and/or level of exercise.

alright im gonna admit something, I use P90X. im afraid to admit it because i feel like people will try to convince me not to use it. but maybe thats a good thing if P90X is a bad option.

pistachio12 posted...

I'm also quite sure the "differences" between metabolism levels are super minor. People place too much emphasis on their metabolism rather than calorie intake and/or level of exercise.

is that so? you may be right, and i would love that. i do dislike that people blame metabolism for stuff. that isn't what i'm trying to do here, just viewing from my perspective.

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just wanted to say, i really do appreciate the advice Perascamin, DespondentDeity, AsucaHayashi and everyone else. i am current re-evaluating how many calories i should intake a day at my weight and will add more protein in there.

i meant to mention, on occasional days (once or twice a month, if even that) where I do cheat like hell. fast food, candy, whatever. usually when im with friends - and i dont keep track of those cheats (otherwise i do keep track of everything i eat), but just thought i'd mention it. again, afraid of getting fat lol.

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Yeah man you can definitely eat like 1750cal a day and still lose weight+maintain/build muscle for your current weight.

You need to get a body tape though and get your measurements on neck and waist so you can actually know where you're at. Knowing your bodyfat % is very important (abs start to show good at 12%)

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It does, but the supplement industry and gymbros supporting them, vastly overplay how much protein you actually need to drum up their sales. Like you are not even 150 lbs--I doubt you need more than 60-100g of protein a day

What do you eat TC, do get your caloric intake that low in a day?

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Yes. It's important. I'd say moreso for weight loss than gain. You can outright undo a lot of hard work if your protein intake is too low on a cut. When bulking, you'll at worst do slower progress or none.

Honestly, youve probably done a lot of damage by not eating enough protein while you were cutting like that. So you've probably lost some muscle as your overall weight went down since you weren't eating enough to maintain that muscle.

So at this point you might as well build up some muscle. You'll look better with your shirt off because of it. With that said, P90x is designed more for weight loss than muscle growth. While it's better than nothing, you'd probably get better results on literally any kind of weight lifting routine.

With all of this, I wouldn't worry about getting fat. Just look in a mirror. Take progress pics. Use tape measures, etc. You can always alter things if you don't like how it's headed. If you're paying attention, worst case scenario is that it'll take you an extra week or two to get you where you're going.

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Tag

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100g protein is only like 400 calories, but it also helps there's a greater thermic effect with protein, that it takes more energy to metabolize and rebuild than fat or carbohydrates, so protein calories effectively count less than other calories. Protein rich foods also tend to be more satiating, so you're less likely to overindulge in them too.

There's no such thing as eating too much protein. If you are eating 1400 cals and 100g of protein, then your total protein cals is 28%. (100g x 4cal/g = 400 cal; 400/1400=28)

Someone eating more calories with only 100g protein woiuld have a much lower % of their diet protein. So i always recomend more protein, at least 33% of calories. If you eat meat at every meal it should be easy to make this goal.

for anyone that wants to knows, heres my usual diet

Breakfast
2 breakfast sandwiches - egg whites, ham, cheese
Or I may buy instant brown maple sugar oatmeal - 3 packets

Lunch
Aldi Chunky Soup - chicken noodle

Dinner
Heavily varies, but sometimes:
Broccoli with a main course, sometimes a calzone, or stromboli, or hot pockets
2 breakfast sandwiches

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https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29405780/

Same workout, high protein put on 2kg of muscle, low protein put on 0.6kg or muscle

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pojr posted...

for anyone that wants to knows, heres my usual diet

Breakfast
2 breakfast sandwiches - egg whites, ham, cheese
Or I may buy instant brown maple sugar oatmeal - 3 packets

Lunch
Aldi Chunky Soup - chicken noodle

Dinner
Heavily varies, but sometimes:
Broccoli with a main course, sometimes a calzone, or stromboli, or hot pockets
2 breakfast sandwiches

Just add some meat to every meal and you'll put on a lot more mass

You'll also lose a lot less muscle. If you diet this hard without protein you'll lose muscle and become skinny-fat

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pojr posted...

for anyone that wants to knows, heres my usual diet

Breakfast
2 breakfast sandwiches - egg whites, ham, cheese
Or I may buy instant brown maple sugar oatmeal - 3 packets

Lunch
Aldi Chunky Soup - chicken noodle

Dinner
Heavily varies, but sometimes:
Broccoli with a main course, sometimes a calzone, or stromboli, or hot pockets
2 breakfast sandwiches

Get rid of the oatmeal; the sandwiches are fine.
Soup's no good; too many carbs and not enough protein. Eat some chicken and veggies or something. Add some rice/quinoa/noodles if you want.
Replace the stromboli etc with a piece of meat.

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140 lbs at 5 8 is really skinny, I would not try to lose anymore lbs. Lots of good advice in this topic already, but I would suggest getting a beginner workout routine for weightlifting 30 to 45 minutes a day, 20 minutes of cardio if you want, 5 days a week. Add a big protein shake into your diet and one more small meal of maybe 6 oz chicken breast/meat and some carb, and you will see a big improvement.

Your newbie gains will be crazy, dont be alarmed when you see the number on the scale go up, it is mostly muscle.

Im 5 9 and have been on a bulk/muscle gaining diet since mid April (3,000 calories, 330 g protein), and in 2 months Ive gone from 175 to 185 lbs and down from 17% body fat to 15%. Im lifting 6 days a week tho too.

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lots of great advice in this thread. with that said, seems like this is a smart move:

• increase my calorie intake from 1400 to 1600 (maybe more?)
• throw in more meat in my diet
• get rid of the shit, the stromboli, oatmeal, etc like @3PiesAndAFork said
• I'll add this as a point but it's actually a question - what's your guys take on protein powders or shakes?
• anyway, aim for 100g (perhaps more?) protein daily

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Just get gold standard protein

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I don't like protein powder personally. I'd rather get it naturally. That said, if you're struggling to get 90-100g of protein it can be good to bolster.


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Just wanted to say I believe 100% in the body types. There's way too much evidence. Look at the average joe that doesn't work out and has like 50-100 pounds of extra body fat. They virtually always have a wide frame and big wrists/ankles. Their metabolism is slow and if they aren't extremely strict they gain lots of body weight.

I'm pretty hard ectomorph super small 6 inch wrist and I had to eat like 4-5k cals a day for months to go from 160-190 pounds. I was literally sick from eating so much food. And that's being 6'2" tall. I couldn't be 100 pounds overweight if I wanted to because I wouldn't be able to stand eating that much.

150 pounds at 5'8 may or may not be ectomorph. If your wrist measurement is 7" or bigger as a male you aren't one.

3PiesAndAFork posted...

I don't like protein powder personally. I'd rather get it naturally. That said, if you're struggling to get 90-100g of protein it can be good to bolster.

This
But sometimes it's mentally difficult to shovel more lean protein into your mouth. Like for me, the thought of eating another grilled chicken breast every day is a no go. Instead I opt for the powders.

When you're looking for them btw, make sure to read the label. There are a ton with a bunch of extra crap in them that makes them taste delicious. Optimum Nutrition is probably the most popular basic okay tasting and reasonably priced brand. Flavors vary on whether they taste good or not imo so ask around. Tons of folks here have tried many of them.

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Demon1050 posted...

Just wanted to say I believe 100% in the body types. There's way too much evidence. Look at the average joe that doesn't work out and has like 50-100 pounds of extra body fat. They virtually always have a wide frame and big wrists/ankles. Their metabolism is slow and if they aren't extremely strict they gain lots of body weight.

I'm pretty hard ectomorph super small 6 inch wrist and I had to eat like 4-5k cals a day for months to go from 160-190 pounds. I was literally sick from eating so much food. And that's being 6'2" tall. I couldn't be 100 pounds overweight if I wanted to because I wouldn't be able to stand eating that much.

150 pounds at 5'8 may or may not be ectomorph. If your wrist measurement is 7" or bigger as a male you aren't one.

Clavicle length is a better way to determine body size. Arnolds wrists were relatively small but the rest of his frame was massive. One part being small doesn't mean the rest will follow suit.

If you're in a deficit, the first rule is "don't drink calories"

Protein shakes are just meat in drink form. The drink won't fill you up, and there's nothing special about it

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