Poll of the Day > FNAF creator Scott Cawthon retires following backlash over donations to Trump

(+) Yeah! (+)

Jen0125 posted...

I'm okay with people judging anyone who donated to Trump for any reason. Support is support.

I get that. I'm less trying to convince you and Zang that this dude is innocent as I am saying I'm unwilling to condemn the dude based on what evidence I've seen. As I said, if I see something more damning, I'm fully willing to throw this dude to the dogs.

Metalsonic66 posted...

I'm not outraged myself lol I've never played these games.

That quote definitely seems like an admission to me, though. He's not anti-gay, but he thinks the gays would be better off with Republicans in charge anyway.

I've never played them either lol

But I'm not convinced that's an admission of guilt. I think it's entirely plausible that the dude is just some conservative who is willing to look past a candidate's shortcomings if they support the same policies Cawthon does. His being a Christian is no indictment, either. Plenty of Christians are ardent supporters of LGBTQ causes and struggle to define their faith in light of their church's stance on LGBTQ issues. I'm not saying Cawthon is one of these people, merely pointing out that it's not so simple putting people into a box based on limited data.


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BlackScythe0 posted...

Trump was objectively awful and giving him money says something about you and your beliefs. People have every right to be upset with him.

Agreed, but what I'm saying is we don't know what Cawthon's specific beliefs are. Did he support banning trans people from the military because Trump did? I don't know. Did he support locking children in cages at the border and separating them from their parents? I don't know.

I'm admitting I'm ignorant, here. Don't take me to task for it unless you can provide me the information I'm seeking.

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Zangulus posted...

How about this, did he come out and apologize and claim ignorance (whether real or feigned), of their agendas towards non straight people? No, he remained unapologetic and then just up and quit. He's not guiltless in what they're accusing him of.

He's not, no. This is what the two-party system forces, though: Because both parties suck, everyone has to choose who to vote for based on whose perceived benefits outweigh the drawbacks. He's not deliberately trying to hurt LGBTQ people, he just cares more about the good he believes the GOP will do than about the harm they will do (or, more likely, believes the Dems will do more harm somehow because reasons). Those who vote and donate otherwise believe the opposite. The two-party system, unfortunately, doesn't really give people the opportunity to pick and choose which causes they want to support, especially given how many disgusting wastes of flesh consider anti-LGBTQ agendas to be a good thing and the subsequent prevalence of such agendas among more popular candidates

Now, I would agree that he should be apologizing. Even if it's a decision he stands by, apologizing to people that are hurt by that decision is the only reasonable thing to do. Otherwise, he's just denying the harm or indicating that he doesn't care about it, and that is definitely a dick move.

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A lot of companies donate to republicans.

Its interesting seeing some random people take hate for it and not others.

Far-Queue posted...

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2020-07-10-interplay-silent-on-earthworm-jim-developers-racist-homophobic-remarks

@Revelation34 ^ in regards to your PM.

Eh I didn't want to derail the thread. I'm sick of all of those people anyway and clear racism.
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BlackScythe0 posted...

How can you not get it? Trump was objectively awful and giving him money says something about you and your beliefs. People have every right to be upset with him.

And people have every right to be upset of someone donating to Biden. It goes both ways. A person donating to the side you hate does not give you the right to harass and threaten them. This is getting more ridiculous every day.

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blu posted...

A lot of companies donate to republicans.

Its interesting seeing some random people take hate for it and not others.

Much of that boils down to how directly it can be attributed to a single, recognizable person, and also how easy it is to boycott their products. The faceless CEO of a company that makes hundreds of thousands of different products is a lot harder to feel personal hatred for than the head of a tiny development team (or solo operation) that has made a handful of games. That's especially true when the head in question actually interacts with the product's fanbase and can therefore potentially be brought to account for the decision, as opposed to some billionaire sitting in an ivory tower whose secretary's secretary's secretary can hire somebody just to ignore you.

In practice, companies donate to the GOP because Republicans tend to give companies tax breaks. They couldn't care less one way or the other about gay rights or any such issues, it's strictly a bottom line thing for them, and it's very rare for lost business to hurt them more than being properly taxed would.

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Supporting the GOP is synonymous with supporting anti-LGBT sentiments. It is too fundamental to the party at this time, to state otherwise is unreasonable and insultingly naive.

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sull56ivan2010 posted...

A person donating to the side you hate does not give you the right to harass and threaten them.

It does not, no, but you do retain the right to hold them accountable for it. Harassment and threats cross the line, but demanding answers, refusing them business, and making their donations known to facilitate public pressure against those donations are all perfectly fair game.

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adjl posted...

It does not, no, but you do retain the right to hold them accountable for it. Harassment and threats cross the line, but demanding answers, refusing them business, and making their donations known to facilitate public pressure against those donations are all perfectly fair game.

Then don't make it a one sided affair like some people are doing right now. If you do, you're a hypocrite.

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sull56ivan2010 posted...

Then don't make it a one sided affair like some people are doing right now. If you do, you're a hypocrite.

You're a hypocrite if you don't criticize people for doing something you don't disagree with or believe is harmful?

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adjl posted...

You're a hypocrite if you don't criticize people for doing something you don't disagree with or believe is harmful?

Re-read what I said. Do not make it a one sided affair. If you make it one sided, you're a hypocrite.

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What even is the appeal of those game

you just wait for animatronics to startle you?

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Mead posted...

What even is the appeal of those game

you just wait for animatronics to startle you?

Hide from them I guess. I never played any of them but have the 2nd. The person I got it from thought it was the first one.
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sull56ivan2010 posted...

Re-read what I said. Do not make it a one sided affair. If you make it one sided, you're a hypocrite.

I did, and as far as I can tell, your position is "you're a hypocrite if you criticize people for donating to the GOP but not to the Dems," which is completely consistent with my reply. If you have a different point, I encourage you to elaborate to make it clearer.

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Mead posted...

What even is the appeal of those game

you just wait for animatronics to startle you?

I think you had to monitor multiple locations and animatronics to keep track of where they were, and they all had different behaviour patterns and would behave more erratically as the game progressed, so it's kind of stress inducing plus jump scares if you lose.

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adjl posted...

I did, and as far as I can tell, your position is "you're a hypocrite if you criticize people for donating to the GOP but not to the Dems," which is completely consistent with my reply. If you have a different point, I encourage you to elaborate to make it clearer.

This is about as clear as you're going to get

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It's really sad. While I personally don't like the games the FNAF fans won't be getting any more content or, worse, they'll get corporate-mandated schlock meant to cash in. It's always sad when a major player in the industry resigns regardless of the reason and it really sucks when that reason isn't even related to games.

On the plus side, Matpat won't have to do all that many more FNAF theories?

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sull56ivan2010 posted...

This is about as clear as you're going to get

... Does this mean my interpretation is correct, or that you just don't know how to communicate your actual point effectively?

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adjl posted...

... Does this mean my interpretation is correct, or that you just don't know how to communicate your actual point effectively?

You're confusing me.

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Can your point be summarized as "you're a hypocrite if you criticize people for donating to the GOP but not for donating to the Democrats"? Or is this incorrect?

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adjl posted...

Can your point be summarized as "you're a hypocrite if you criticize people for donating to the GOP but not for donating to the Democrats"? Or is this incorrect?

You're still confusing me. Are we even talking the same thing?

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Far-Queue posted...

Agreed, but what I'm saying is we don't know what Cawthon's specific beliefs are. Did he support banning trans people from the military because Trump did? I don't know. Did he support locking children in cages at the border and separating them from their parents? I don't know.

I'm admitting I'm ignorant, here. Don't take me to task for it unless you can provide me the information I'm seeking.

Why does it matter? When you say shit like that isn't a deal breaker you're supporting it.

sull56ivan2010 posted...

You're still confusing me. Are we even talking the same thing?

This is the post I'm supposed to re-read, correct?

sull56ivan2010 posted...

And people have every right to be upset of someone donating to Biden. It goes both ways. A person donating to the side you hate does not give you the right to harass and threaten them. This is getting more ridiculous every day.

Which was followed by:
sull56ivan2010 posted...

Then don't make it a one sided affair like some people are doing right now. If you do, you're a hypocrite.

I'm interpreting the point made by the combination of those two posts as "criticizing GOP donors without also criticizing Democratic donors is hypocritical." Is this correct?

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BlackScythe0 posted...

Why does it matter? When you say shit like that isn't a deal breaker you're supporting it.

I wouldn't necessarily say that it means you're supporting it (though giving money to people advancing such causes literally does support them, whether that's what you have in mind in making the donation or not), but it does mean you don't think it's a big deal, and it's very understandable that people for whom it is a matter of literal life and death would be angered by that.

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I have to agree with Far-Queue here. Unless there is clear proof he is against them, I cant say hes a piece of shit or anything Im not going to just throw him out because of assumptions

Because personally, Ive never seen any political figure whos stances matched mine perfectly. So in the end, if I vote, Im always going to be voting for someone who goes against at least a couple of my stances. It could be that he agrees with most of someones stance, but not everything (like the LGBTQ+ Community) I have no idea. But because Idk he exact views, I cant condemn him for that

Even in that Reddit post, it seems like hes. It against them. But Idk for sure

Zangulus posted...

He's actively against LGBTQA having rights.

Is there actual proof of this, or just assumptions based on who hes donated to?

lihlih posted...

Wow, the fact that people buy them reliably for him to make that many is just baffling.

People like them because of the lore behind it Which can be interesting, but also really confusing

Mead posted...

What even is the appeal of those game

you just wait for animatronics to startle you?

Depends on which game. In the earlier games, you have to make it through the night by surviving. You only have a limited amount of power. So, you can only use the camera, lights, and doors so much. Then you start learning about the kid who was attacked. There are some murdered children who killed by the purple man, and a puppet. Theres also a game where you work at the place where the animatronics are created and fixed. And one where you run your own pizzeria. And things get crazy. Plus more lore. And one where you use all the characters to fight like an RPG in turned based battles. While its a spin-off (I think), there is some lore and clues. I havent seen all the newest ones, though
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Like I said yesterday in a topic on CE:

It's kind of crazy for him to just call it quits like that, but he's probably made a fortune at this point and doesn't need the stress of getting death threats from violent lunatics. So even though I disliked the franchise and wanted to see it go, it's bullshit for it to happen like this.

But to expand on it, this is the culmination of things I've been warning about for around twenty years now. At one point, you'd use this kind of reaction to fringe activities. However, as radicals realized that this could be effectively employed as a tactic against the mainstream as well, it's increasingly been used in ways that had once been unthinkable. And it's emblematic of a larger trend against the very tenets of democracy where rather than try to convince people of their arguments, the far-left is focused on not letting arguments take place at all. And this isn't some special, one-off case. For years now, this has become the norm, with social media being used to direct people to attack donors. Bear in mind that these behaviors are the same thing we criticize when we see them happen in other nations.

What we're looking at is the death of democracy which, on the far-left, is being greeted with thunderous applause.

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Zeus posted...

Like I said yesterday in a topic on CE:

But to expand on it, this is the culmination of things I've been warning about for around twenty years now. At one point, you'd use this kind of reaction to fringe activities. However, as radicals realized that this could be effectively employed as a tactic against the mainstream as well, it's increasingly been used in ways that had once been unthinkable. And it's emblematic of a larger trend against the very tenets of democracy where rather than try to convince people of their arguments, the far-left is focused on not letting a discussion take place at all. And this isn't some special, one-off case. For years now, this has become the norm, with social media being used to direct people to attack donors, among other things. Bear in mind that these behaviors are the same thing we criticize when we see them happen in other nations.

What we're looking at is the death of democracy which, on the far-left, is being greeted with thunderous applause.

I don't even see why a discussion NEEDS to take place. The fact is that FNAF has been an influential piece of modern gaming and has tons of fans. If it got found out tomorrow that Rockstar was using the funds from GTA to fund drug cartels so they could live life like Montoya that would be freaking horrible; but it doesn't change that the games have been an influential piece of gaming history and, going forwards, any game would be a shell of its former self at best barring some extreme luck. You can like a piece of work without approving of what the author says/does otherwise. A loss like this, regardless of the reason, diminishes games as a whole.

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Zeus posted...

And it's emblematic of a larger trend against the very tenets of democracy where rather than try to convince people of their arguments, the far-left is focused on not letting a discussion take place at all.

What discussion do you think is worth having around the question of whether or not teachers should be allowed to inspect students' genitalia if they suspect the student is trans? Because that's the sort of thing some members of the GOP are pushing for, meaning that's what is being supported by donations to the GOP. I don't know about you, but I think that's worth criticizing, and I don't think there's much room to defend it.

There's a rather alarming trend of trying to characterize the left as shutting down all dissenting opinions, but that's really not what's happening at all. The left is trying to shut down opinions that are utter shit, and rather than defending their shit opinions, those holding them cry "censorship" and "slippery slopes" in a thinly-veiled effort to act like the problem is that their right to free speech is being violated, and not just that they have shit opinions. Sadly, people eat that right up and start clutching their pearls in terror that they could be next.

Unbridled9 posted...

You can like a piece of work without approving of what the author says/does otherwise.

You cannot, however, purchase a game (or otherwise consume or promote the media) without funding whatever the author chooses to do with their income. Some percentage of the price of every single copy of FNAF sold has been donated to the GOP. That's the simple, inescapable reality of supporting an author: you contributing to everything they do with their money, whether you like it or not.

Now, some of that sale price has also gone toward buying Cawthon a home, and feeding him and his children, and buying other video games for him and his children, and plenty of other non-GOP-related things. It's pretty uncommon for all of the profits from a piece of media to go toward a single cause (and when that does happen, it's typically explicitly stated for promotional purposes), so ultimately, you have to weigh your contribution to the cause you don't like against the contribution to stuff you do like. Nevertheless, though, financially supporting somebody means you are playing a role in whatever they are financially supporting. That's not something you can ever get away from.

Unbridled9 posted...

A loss like this, regardless of the reason, diminishes games as a whole.

It does, but pretty trivially. There are tens of thousands of games out there. Had FNAF never existed, people would have been just as entertained by something else. At this point, I don't even know of anything within the franchise that was coming down the pipes that has been scuttled by this decision to retire, let alone anything that gaming as a whole is truly worse off for not having. The market is huge: any void left will be filled so instantly that nobody will even notice.

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I would definitely retire if I ever had that much money at his age.

Better to live off on some island somewhere at this point.

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You cannot, however, purchase a game (or otherwise consume or promote the media) without funding whatever the author chooses to do with their income.

And what would you do about it? Restrict what a person can spend their income on? If you don't approve of what a person does you are free to not buy the game; but seeking ideological purity will result in you finding every game developer 'unacceptable' eventually. I disapprove of China and refuse to buy games I know have a link to the CCP but I would never even consider for a second saying they should stop making games. If you dislike what he does with the money you're free to not buy the games; but the people harassing him to the point where he quit... Unacceptable. Plain and simple.

At this point, I don't even know of anything within the franchise that was coming down the pipes that has been scuttled by this decision to retire, let alone anything that gaming as a whole is truly worse off for not having. The market is huge: any void left will be filled so instantly that nobody will even notice.

It's unlikely the company will let the franchise die simply because the creator is gone. FNAF will likely see a similar outcome to what happened to the Sims after EA bought them or Metal Gear. That is to say they'll likely churn out a bunch of schlocky corporate-mandated sequels to milk the fanbase and, if the franchise is lucky, it will either have such a bombastic failing or a slow withering death and be left inert. If it's unlucky you can expect them to try and scrub the past away then release a 'new and LGBT friendly' version that will be utterly devoid of anything of substinance and feel like it was made by a chart as they slap whatever new stuff on literally everything they can in a fit of mass-market spending.

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Unbridled9 posted...

If you dislike what he does with the money you're free to not buy the games; but the people harassing him to the point where he quit... Unacceptable. Plain and simple.

We agree there. Harassment, threats, and doxxing are not an acceptable response to this, under any circumstances. Not buying the games, openly criticizing him, and encouraging others to follow suit, however, are all fair game.

Unbridled9 posted...

It's unlikely the company will let the franchise die simply because the creator is gone.

The games are self-published, so the creator is the company, but I also wouldn't be surprised if somebody else buys the franchise to milk a bit more out of it.

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adjl posted...

I also wouldn't be surprised if somebody else buys the franchise to milk a bit more out of it.

He said he's going to name a successor, IIRC...
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Does anyone over the age of 14 or Youtubers care about FNAF? It's been long enough since the first game came out I figure most kids who liked it have grown up.

Cruddy_horse posted...

Does anyone over the age of 14 or Youtubers care about FNAF? It's been long enough since the first game came out I figure most kids who liked it have grown up.

Most people who liked the game mostly didnt cRe about the gameplay. Its the lore. Which apparently stills holds the interest of some older people, as well
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LinkPizza posted...

Most people who liked the game mostly didnt cRe about the gameplay. Its the lore. Which apparently stills holds the interest of some older people, as well

the lore is really good, and so is the merchandise... you know you scored big when you can bank merch

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